Help needed by an oldie

Basmundo · Feb 25, 2022

I have tried all manor of reverse rubber and blade combinations but at the end of the day my speed of movement limits my level of competitiveness. i have good reactions but my movement is just not fast enough to compete the level I aspire to. i am too easily driven back from the table allowing my opponent to exploit angles that I just cannot reach in time.
My reasoning is therefore that I need to stay up close to the table using my reasonable speed of reaction rather than my limited speed of movement. at 75 years of age this seems a sensible strategy as my physical limitations are unlikely to improve. My thoughts therefore are that I need to adopt a more defensive strategy using ether defensive blades with suitably high control inverted rubbers or maybe even a combination with junk rubbers (gasps of horror).
Good players seem to just eat up topspin shots which even I find the easiest to return provided that they are within reach. The slower shots that don't come onto the bat seem far more difficult to deal with.
There must be other 'oldies' out there that have this problem and may consider stopping playing due to lack of competitiveness. Could those of you who know more about the game than me please recommend a strategy and blade/rubber setup that might suit my circumstances to enable me to continue competing at a reasonable level. many of you will know an old timer at your club that fits into this category. Advice of suitable blades and rubbers would also be appreciated.

DukeGaGa · Feb 25, 2022

hmm, in China you can often see older people playing in the park, and more often than not they beat mostly everyone else. So maybe you can search for a few videos of those and see what's their strategies.

lodro · Feb 25, 2022

I AM the oldie but i can not claim to know more than you or anybody else for that matter.
My slowest blade ever is the TSP Blockman II . Together with a standard DHS Hurricane 3 , lets say H39/2.15, you will get the weapon
that should cover your needs.
You could also start playing 1 side with short pimples.

Lula · Feb 25, 2022

I would get a fast blade so the ball rebounds fast so you can borrow the opponents speed or maybe a medium pimple rubber or short pimple with little grip could help you slow down the game. I think that if you do not want any pimples i would go for the option to get a faster racket so you get more help generating power and spin and with a lower arc blade the ball will leave fast and lower balls will make it harder for the opponent to attack.

I believe you can develop in any age so try working on placement(far corners or the pocket), variation in speed and spin, serve and return. With better placement and variation you make the opponent move and they will have a harder time play as fast. With good serve and return it will be harder for the opponent to attack hard, you can get easier balls to kill and bring the game to where you want.

Try to read the game more. Look at the opponents racket and not the ball. Try to think where the ball is going to come, like if you play faster strokes deep in the diagonal the ball will often come back diagonal. Again, with good serve and return will enable you to force the opponent to give you the ball you want so you can move beforehand.

If you have the money i think some multiball training with a good coach can help you become better and adapt strategies.

Good luck.

Gozo Aruna · Feb 26, 2022

Basmundo said:
I have tried all manor of reverse rubber and blade combinations but at the end of the day my speed of movement limits my level of competitiveness. i have good reactions but my movement is just not fast enough to compete the level I aspire to. i am too easily driven back from the table allowing my opponent to exploit angles that I just cannot reach in time.
My reasoning is therefore that I need to stay up close to the table using my reasonable speed of reaction rather than my limited speed of movement. at 75 years of age this seems a sensible strategy as my physical limitations are unlikely to improve. My thoughts therefore are that I need to adopt a more defensive strategy using ether defensive blades with suitably high control inverted rubbers or maybe even a combination with junk rubbers (gasps of horror).
Good players seem to just eat up topspin shots which even I find the easiest to return provided that they are within reach. The slower shots that don't come onto the bat seem far more difficult to deal with.
There must be other 'oldies' out there that have this problem and may consider stopping playing due to lack of competitiveness. Could those of you who know more about the game than me please recommend a strategy and blade/rubber setup that might suit my circumstances to enable me to continue competing at a reasonable level. many of you will know an old timer at your club that fits into this category. Advice of suitable blades and rubbers would also be appreciated.

Strange as I often get beaten by veteran players. One of the thing I notice frequently is how fast these veteran adapt to different styles. I may win the first match or get a good score against them in the first set and lose. However, in the following sets, I would lose terribly. The thing is that these veteran quickly adapt against me. Experience really counts. The older the ginger, the spicier it gets is an oft saying amongst my community.

lodro · Feb 26, 2022

There is a thread here on the forum called[h1]Video Footage Safe Thread[/h1]If you could post a short video clip of you playing it would be much easier to make suggestions.
Lula is one of the elected few who is permitted to comment in that thread.

When one reaches a certain stage in life (and i deliberately refuse to use the term " AGE" ) some things
become impossible to do no matter how hard one tries. Footwork resembles like somebody has put some
superglue on my shoes. Seeing the oppositions blade and recognizing what it does will not necessarily translate into the correct counter action or if it does, it will be " late."
If one is often "late", it also will become difficult to "place" a ball where you wanted it to go.

just saying 😁

Basmundo · Feb 26, 2022

Lula said:
I would get a fast blade so the ball rebounds fast so you can borrow the opponents speed or maybe a medium pimple rubber or short pimple with little grip could help you slow down the game. I think that if you do not want any pimples i would go for the option to get a faster racket so you get more help generating power and spin and with a lower arc blade the ball will leave fast and lower balls will make it harder for the opponent to attack.

