Pip structure for inverted rubbers.

I'm sure this information exists somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it, so I thought to post here in the hopes that nerds like me might have the answer.

My question is this - given 3 (maybe 4) pip attributes for an inverted rubber top sheet:

1. height (how tall the pip is i.e how high above the sponge does the top sheet sit)
2. width/radius (the basic size of the pip, i.e wider pips = lesser pips on the topsheet),
3. spacing (how far pips are from each other. i.e. bigger spacing = lesser pips on the topsheet)
4. tacky (sticky) <-- maybe?

How do these attributes/combination of attributes effect the throw, spin, control and possibly speed of the ball (close, mid and far ranges). I understand there are other factors that greatly effect the ball, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the basic science. Please share what you know, I've been obsessing over this for a while now!

Originally Posted by fais

I'm sure this information exists somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it, so I thought to post here in the hopes that nerds like me might have the answer.

My question is this - given 3 (maybe 4) pip attributes for an inverted rubber top sheet:

1. height (how tall the pip is i.e how high above the sponge does the top sheet sit)
2. width/radius (the basic size of the pip, i.e wider pips = lesser pips on the topsheet),
3. spacing (how far pips are from each other. i.e. bigger spacing = lesser pips on the topsheet)
4. tacky (sticky) <-- maybe?

How do these attributes/combination of attributes effect the throw, spin, control and possibly speed of the ball (close, mid and far ranges). I understand there are other factors that greatly effect the ball, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the basic science. Please share what you know, I've been obsessing over this for a while now!

Your questions cover quite a lot of interacting variables, but I think of it in the context of inverted topsheets basically being different variations of Short, Medium and Long pips that are turned upside-down. Just as SP's are better for closer to the table play, so to are inverted rubbers with larger pips (eg Tenergy 25), whereas something with thinner more flexible pips (Tenergy 05, Tenergy 19 etc etc) is better equipped for play further away from the table...just like medium and Long pip rubber are better than SP's away from the table (albeit likely with the use of a chop stroke rather than a drive as per SP's).

Originally Posted by fais

I'm sure this information exists somewhere, but I haven't been able to find it, so I thought to post here in the hopes that nerds like me might have the answer.

My question is this - given 3 (maybe 4) pip attributes for an inverted rubber top sheet:

1. height (how tall the pip is i.e how high above the sponge does the top sheet sit)
2. width/radius (the basic size of the pip, i.e wider pips = lesser pips on the topsheet),
3. spacing (how far pips are from each other. i.e. bigger spacing = lesser pips on the topsheet)
4. tacky (sticky) <-- maybe?

How do these attributes/combination of attributes effect the throw, spin, control and possibly speed of the ball (close, mid and far ranges). I understand there are other factors that greatly effect the ball, but I'm trying to wrap my head around the basic science. Please share what you know, I've been obsessing over this for a while now!

Your questions cover quite a lot of interacting variables, but I think of it in the context of inverted topsheets basically being different variations of Short, Medium and Long pips that are turned upside-down. Just as SP's are better for closer to the table play, so to are inverted rubbers with larger pips (eg Tenergy 25), whereas something with thinner more flexible pips (Tenergy 05, Tenergy 19 etc etc) is better equipped for play further away from the table...just like medium and Long pip rubber are generally thought to be better than SP's away from the table (albeit likely with the use of a chop stroke rather than a drive/topspin stroke as per SP's).

This post might answer some of your questions:

https://ttgearlab.wordpress.com/2017...nsion-rubbers/

Yeah igorponger! I have been posting that link for years and now someone else is paying attention!
The study is old but the physics hasn't changed.
However, it would be nice if that research was done again with modern cameras and modern TT equipment.

Originally Posted by davidjulian

I think more precise mathematical calculations are needed here.

You are kidding right!?
Would you be able to understand them? The uneducated "kids" wouldn't. They are still looking for the magic rubber , blade or booster that will make them better.
Would the study be ignored like that Tieffenbacher study has been for so many years?
It would be a lot of work and all the effort would be wasted as soon as the thread is off the front page.

Longer thinner pips would allow the top sheet to stretch more when brushing. A thinner top sheet would also allow the top sheet to stretch more. It is the snap back that causes extra spin in addition to the tangential paddle speed.
The difference between T05 and T25 was that the T25 pips were thicker so they didn't allow the top sheet to stretch as much so there was less spin. This assume the top sheets are made of the same material.
As far as the speed difference goes, it depends on how springy the pips are vs the sponge. I have no data on that.

Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

I am 90% sure that is a bot. davidjulian, are you a bot or a human?//exactly 5 posts, with very generic text

It's a bot and it's quite funny broken can't spot it.

so zylinder Shape doesn´t matter at all?

yes shape of the pips make a difference into the flexibility and spring affect too...
also the arranging of the pips in vertical or horizontal direction makes a difference as well in inverted not just in pips out...