Manufacturer speed ratings vs Revspin ratings

Michael Zhuang · Feb 14, 2022

I know a lot of people dont like revspin ratings, because they tend to be exaggerated. But generally, I tend to think revspin gives you the right DIRECTIONAL idea of speed.

For example, if Clipper is 8.5, and Viscaria is 9.0, then generally revspin tends to be right about telling you Viscaria is faster than Clipper. Whether 0.5 difference is too much or too little is up for debate.

But I noticed that occasionally Revspin differs in opinion from the manufacturer rating. For example, TB ALC/Viscaria is rated 11.8 reaction on BTY website. It is rated 9.0 on Revspin. TB ZLC is rated lower at 11.7 on BTY website, but is rated way higher at 9.4 on Revspin.

Directionally, which do you trust more?

Lazer · Feb 14, 2022

Butterfly have pretty good ratings and I would definitely trust them over a site where anybody can give input… But you also have to understand the rating…

Cheers
L-zr

brokenball · Feb 14, 2022

All the ratings are bogus. When they report normal and tangential COR ratings from an independent lab, only then can you trust them.

Michael Zhuang · Feb 14, 2022

So in this case, should I believe that the TB ZLC is slower or faster than the TB ALC? BTY says slower, Revspin says faster.

IB66 · Feb 14, 2022

Take everything with a pinch of salt !!
Manufacturers info is marketing, but will be generally correct, no point in them claiming 'A' is faster than 'B' when it isn't. But their rating scale?????? And can WE actually tell that 8.25 is slower than 8,75???? Do they tell the
Rev spin / Personal reviews are even more unreliable as far as speed and spin ratings are concerned, especially if people put a number against a rating.
Don't get me wrong, I've done a few reviews in the past and had plenty to say about a rubbers characteristics, at best a 'ball park' opinion, everyone is different and tries out rubbers on different blades, in different conditions and so on. If I do comment these days I just try and keep it basic, high spin, fast, that sort of thing, Even when comparing a couple of rubbers it can be difficult because you are relying on your memory if not directly testing each rubber at the same time.

Zwill · Feb 14, 2022

So far the frequency of the blade seems to be the best way to tell how fast a blade will be just on its own. Obviously rubbers matter but also the total weight of the setup. A 80g and a 90g blade with the same rubbers will play somewhat differently even if the blades have almost the same frequency or speed.

I would take the manufacturer rating if I wanted to compare blades of a certain brand, but every manufacturer has their own BS rating system that are not comparable with eachother.

I wouldn't trust revspin ratings. But some of the comments can be useful there.

Lazer · Feb 14, 2022

Michael Zhuang said:
So in this case, should I believe that the TB ZLC is slower or faster than the TB ALC? BTY says slower, Revspin says faster.

I would believe BTY, but remember that wood is a live material and the rating is an average. In this particular case the TB ALC is slightly thicker than TB ZLC and thicker normally means faster...
Also the wood types matter...

Cheers
L-zr

NDH · Feb 14, 2022

Michael Zhuang said:
So in this case, should I believe that the TB ZLC is slower or faster than the TB ALC? BTY says slower, Revspin says faster.

For very vague "directional" ideas (especially when comparing manufacturer with the same manufacture), I'd go with Butterfly's ratings.

But, like with everything that comes from the manufacturer, you have to read between the lines a little.

In this instance, you have ALC vs ZLC (in my experience, the ZLC tends to be a little..... bouncier).

However, the TB ZLC is 5.5mm thick and the ALC is 5.8mm thick, so speed should go to the ALC here.

But in reality, if you have 2 blades with close specs, and differing opinions online, you can assume that it's virtually impossible to tell them apart.

I stopped reading "user submitted" reviews a long time ago, because what I might call a "rocket", you might think it's really slow.

If you are looking for something slower than the TB ALC, I would keep looking, as the TB ZLC is just too similar IMO.

dajdosta · Feb 14, 2022

I've tried 3 TB ALC blades.
One had a speed rating of 10, another one had 11 and last one had 8.5.

yoass · Feb 14, 2022

brokenball said:
All the ratings are bogus. When they report normal and tangential COR ratings from an independent lab, only then can you trust them.

And even then, only with a range of impacts - from very low to very high.

vvk1 · Feb 14, 2022

Michael Zhuang said:
I know a lot of people dont like revspin ratings, because they tend to be exaggerated. But generally, I tend to think revspin gives you the right DIRECTIONAL idea of speed.

For example, if Clipper is 8.5, and Viscaria is 9.0, then generally revspin tends to be right about telling you Viscaria is faster than Clipper. Whether 0.5 difference is too much or too little is up for debate.