I believe you can develop in any age so try working on placement(far corners or the pocket), variation in speed and spin, serve and return. With better placement and variation you make the opponent move and they will have a harder time play as fast. With good serve and return it will be harder for the opponent to attack hard, you can get easier balls to kill and bring the game to where you want.

Try to read the game more. Look at the opponents racket and not the ball. Try to think where the ball is going to come, like if you play faster strokes deep in the diagonal the ball will often come back diagonal. Again, with good serve and return will enable you to force the opponent to give you the ball you want so you can move beforehand.

If you have the money i think some multiball training with a good coach can help you become better and adapt strategies.

Good luck.

Thanks Lula. Always good to hear your opinion. I have some fast blades and rubbers which suit my topspin game on both sides. This is fine when I am in control of the opposition but when I meet superior players they just eat up my shots and the speed of my setup becomes a disadvantage in addition to the lesser speed of movement when driven back from the table. I can block well on both sides provided I can get to the bounce of the ball but that also becomes less possible when driven back. I can also push defensively quite well in the same circumstances but this demands that I am up close to the table. In addition I am struggling with control of superior spin serves of the better players even though I can read them OK.
I am thinking that i need a setup which is slower and with a high level of control to enable me to stay up to the table and dictate the play more by using angles as you suggest. This may sacrifice my heavy topspin shots but the pressure exerted by superior players often prevents me being able to play these anyway. I have considered maybe short pimples on the forehand and long pimples on the backhand or even anti spin which would allow me to play aggressive defence on the backhand and retain some level of attack with more control than I currently have on the forehand. What do you think?

Basmundo · Feb 26, 2022

Lula said:
I would get a fast blade so the ball rebounds fast so you can borrow the opponents speed or maybe a medium pimple rubber or short pimple with little grip could help you slow down the game. I think that if you do not want any pimples i would go for the option to get a faster racket so you get more help generating power and spin and with a lower arc blade the ball will leave fast and lower balls will make it harder for the opponent to attack.

I believe you can develop in any age so try working on placement(far corners or the pocket), variation in speed and spin, serve and return. With better placement and variation you make the opponent move and they will have a harder time play as fast. With good serve and return it will be harder for the opponent to attack hard, you can get easier balls to kill and bring the game to where you want.

Try to read the game more. Look at the opponents racket and not the ball. Try to think where the ball is going to come, like if you play faster strokes deep in the diagonal the ball will often come back diagonal. Again, with good serve and return will enable you to force the opponent to give you the ball you want so you can move beforehand.

If you have the money i think some multiball training with a good coach can help you become better and adapt strategies.

Good luck.

....... or maybe a defensive inverted rubber on the forehand and short pimples on the backhand or even short pimples on both sides

pingpongpaddy · Feb 26, 2022

Basmundo said:
I have tried all manor of reverse rubber and blade combinations but at the end of the day my speed of movement limits my level of competitiveness. i have good reactions but my movement is just not fast enough to compete the level I aspire to. i am too easily driven back from the table allowing my opponent to exploit angles that I just cannot reach in time.
My reasoning is therefore that I need to stay up close to the table using my reasonable speed of reaction rather than my limited speed of movement. at 75 years of age this seems a sensible strategy as my physical limitations are unlikely to improve. My thoughts therefore are that I need to adopt a more defensive strategy using ether defensive blades with suitably high control inverted rubbers or maybe even a combination with junk rubbers (gasps of horror).
Good players seem to just eat up topspin shots which even I find the easiest to return provided that they are within reach. The slower shots that don't come onto the bat seem far more difficult to deal with.
There must be other 'oldies' out there that have this problem and may consider stopping playing due to lack of competitiveness. Could those of you who know more about the game than me please recommend a strategy and blade/rubber setup that might suit my circumstances to enable me to continue competing at a reasonable level. many of you will know an old timer at your club that fits into this category. Advice of suitable blades and rubbers would also be appreciated.

