Question about H3Neo

says MIA
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I see. Thanks sir🙌
There’s a lot new for me since it’ll be my very first time using Chinese rubber. I’ve always wanted to try h3 rubbers since it’s well known but because of the naming schemes and rubber coming in varieties I couldn’t decide myself what to get. I target the provincial cuz it’s smth between commercial and national and the cost is also pretty fair that it’s somewhere in the range of price that I could afford. I’ve ready some post and forums about h3 rubbers and I have to say I really find those useful. Should I get the commercial h3 neo and the Haifu booster( non-national) or should I just get the prov h3 neo BS. The first set(h3 neo commercial + Haifu booster) will cost almost the same as a single pair of h3 neo prov BS.
Any suggestion pls. Btw even if I do play, I’ll be able to just play about twice a week due to school and stuffs.
And what’s the difference between neo and non neo despite the one being factory boosted and the other not. Are they also different in sponge, topsheet quality, durability and so on.

It's definitely worth a try, and good to start with the all-time classic Chinese rubber that is H3, especially at the price. Keep it simple and get commercial H3 Neo to start off, it's a great rubber, famous and a best seller for a reason, and see how you like it before committing to BS, as I previously said. Try it as-is for several months, then if you feel so inclined to try to boost it after that, buy some booster later.

The difference between regular and Neo is just that, Neo is factory boosted, so a bit softer and easier to use, especially when transitioning from Euro/Japanese-style rubbers. They are not different in sponge, topsheet, quality, durability and so on.

 
says MIA
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Some people like H3, some don't. It depends on your pocket too. If you think about price at all, then I'd say, take H3 Neo commercial, possibly don't buy booster. Try the rubber, if you are sure you like it, buy booster and when done with the rubber, go up to provincial version. Here the opinions differ too. In my own experience, there is a significant difference between the commercial and provincial I played, so much so, that I consider them different rubbers, not just a result of quality control. Of course, that is my own conclusion, I imagine disagreable :) Anyways all what matters is whether you like it or not.
Exactly!

I remember you helped me a lot when I started experiencing with H3 and other Chinese rubbers.

 
says MIA
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Sry but i have to strongly disagree with several opinions mentioned in this thread. I would have stepped in earlier but i lacked the time to check the forum.
So here we go now.

1. Applying glue before booster:
As mentioned here and in several other posts on this site, glueing first do more damage than good. Glueing creates an uneven surface in which you will the booster to spread unevenly which will result is tremendous different outcomes everytime you boost and on every spot on your rubber. Especially if you boost with a product that is especially made for this purpose it makes no sense to think there is glue needed in the first place.
There are many more reasons not to do this, mentioned in posted thread.

2. Neo-version is a different rubber
That information is disproven by DHS itself. Topsheet and rubber are the same. The only difference is the tuning effect mentioned by several people here which helps using the rubber without booster straight out of the "box". If you are playing often and hard enough AND are not that sensitive about some changing characteristics you could play with it even without boosting it after some months but that highly depends on the player and how they play.
BS and OS on the other hand are different rubbers.

@Michael Zhuang: Your problem with the rubber itself seems to be definitly more of a problem with your technique/strength. And i can relate that especially on backhand. If you watch closely slowmotion backhand movement of Ma Long after 2019 you can see how hard and upwards he hits every backhand shot. That requires some serious training in many aspects of your game. I personally gave up on that, becaus the Hurricane 3 has a quite lower throw for a typical backhand rubber and i cant work with that, so i switched to Hurricane 8 boosted/Yasaka Rakza Z (last one thanks to several tips from players on this forum).
For FH it is much simpler to hit harder so it is easier to make use of such a rubber. I saw many player with the same experience as you had with this rubber, and everyone of them were hitting too weak as if they had a tensor on their FH. That will never work.

So before it escalates and nobody wanna read that, i put a stop here^^
I agree with you on everything except for #1 ; ) , many Chinese players do recommend to put a thin layer of glue before applying the booster in order to protect the topsheet and keep it from separating. You're right in saying that it can create an uneven booster experience if you're not careful but it can be done. Also, I'm not saying it's necessary to do this with every rubber, H3 (and other non-porous sponge Chinese tacking rubbers) does fine without a glue layer first because both its sponge and topsheet are strong and can handle a strong booster like Haifu from the get go, Tenergy and tensor rubbers not so much, since they're pretty fragile. Falco is much less aggressive than Chinese boosters but can still really mess the integrity of a fine rubber, with separation, bubbling...

