Help needed by an oldie

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hi basmundo

i am a PADDY not a daddy!

Moristo is a Nittaku sp. It is the same pips that Mima Ito uses on her backhand . very fast and ideal for a fast counterhitting style.
while its very capable for spin serving like most sp enables you to punch through opponents spin when required.
Probably you need to practice minimum 3 times a week to get the best out of this high performance rubber.
Its a very enjoyable rubber to use

good luck

Apologies Paddy. Not sure if that was a spellchecker or just plain senility!
Moristo sounds like fun. Would you suggest Moristo with 1.4, 1.8 or 2.0 sponge, bearing in mind the speed of my current backhand rubber which is Rhyzer 43. Also would you recommend on both sides or BH only while retaining an inverted rubber on the FH? Also on a defensive, allround or fast/stiff blade for best results once I am used to it?

 
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Apologies Paddy. Not sure if that was a spellchecker or just plain senility!
Moristo sounds like fun. Would you suggest Moristo with 1.4, 1.8 or 2.0 sponge, bearing in mind the speed of my current backhand rubber which is Rhyzer 43. Also would you recommend on both sides or BH only while retaining an inverted rubber on the FH? Also on a defensive, allround or fast/stiff blade for best results once I am used to it?

lets hope its not senility as moristo is a lively rubber! Go with the blade that suits YOU same for thickness, I think

 
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I'm interested to know why using long pips or anti-spin in a combination bat setup is not considered a better alternative. I have always found these difficult to play against due to the extreme variation in the shots delivered from the two different surfaces. Players using combination play also seem to be those most able to stay up close to the table, presumably due to the ease of controlling fast receives by blocking short with the 'junk' rubber.
 
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what about an inverted Rubber which are very controlled like a Factive in 2.0 or a Rigan?
You could negate some of the incoming speed with Rubbers like these,while you don´t have to "reinvent" your stroke style,which i assume at your age is even more stressfull.
I am not your age,but i also did just start to play again like half a year ago,after stopping for 25 years,tried short pips,too.
But i got back to Playing Acuda S2 1.8 on Bh and Factive 2.0 on Fh.(for now)
Ireally got into trouble with short pips cause of the Rearanging of the stroke,cause i have the Pimpels IN Bh and FH stroke technique.
Just asking,otherwise nothing speaks against,was just out of curiousity about Elbows,Arms,etc when you have to change.
But i have to say i played the Spinlord Degu in 1.6 or so,which is a very easy to play but slow short pimples out rubber.
The Rakza and Moristo might be on another level,considering you can generate at least a bit of spin with them.
Some older Guys still play a Rozena (73y) and the other still a G1 (67) on Fh and an Vega Europe on BH.
 
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what about an inverted Rubber which are very controlled like a Factive in 2.0 or a Rigan?
You could negate some of the incoming speed with Rubbers like these,while you don´t have to "reinvent" your stroke style,which i assume at your age is even more stressfull.
I am not your age,but i also did just start to play again like half a year ago,after stopping for 25 years,tried short pips,too.
But i got back to Playing Acuda S2 1.8 on Bh and Factive 2.0 on Fh.(for now)
Ireally got into trouble with short pips cause of the Rearanging of the stroke,cause i have the Pimpels IN Bh and FH stroke technique.
Just asking,otherwise nothing speaks against,was just out of curiousity about Elbows,Arms,etc when you have to change.
But i have to say i played the Spinlord Degu in 1.6 or so,which is a very easy to play but slow short pimples out rubber.
The Rakza and Moristo might be on another level,considering you can generate at least a bit of spin with them.
Some older Guys still play a Rozena (73y) and the other still a G1 (67) on Fh and an Vega Europe on BH.

Thanks Haraold. I had been wondering about the same thing as an alternative but wasn't sure of what rubbers would be suitable. I can understand that the instinctive reaction is going to be to use bat angles that are 'grooved' for some while while adjusting to pips. I don't know the rubbers that you mention but had been thinking of something like Joola Mambo H or Victas V>402 Limber but wonder if these plus your suggestions could still be a little fast.