But I noticed that occasionally Revspin differs in opinion from the manufacturer rating. For example, TB ALC/Viscaria is rated 11.8 reaction on BTY website. It is rated 9.0 on Revspin. TB ZLC is rated lower at 11.7 on BTY website, but is rated way higher at 9.4 on Revspin.

Directionally, which do you trust more?

Revspin speed/spin/control/etc ratings are pulled out of thin air, and therefore are literally meaningless. Manufacturer's ratings are also useless - because everything new is described as faster/spinnier and simultaneously with more control.

TLDR, stop being an EJ and practice instead.

Lazer · Feb 14, 2022

vvk1 said:
Revspin speed/spin/control/etc ratings are pulled out of thin air, and therefore are literally meaningless. Manufacturer's ratings are also useless - because everything new is faster/spinnier and simultaneously with more control.

TLDR, stop being an EJ and practice instead.

That is physically impossible. Control and spin is almost directly inversed. Spin is almost only depending on the blade speed and rubber. For a blade more speed = less spin and less control.

Cheer
L-zr

NDH · Feb 14, 2022

Lazer said:
That is physically impossible. Control and spin is almost directly inversed. Spin is almost only depending on the blade speed and rubber. For a blade more speed = less spin and less control.

Cheer
L-zr

What I believe vk1 is saying, is that Manufacturer's are constantly saying that their new products are faster, spinnier and have more control..... Therefore, you might as well ignore them, because they are just trying to sell their newest product.

Lazer · Feb 14, 2022

NDH said:
What I believe vk1 is saying, is that Manufacturer's are constantly saying that their new products are faster, spinnier and have more control..... Therefore, you might as well ignore them, because they are just trying to sell their newest product.

Not as far as I can see, they (at least BTY) have reasonable and correct numbers. But there numbers are average and each product differ some.

Cheers
L-zr

DukeGaGa · Feb 14, 2022

I think the only time I used the revspin rating is to check the tackiness, since that's really easy to do and mostly objective, i.e. how long does the ball stick to the rubber after being pressed on. I did place an back order for a 1L bottle of Joola x-glue that I'm still waiting though.

Michael Zhuang · Feb 14, 2022

NDH said:
For very vague "directional" ideas (especially when comparing manufacturer with the same manufacture), I'd go with Butterfly's ratings.

But, like with everything that comes from the manufacturer, you have to read between the lines a little.

In this instance, you have ALC vs ZLC (in my experience, the ZLC tends to be a little..... bouncier).

However, the TB ZLC is 5.5mm thick and the ALC is 5.8mm thick, so speed should go to the ALC here.

But in reality, if you have 2 blades with close specs, and differing opinions online, you can assume that it's virtually impossible to tell them apart.

I stopped reading "user submitted" reviews a long time ago, because what I might call a "rocket", you might think it's really slow.

If you are looking for something slower than the TB ALC, I would keep looking, as the TB ZLC is just too similar IMO.

I just lined up the TB ZLC against Yinhe V14 Pro. From my eye, they are exactly the same thickness.
ZLC is bouncier, same thickness. V14 has a harder feel, and TB ZLC has a flexier feel.

Altogether, which one would be faster??

vvk1 · Feb 14, 2022

NDH said:
What I believe vk1 is saying, is that Manufacturer's are constantly saying that their new products are faster, spinnier and have more control..... Therefore, you might as well ignore them, because they are just trying to sell their newest product.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Post updated.

brokenball · Feb 14, 2022

yoass said:
And even then, only with a range of impacts - from very low to very high.

Yes, this is documented in the Tieffenbacher document. The document clearly shows the coefficient of restitution dropping as a function of increase impact speed.

Lazer · Feb 14, 2022

Michael Zhuang said:
I just lined up the TB ZLC against Yinhe V14 Pro. From my eye, they are exactly the same thickness.
ZLC is bouncier, same thickness. V14 has a harder feel, and TB ZLC has a flexier feel.

Altogether, which one would be faster??

I think they differ 0.4mm. Not sure you can see it that way, use a caliper. Also the types of wood matters.

Cheers
L-zr

NDH · Feb 14, 2022

Michael Zhuang said:
I just lined up the TB ZLC against Yinhe V14 Pro. From my eye, they are exactly the same thickness.
ZLC is bouncier, same thickness. V14 has a harder feel, and TB ZLC has a flexier feel.

Altogether, which one would be faster??

I’ve not used the V14 Pro.

If you are saying that you’ve tested them both, and the TB ZLC is bouncier, then this is the one I’d say was faster.

But if I’m being honest, it’s probably not going to make any difference to your game at all.

At a certain point, it comes down to “if you have to ask, it won’t make any difference”.

Manufacturer speed ratings vs Revspin ratings

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