 
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I have used all the hurricane, the neo type have a little booster, but the effect is not obvious, when you are used to using butterfly or European rubber, you will find it very difficult to adapt. My advice: you need to give him the booster' twice. You will feel strong spin and decent speed. Hope it can help you
 
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I agree with you on everything except for #1 ; ) , many Chinese players do recommend to put a thin layer of glue before applying the booster in order to protect the topsheet and keep it from separating. You're right in saying that it can create an uneven booster experience if you're not careful but it can be done. Also, I'm not saying it's necessary to do this with every rubber, H3 (and other non-porous sponge Chinese tacking rubbers) does fine without a glue layer first because both its sponge and topsheet are strong and can handle a strong booster like Haifu from the get go, Tenergy and tensor rubbers not so much, since they're pretty fragile. Falco is much less aggressive than Chinese boosters but can still really mess the integrity of a fine rubber, with separation, bubbling...

I recently started using H3N prov over past 1.5 months and I got new sheet of BS and I took the glue layer off but it was a real pain. Then boosted with 2 layers of seamoon directly onto sponge took few sessions to break in but after that has been playing beautifully!! It’s been 6 wks and doesn’t feel at all it needs a reboost anytime soon.

I do have a new sheet of OS which I’m itching to try and compare but my spare blade is completely different to my main so won’t give me fair comparison so I think when my BS is ready for reboost I will just boost the OS and use and compare. I am tempted in boosting on top of the glue layer as it was pain taking off but then it may not give me best comparison as BS I boosted on sponge but OS would be on glue!

 
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I agree with you on everything except for #1 ; ) , many Chinese players do recommend to put a thin layer of glue before applying the booster in order to protect the topsheet and keep it from separating. You're right in saying that it can create an uneven booster experience if you're not careful but it can be done. Also, I'm not saying it's necessary to do this with every rubber, H3 (and other non-porous sponge Chinese tacking rubbers) does fine without a glue layer first because both its sponge and topsheet are strong and can handle a strong booster like Haifu from the get go, Tenergy and tensor rubbers not so much, since they're pretty fragile. Falco is much less aggressive than Chinese boosters but can still really mess the integrity of a fine rubber, with separation, bubbling...

I really wish to see a flat surface after a "carefully brushed layer of glue". This will be impossible. You might be able to reduce uneven surfaces to a certain extent, but never completely. So why take this chance if you simply dont have to?
Either way there is no proven advantage of this layer of glue, so it doesnt matter what someone recommend. If there is a decent argument for it which is not disproven, i might listen but until then a recommendation is redundant.

To be clear my point to not glue first comes from my experience with OS only. BS might be more fragile, but even if that is the case, you can just apply the booster more carefully and thinner until you get to the same result.
Btw another huge disadvantage with more layers of glue would be that you might reach a point, where your rubber+glue+booster gets too thick. A measurement which is even taken in several amateur tournaments in my country and always taken in higher leagues.

 
says MIA
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I have used all the hurricane, the neo type have a little booster, but the effect is not obvious, when you are used to using butterfly or European rubber, you will find it very difficult to adapt. My advice: you need to give him the booster' twice. You will feel strong spin and decent speed. Hope it can help you
H3 doesn't work well for you without booster, but it works well unboosted for a lot of people, so OP should try it for himself unboosted first for a few month, then try it boosted so he can see what suits him best.

 
says MIA
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I recently started using H3N prov over past 1.5 months and I got new sheet of BS and I took the glue layer off but it was a real pain. Then boosted with 2 layers of seamoon directly onto sponge took few sessions to break in but after that has been playing beautifully!! It’s been 6 wks and doesn’t feel at all it needs a reboost anytime soon.

I do have a new sheet of OS which I’m itching to try and compare but my spare blade is completely different to my main so won’t give me fair comparison so I think when my BS is ready for reboost I will just boost the OS and use and compare. I am tempted in boosting on top of the glue layer as it was pain taking off but then it may not give me best comparison as BS I boosted on sponge but OS would be on glue!

Hey Dipak,

Do you like it better than your D09C ?