 
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the Factive at least,Can be fast if you invest in a heavy stroke,but from what i know of the Factive it is astonishing how controlled you can play with it.
And from my experience,if you play near the table as you want to,you should give the Factive a shot
It is from Nittaku,and plays like a real more modern version of the Mark V,Coppa or some classic from back in the days.
I still try to get my hands on the Rigan or Rigan Spin but they should be even slower and softer than the Factive,if 45° esn is to hard.
The Rigans are from Yasaka,its hard to get your hands on them,at least here in Germany.
they are produced mainly for the japanese market,but they are worth it..
The main point of those rubbers are forgiving,but have Gears!.
if you are not that fast anymore,but try to take advantage of your antizpation and Experience,you can be really precisely with them!
and as i seeyou play the Rhyzer 45 and 42,the Factive on Fh and a Rigan on Bh would be near your equipment anyway.
The Factive has 45° and the Rigan about 42°.
The Joola Zack should be near a Rigan,but i was only told.
Hope some Players who played the Rigan´s can chime,glad you still play!
Kind Regards and hope you find your rubbers.
Can´t say anything about Mambo and Victas sry never played them.
 
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NDH

says Spin to win!
It comes down to personal preference.

A lot of people (me included), have seen (or still see), pimples as a “cheap” way to win.

I had that mentality as I was coming up the ranks, because I used to hate losing to players who used them, when their shots weren’t aesthetically pleasing and they didn’t move around too much!

It felt like the advantage they gained from using pimples was unfair. But that’s just because I wasn’t experienced enough against them.

In your situation, Barry, if winning is your primary aim, I really think Pimples will be the way to go - PROVIDING you can learn the right technique, and understand their limitations.

The problem with simply slowing down a typical inverted set up to give you more control, is that you’ll still have the same issues you have at the moment.

It also won’t be an issue for the opposition, who will be very used to playing against typical inverted rubbers.

Pimples can be a taboo topic in the sport, and as someone who has always said “I’d never use pimples”, i’m amazed I’m giving this advice! But stranger things have happened!

The advantage of having one side inverted, would be you still poses a typical attacking stroke.

The downside would be if people catch on, and only play to your inverted rubber - Although at the level you are talking about, most people don’t really think about the game plan like that (from experience).
 
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the Factive at least,Can be fast if you invest in a heavy stroke,but from what i know of the Factive it is astonishing how controlled you can play with it.
And from my experience,if you play near the table as you want to,you should give the Factive a shot
It is from Nittaku,and plays like a real more modern version of the Mark V,Coppa or some classic from back in the days.
I still try to get my hands on the Rigan or Rigan Spin but they should be even slower and softer than the Factive,if 45° esn is to hard.
The Rigans are from Yasaka,its hard to get your hands on them,at least here in Germany.
they are produced mainly for the japanese market,but they are worth it..
The main point of those rubbers are forgiving,but have Gears!.
if you are not that fast anymore,but try to take advantage of your antizpation and Experience,you can be really precisely with them!
and as i seeyou play the Rhyzer 45 and 42,the Factive on Fh and a Rigan on Bh would be near your equipment anyway.
The Factive has 45° and the Rigan about 42°.
The Joola Zack should be near a Rigan,but i was only told.
Hope some Players who played the Rigan´s can chime,glad you still play!
Kind Regards and hope you find your rubbers.
Can´t say anything about Mambo and Victas sry never played them.

Rigan is currently available from TableTennis11 for 27.42 Euros. Jarvis Sports in the UK also stocks Rigan. However Spin does appear available at either.

 
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It comes down to personal preference.

A lot of people (me included), have seen (or still see), pimples as a “cheap” way to win.

I had that mentality as I was coming up the ranks, because I used to hate losing to players who used them, when their shots weren’t aesthetically pleasing and they didn’t move around too much!

It felt like the advantage they gained from using pimples was unfair. But that’s just because I wasn’t experienced enough against them.

In your situation, Barry, if winning is your primary aim, I really think Pimples will be the way to go - PROVIDING you can learn the right technique, and understand their limitations.

The problem with simply slowing down a typical inverted set up to give you more control, is that you’ll still have the same issues you have at the moment.

It also won’t be an issue for the opposition, who will be very used to playing against typical inverted rubbers.

Pimples can be a taboo topic in the sport, and as someone who has always said “I’d never use pimples”, i’m amazed I’m giving this advice! But stranger things have happened!

The advantage of having one side inverted, would be you still poses a typical attacking stroke.

The downside would be if people catch on, and only play to your inverted rubber - Although at the level you are talking about, most people don’t really think about the game plan like that (from experience).