Glad you like the Harimoto ALC after our discussions. Is the Apolonia ZLC still your main blade ?

 
says MIA
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I really wish to see a flat surface after a "carefully brushed layer of glue". This will be impossible. You might be able to reduce uneven surfaces to a certain extent, but never completely. So why take this chance if you simply dont have to?
Either way there is no proven advantage of this layer of glue, so it doesnt matter what someone recommend. If there is a decent argument for it which is not disproven, i might listen but until then a recommendation is redundant.

To be clear my point to not glue first comes from my experience with OS only. BS might be more fragile, but even if that is the case, you can just apply the booster more carefully and thinner until you get to the same result.
Btw another huge disadvantage with more layers of glue would be that you might reach a point, where your rubber+glue+booster gets too thick. A measurement which is even taken in several amateur tournaments in my country and always taken in higher leagues.

If I follow your logic then I shouldn't listen to your recommendation/advice either! ; D

The decent argument is that for fragile rubbers, a glue layer first has proven to protect the topsheet, from separating, bubbling etc. This has happened to me and many others when boosting fragile rubbers straight, and not when I have put a glue layer first...

 
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Hey Dipak,

Do you like it better than your D09C ?

Glad you like the Harimoto ALC after our discussions. Is the Apolonia ZLC still your main blade ?

Hey buddy, yes I have to say I’m really enjoying H3N and yes I would say prefer over D09C. Shorter game and serves are easier to keep short, counters I would say better and a more controlled feeling.

im actually using Lin Gaoyuan ALC as my main blade and I have a Mizutani ZLC as spare which I got cheap to try. Apolonia I have given to team mate and Harimoto I actually found bit slow away from table so I sold it. I have to admit for my game I seem to find Lin Gaoyuan is perfect at moment it has what the other blades lacked for me. I could go into detail but I won’t lol…

so I’m loving LGY ALC with H3N provincial and D80. I only need to decide whether I prefer blue or orange sponge.

 
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Hey buddy, yes I have to say I’m really enjoying H3N and yes I would say prefer over D09C. Shorter game and serves are easier to keep short, counters I would say better and a more controlled feeling.

im actually using Lin Gaoyuan ALC as my main blade and I have a Mizutani ZLC as spare which I got cheap to try. Apolonia I have given to team mate and Harimoto I actually found bit slow away from table so I sold it. I have to admit for my game I seem to find Lin Gaoyuan is perfect at moment it has what the other blades lacked for me. I could go into detail but I won’t lol…

so I’m loving LGY ALC with H3N provincial and D80. I only need to decide whether I prefer blue or orange sponge.

Good Dipak, keep following what feels good for you!

You should have sold me your Apolonia ZLC! Lol, I could use it as backup to my beloved IF ZLC since they are the same blade.

 
says MIA
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Hey buddy, yes I have to say I’m really enjoying H3N and yes I would say prefer over D09C. Shorter game and serves are easier to keep short, counters I would say better and a more controlled feeling.

im actually using Lin Gaoyuan ALC as my main blade and I have a Mizutani ZLC as spare which I got cheap to try. Apolonia I have given to team mate and Harimoto I actually found bit slow away from table so I sold it. I have to admit for my game I seem to find Lin Gaoyuan is perfect at moment it has what the other blades lacked for me. I could go into detail but I won’t lol…

so I’m loving LGY ALC with H3N provincial and D80. I only need to decide whether I prefer blue or orange sponge.

Also which hardness of the H3N are you using?

 
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Also which hardness of the H3N are you using?

2.15 in 39 degrees. It’s what a Chinese player at my club uses and recommended. So far can’t complain.

my Apolonia is with a friend I haven’t sold it he’s borrowed it, I don’t think I will get back any time soon lol. Have u tried Apolonia before?
 
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says MIA
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2.15 in 39 degrees. It’s what a Chinese player at my club uses and recommended. So far can’t complain.

my Apolonia is with a friend I haven’t sold it he’s borrowed it, I don’t think I will get back any time soon lol. Have u tried Apolonia before?
Yes, and it was exactly like my IF ZLC. The player I swapped it with is very high level (France Top 300) and said the same about my blade vs. his Apolonia, no surprise there! : D

 
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Yes, and it was exactly like my IF ZLC. The player I swapped it with is very high level (France Top 300) and said the same about my blade vs. his Apolonia, no surprise there! : D

I found Apolonia to have better feeling than IF ZLC as did a high level coach at my club but it might have been just us but yes there not much difference between them.

 
says MIA
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I found Apolonia to have better feeling than IF ZLC as did a high level coach at my club but it might have been just us but yes there not much difference between them.
I don't think it was you guys, probably a difference in weight, balance or density between the 2 blades you tried, like you could find between any 2 IF ZLC or between any 2 Apolonias, Viscarias...