Thanks again NDH for investing the time to advise me in my circumstances, especially as the style of play that we are discussing is not one that you particularly subscribe to. I am sure that you are aware that pips out came first but I am old enough to remember complaints about inverted rubbers giving an unfair advantage when introduced.
As I think I have said before, the style of play that I prefer is using fairly fast bat/rubber combos and using spin and speed when I am able. In the absence so far of a video I will attempt to accurately describe my game. I can appear brilliant to some against a lesser player and people regularly overestimate my level of play as the result. I have a particularly effective FH topspin drive which wins me points provided that I am given the freedom to use it. I also have a reasonably good BH loop and can block well on both wings and push very well on my BH and reasonably well on my FH. Another effective shot I have is taking my BH push immediately after the bounce to punch/push the ball with very heavy backspin. This also wins me points even if the ball goes a little high as it inevitably ends up in the net.
I recently played someone with an 83% win rate in my division and by playing a patient pushing game against his defensive play I ended up 10:7 in the 5th set. I then threw the game away by being impatient and not continuing with the same strategy but by trying to finish the game off too aggressively! However, being a defensive player, he had gaven me the time to move him around until I could use my FH. On the same night I lost to a counter hitter with a lower average and who took the ball early which gave me no time to play my game. It would appear therefore that strengthening my control to enable me to keep the ball in play by pushing and blocking and with the ability to put the ball away when the chance arises, would improve my results.
You mention pimples as being a possible way to go but do you mean long or short? I have been considering long pips on my BH and a more controlled inverted rubber on my FH. I find that receiving a ball from long pips that dies quite hard to contend with compared with a topspin ball that comes through to you and I wonder therefore if the contrast between the two rubbers would present an effective enough combination. However, as you mention, people should soon realise that playing to the inverted rubber would solve the problem. Another consideration I have had is using short pips on the FH and long pips on the BH to give the opponent something different to think about from both wings. I think that the short pips would need to be of the type that can impart some spin to enable me to topspin as well as flat hit when the opportunity presents itself.

 

NDH

says Spin to win!

I'm basing my advice off your descriptions and my experience, so apologies if it's not quite right!

The issue I see with a more controlled inverted rubber on one side, is that your attacking potential will be diminished, and the players you want to beat (who have no problem with your inverted rubbers currently), will have even less trouble with a more controlled/slower inverted rubber you use.

Especially if you plan on playing a similar attacking game that you currently play.

That game style may solidify your current position, but based on what you've said, I don't think you'll necessarily improve to the level you'd like.

Then again, you have to enjoy playing the game..... So bear that in mind with whatever you choose!

If you can get to grips with being aggressive with Short Pips, I think you'd do well.

It's much easier to play aggressive, close to the table shots with Short Pips, and the time you take away from your opponent, combined with the extra thought process of playing against Short Pips will give you a big advantage.

On the other side, I guess you have 3 options.

1. Inverted - If you go down this route, I would chose a rubber you can be aggressive with. You want to win the points early, and if the opportunity arises and you can put the ball away with your inverted rubber, you don't want it compromised by a more controlled rubber.

It will also make blocking top spin more difficult for the opponent (as it'll come back to them quicker) and will amplify the speed difference between your short pips and inverted.

2. Long Pips - I don't love the Short/Long combination. Especially for someone who has played with inverted for a long time.

You'll have to completely change your style on both wings, and you'll lose 90% of your attacking capability.

3. Short Pips - Depending on how you take to the new style of Short Pips, having this on both sides could prove useful.

Whichever way you go (and I think it's trail and error at this point), your main aim has to be to stay close to the table, take away their time, and be aggressive with your shot selection.

 
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I completely understand he reasoning behind going Pimples Out,but it is an adjustment.
I did the same,and agree with @NDH that your opponents can adjust better to pimples in rubbers.
but if your push or block is more precise it´s also harder to return for your opponent,and you can still play your Style if the oppurtunity arises.
Maybe if its not to expensive,try out some stuff and you will see what suits you best.
Someone who plays near the table uses Grass D-Tecs now,so long pimples.
he really plays the short game on Bh and even Fh.
He has a good to almost great Topspin on Fh,and uses Skyline 2 if i remember correctly.
I think you should try all kind of rubbers,Anti,short or long pimples.
Even if you revert back to pimples in,you gain experience how to play against them,even if they don´t fit your style.
I maybe get the Rigan Spin directly from Japan,and can then write back if i tried it.
I only played the Factive in 2.0 which is a really good rubber,not as fast as some Fastarcs etc but more controlled and less spin sensitive.
But the Contra side is,you can´t generate as much spin with it,then say a Fastarc G1.(only tried it out for 2 Training sessions,it was too fast for me back then,and i made too much mistakes)
Hope you find your rubbers and have fun again trying different rubbers just to see what fits,
It may be frustrating at the start but maybe you find what suits your needs the best.
Kind Regards.
 
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Will changing equipment cause you to go up in level? It might, it might not. If you change to a pips game and it really works for you, it is likely that there will be a transition where you get worse before you get better.

I also think, no matter who you are, if you are thinking of changing equipment to INCREASE your skill level, perhaps things need to be assessed differently.

Why don't you get some coaching and let the coach make some suggestions about what he thinks will help you out the most.

My best understanding of things is that, no matter what else you do, if you want to go UP IN LEVEL, you need to do the work, the training, and get the time in playing a decent amount of match play with a variety of players who present different problems. There is not magic piece of equipment that will play the game for you and beat players who currently consistently beat you -3, -4, -3.

I would also start filming and watch footage of yourself as often as you can so you can see what you are actually doing. Examining footage can really help you see some things that you would not realize in the middle of a match.
 
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BTW: those wily old players who look like they don't have to do anything and yet the beat a lot of players who look really good....there is more than meets the eye to what they are doing. And often they have decades of experience playing and tons of game skills that are not so easy to understand.

In other words, it is not because they are old that they are so good. It is because they are good, they have years of experience, and they know what to expect will come back to them based on the shot they just hit.

I have heard a few good coaches talk about how, a lot of the time, players at a certain level are focusing on what they think they can do and what they want to do, and they are not focusing sufficiently on what their opponent is doing. And in any racket sport, what your opponent does, if the opponent is good enough, can limit what you can do. So, it is very important to pay attention to what your opponent does. Those wily old guys who are really good, they know how to do that.
 
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Will changing equipment cause you to go up in level? It might, it might not. If you change to a pips game and it really works for you, it is likely that there will be a transition where you get worse before you get better.

I also think, no matter who you are, if you are thinking of changing equipment to INCREASE your skill level, perhaps things need to be assessed differently.

Why don't you get some coaching and let the coach make some suggestions about what he thinks will help you out the most.

My best understanding of things is that, no matter what else you do, if you want to go UP IN LEVEL, you need to do the work, the training, and get the time in playing a decent amount of match play with a variety of players who present different problems. There is not magic piece of equipment that will play the game for you and beat players who currently consistently beat you -3, -4, -3.

I would also start filming and watch footage of yourself as often as you can so you can see what you are actually doing. Examining footage can really help you see some things that you would not realize in the middle of a match.

I think that you are spot on Carl. I believe that I haven’t painted an accurate picture of where I am at.
On returning to TT after some 40+ years I did undergo some one-to-one coaching. I played one match in our third division and one all three games plus the doubles. As you know, my wife became ill prior to Covid and as a result is immunosuppressed. I have therefore been very careful and have not attended any matches or practice sessions during the Covid lockdown times and when infection rates have been high. The result is that I have not managed a sustained period of practice but have only had the occasional opportunity to play depending on our vaccination status and levels of infection. Over a period of two years I have only played one other competitive match and my main table tennis experience since starting up again only this year has been club TT when there is predominantly doubles play due to numbers attending. The standard of the opposition is also mainly recreational players and a few league players. The opportunities to play singles against a league player have been seldom.
During the self-imposed lockdown times I have amused myself reading around the subject, looking at rubbers and blades and since our last communication I have made up a combination bat with Dynaryz ACC on the FH and Dr Neubauer Aggressor long pips on the BH and have recently bought a Rossi Emotion with Rhyzer 48 and Rhyzer 43 rubbers. I did play a singles practice game with the combo bat against someone 2 divisions above me and probably scored better with it but I didn’t stick with it as I prefer the tensor inverted rubber feel on my BH.
So you have made me think logically about my situation and I have realised that I shouldn’t expect anything else from my performance based on the above. I need good practice, match play, self-analysis via video and probably more coaching before doing anything radical. I should probably also go back to using one of my slower setups with an allround blade and work my way up again to the faster setups.
The only problem with match play is that I have lost confidence and I am in that ‘chicken and egg’ situation where I don’t want to play a team match while I might let them down but I won’t improve until I do!

 
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i understand that you are not confident,but the only way you can gain it back is to play competition.
That´s why I triy to play as many tournaments as i can now,your lockdown situation is more than understandable given your experience with this Effing Disease.
However I believe when you just say to your teammates,look i am on that level and maybe i win or loose depending on the contrahent,and they see you play and fight,you won´t let them down.
On the contratry,they will see "oh he might have been rusty but he gave it his all" and therefore you reestablish Trust and also gain your confidence back which is essential.
Nobody likes loosing in Competition,and I had the same feeling of leeting the team down,but you have to scratch and claw back.
Then it will slowly or maybe even faster than you think get better and better.
and maybe the poster above me will transfer some of his energy in helping others...
But UpSideDownCarl is spot on,that´s what i meant with Antizipation.
He put it just way more eloquently.
If you have a slower setup maybe try it out and see if it fits your current level better and then go back to the Emotion +Rhyzer 48 and 43 (Is this the old Rosskopf Blade?).
If it is,then i only know it from back in the 90s,never played any of your rubbers so i can´t help you there.
As aways stay Healthy and have fun!
 