 
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If I follow your logic then I shouldn't listen to your recommendation/advice either! ; D

The decent argument is that for fragile rubbers, a glue layer first has proven to protect the topsheet, from separating, bubbling etc. This has happened to me and many others when boosting fragile rubbers straight, and not when I have put a glue layer first...

You dont need to listen to any recommendation^^
The difference here was that i gave the argument right away, while i had to seperatly ask for it. Many many user just say how to do things without any explanation at all, which is bothering me especially in cases that are far from being "common sense".

So to discuss your argument:
Brief explanation why the topsheet might get damaged from boosting.
Bubbling happens when the sponge gets seperated from the topsheet. So in detail - single pimples from the topsheet lose contact or their grip to the sponge. This can accure when the sponge gets expanded too hard, or afterwards when the you hit the ball. But the main reason stays the same.

To prevent that, the recommendation is to put a layer of glue between the sponge and the booster.
Correct me if i am wrong, but that just prevents partly the booster to get into the sponge and maybe slower. If that is the case, you can get the exact same result by applying thinner layers and/or more layers if needed, instead of dropping everything onto the sponge so you dont get a rubber tube instead of a slightly curled rubber.

And on top you have so many other issues with glueing first (as i have posted before), that i cant see the benefit here. At least not with the OS in my own experience and those from some other players. I mean in my case i boosted at least 5 Hurricanes (neo and non neo) with the layer and even way more (at least 15, though not all for myself^^) without the layer, and i have never accured any bubbling with these rubbers.

 
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You dont need to listen to any recommendation^^
The difference here was that i gave the argument right away, while i had to seperatly ask for it. Many many user just say how to do things without any explanation at all, which is bothering me especially in cases that are far from being "common sense".

So to discuss your argument:
Brief explanation why the topsheet might get damaged from boosting.
Bubbling happens when the sponge gets seperated from the topsheet. So in detail - single pimples from the topsheet lose contact or their grip to the sponge. This can accure when the sponge gets expanded too hard, or afterwards when the you hit the ball. But the main reason stays the same.

To prevent that, the recommendation is to put a layer of glue between the sponge and the booster.
Correct me if i am wrong, but that just prevents partly the booster to get into the sponge and maybe slower. If that is the case, you can get the exact same result by applying thinner layers and/or more layers if needed, instead of dropping everything onto the sponge so you dont get a rubber tube instead of a slightly curled rubber.

And on top you have so many other issues with glueing first (as i have posted before), that i cant see the benefit here. At least not with the OS in my own experience and those from some other players. I mean in my case i boosted at least 5 Hurricanes (neo and non neo) with the layer and even way more (at least 15, though not all for myself^^) without the layer, and i have never accured any bubbling with these rubbers.

i agree with everything you say.
For those however who insist on applying glue before booster, there IS a way to apply glue evenly but it is best done when you have several rubbers to do. There is a mini-foam roller available at any good paint & decorating place which is normally used for rolling oil-base paint onto cabinet doors. With one of these rollers one can apply a thin even layer of glue.

 
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i agree with everything you say.
For those however who insist on applying glue before booster, there IS a way to apply glue evenly but it is best done when you have several rubbers to do. There is a mini-foam roller available at any good paint & decorating place which is normally used for rolling oil-base paint onto cabinet doors. With one of these rollers one can apply a thin even layer of glue.

lol even I think this is overkill

 
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Regarding preboost glue and NEO, I’m going to put on my 2nd pieces of NEO tomorrow and done 3 or 4 non-NEO before. The NEOs are definitely more flexible and flatter after boosting the same amount (3.5-4gr, 3 very thin layers). Either there is a slight change in the sponge or the thin layer of glue helps. Or because of factory preboosting, the sponge has already been flattened out before. (Also the same 4gr is actually extra 4gr, explaining why it’s more flexible) I dont know. Or it’s just variances.

but generally speaking, the NEO is just easier to boost, so why not use it really. Price is the same.


Regarding latej’s thumb when removing glue, yes use thick layers of glue. But you may also use something like a spoon, the job will be much easier.
 
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