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I think that you are spot on Carl. I believe that I haven’t painted an accurate picture of where I am at.
On returning to TT after some 40+ years I did undergo some one-to-one coaching. I played one match in our third division and one all three games plus the doubles. As you know, my wife became ill prior to Covid and as a result is immunosuppressed. I have therefore been very careful and have not attended any matches or practice sessions during the Covid lockdown times and when infection rates have been high. The result is that I have not managed a sustained period of practice but have only had the occasional opportunity to play depending on our vaccination status and levels of infection. Over a period of two years I have only played one other competitive match and my main table tennis experience since starting up again only this year has been club TT when there is predominantly doubles play due to numbers attending. The standard of the opposition is also mainly recreational players and a few league players. The opportunities to play singles against a league player have been seldom.
During the self-imposed lockdown times I have amused myself reading around the subject, looking at rubbers and blades and since our last communication I have made up a combination bat with Dynaryz ACC on the FH and Dr Neubauer Aggressor long pips on the BH and have recently bought a Rossi Emotion with Rhyzer 48 and Rhyzer 43 rubbers. I did play a singles practice game with the combo bat against someone 2 divisions above me and probably scored better with it but I didn’t stick with it as I prefer the tensor inverted rubber feel on my BH.
So you have made me think logically about my situation and I have realised that I shouldn’t expect anything else from my performance based on the above. I need good practice, match play, self-analysis via video and probably more coaching before doing anything radical. I should probably also go back to using one of my slower setups with an allround blade and work my way up again to the faster setups.
The only problem with match play is that I have lost confidence and I am in that ‘chicken and egg’ situation where I don’t want to play a team match while I might let them down but I won’t improve until I do!

So, I guess the thing is, you are talking about wanting to change equipment to increase your level at the beginning of the thread. And in this post, it sounds like you are sayin that you are not getting enough time on the table to improve regardless of what equipment you are using.


So, the question I would ask is, would you want to change to a setup where you feel awkward, play worse, but maybe get 1 or 2 more points per game against those same players you lose at -3, -4, -3 against despite the fact that you are actually playing worse and feel awkward? Or would you rather just play with what you are used to and have fun, and when you have a scenario where you can get enough table time, then decide what methods you would like to use to increase your skill level?


My suggestion would be for you to play when you can and be happy with whatever happens. And don't worry about letting people down when you play. Just play when you can and forget about the rest.


If there is ever a point where you have enough table time to focus on improving, at that point you will have many ways of doing it to choose from.


There are plenty of people where one or another pips out rubber really works for their style of play, and/or their temperament. I am not sure, being in your 70s with limited time on the table to get used to such a big change is the right time to explore that kind of option seriously. But you have to think about what makes you like playing TT? Is it making great shots and playing well? Or is it making points on tricking someone so they make mistakes on balls that should be easy if they are read properly? It is a valid choice when that is how you like to play. I used to train with this guy who played a combination LP/Smooth who was amazing at twiddling and he got so much glee out of dropping the ball short with either rubber and watching decent level players misread what he did. He was a trickster and he loved it. There are other people who are just great at monster flat hit punch shots who do great with SP rubbers and you can see the joy they get in making those evil dead ball punch shots that are very awkward to return. Do either of those sound like you? You need to think about what really makes you happy when you play TT to decide what kind of equipment you would like to use.

 
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i understand that you are not confident,but the only way you can gain it back is to play competition.
That´s why I triy to play as many tournaments as i can now,your lockdown situation is more than understandable given your experience with this Effing Disease.
However I believe when you just say to your teammates,look i am on that level and maybe i win or loose depending on the contrahent,and they see you play and fight,you won´t let them down.
On the contratry,they will see "oh he might have been rusty but he gave it his all" and therefore you reestablish Trust and also gain your confidence back which is essential.
Nobody likes loosing in Competition,and I had the same feeling of leeting the team down,but you have to scratch and claw back.
Then it will slowly or maybe even faster than you think get better and better.
and maybe the poster above me will transfer some of his energy in helping others...
But UpSideDownCarl is spot on,that´s what i meant with Antizipation.
He put it just way more eloquently.
If you have a slower setup maybe try it out and see if it fits your current level better and then go back to the Emotion +Rhyzer 48 and 43 (Is this the old Rosskopf Blade?).
If it is,then i only know it from back in the 90s,never played any of your rubbers so i can´t help you there.
As aways stay Healthy and have fun!

Thanks for the words of encouragement Haraold. Much appreciated.
Good luck and stay safe.

 
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