Hi Basmundo
I am 73 and can empathise with your situation.
I dont really recommend a combi bat unless you feel that you have an exceptional talent for this kind of thing as it will do a lot of harm to your stroke production
I would suggest that you continue to drill to improve your movement and reactions and pay special attention to consistency and not moving backward. To that end maybe block where before you might drive sometimes.
I play with short pips (moristo) both sides and find it works well
I also spend a lot of time on my service which has always been a strength.
But really consistent counterhitting drills will be a key for you.
Falkenberg and other bh fh combinations played for consistency at close range will help Try to hit the ball off the bounce rather than be forced. back . This takes away opponents time and forces them back. Dont be put off when opponent hits through you occasionally. A close to the table player has to accept that as a normal situation and rely on consistency placement and reactions to make the difference
Also make a study of blocking and improve yr ability to change the length of yr blocks can be very effective against the topspinner. you meet. Most loopers are strong side to side but weak moving backwards and forwards
pull them in and push them back
good luck

Basmundo · Feb 26, 2022

pingpongpaddy said:
Hi Basmundo
I am 73 and can empathise with your situation.
I dont really recommend a combi bat unless you feel that you have an exceptional talent for this kind of thing as it will do a lot of harm to your stroke production
I would suggest that you continue to drill to improve your movement and reactions and pay special attention to consistency and not moving backward. To that end maybe block where before you might drive sometimes.
I play with short pips (moristo) both sides and find it works well
I also spend a lot of time on my service which has always been a strength.
But really consistent counterhitting drills will be a key for you.
Falkenberg and other bh fh combinations played for consistency at close range will help Try to hit the ball off the bounce rather than be forced. back . This takes away opponents time and forces them back. Dont be put off when opponent hits through you occasionally. A close to the table player has to accept that as a normal situation and rely on consistency placement and reactions to make the difference
Also make a study of blocking and improve yr ability to change the length of yr blocks can be very effective against the topspinner. you meet. Most loopers are strong side to side but weak moving backwards and forwards
pull them in and push them back
good luck

Thanks pingpong daddy. Very interesting comments and good advice, especially taking the ball earlier. Do you use the moristo with sponge and on what type of blade please? Is that rubber fairly insensitive to spin from opponents serves etc?
Thanks again.

NDH · Feb 26, 2022

Hey Basmundo, what sort of level are you playing at?

This is something I’ve been thinking about, although I don’t have to consider it for a good few years yet!

When I look at the “good” older players, they are nearly always defensive, a lot with pimples, and they do well through variation and mastering their new style.

But it really depends what compromises you are willing to make.

Ultimately, you talk about losing to superior players right now. Do you feel they’ll have less problems if you changed your style?

I would suggest that towards the “top end” of players, it won’t make a difference. If anything, your inability to attack with a defensive set up will make it easier for them.

Those players know how to play against all the different rubbers, and the “ceiling” for a defensive player is usually lower than that of an attacker (generally).

But….. You will probably find that your competitiveness will be given a new lease of life, and you may pick up wins against players you would have lost to if you’d kept the same set up.

It’s a tricky balance, which almost needs a little acceptance that you may not be as competitive against some players (who you say you lose to anyway), whilst being more competitive against others.

I would suggest that whatever you chose, it’s a set up that allows you to stay close to the table. As you said, the minute you drop back, it’s game over.

Lula’s suggestion of a fast set up is one way to go, and if you have the reactions and shots to take advantage of it, it’s a good style to play (and keeps you on the front foot).

But (and this is without knowing your level), I generally find the….. more mature player, simply doesn’t have the quickness to constantly be competitive playing that style.

I’d probably recommend pips of some kind, at least on one side, and probably both.

That’ll generally help with your serve receive, ability to stay at the table, and it’ll give you as much advantage as possible by giving the opponent a quick shot return with pips (generally speaking, it’s the pips players who play close to the table that cause the most damage, as it takes away all the time).

This is all dependant on your level though! 😃

Basmundo · Feb 26, 2022

NDH said:
Hey Basmundo, what sort of level are you playing at?

This is something I’ve been thinking about, although I don’t have to consider it for a good few years yet!

When I look at the “good” older players, they are nearly always defensive, a lot with pimples, and they do well through variation and mastering their new style.

But it really depends what compromises you are willing to make.

Ultimately, you talk about losing to superior players right now. Do you feel they’ll have less problems if you changed your style?

I would suggest that towards the “top end” of players, it won’t make a difference. If anything, your inability to attack with a defensive set up will make it easier for them.

Those players know how to play against all the different rubbers, and the “ceiling” for a defensive player is usually lower than that of an attacker (generally).

But….. You will probably find that your competitiveness will be given a new lease of life, and you may pick up wins against players you would have lost to if you’d kept the same set up.

It’s a tricky balance, which almost needs a little acceptance that you may not be as competitive against some players (who you say you lose to anyway), whilst being more competitive against others.

I would suggest that whatever you chose, it’s a set up that allows you to stay close to the table. As you said, the minute you drop back, it’s game over.

Lula’s suggestion of a fast set up is one way to go, and if you have the reactions and shots to take advantage of it, it’s a good style to play (and keeps you on the front foot).

But (and this is without knowing your level), I generally find the….. more mature player, simply doesn’t have the quickness to constantly be competitive playing that style.

I’d probably recommend pips of some kind, at least on one side, and probably both.

That’ll generally help with your serve receive, ability to stay at the table, and it’ll give you as much advantage as possible by giving the opponent a quick shot return with pips (generally speaking, it’s the pips players who play close to the table that cause the most damage, as it takes away all the time).

This is all dependant on your level though! 😃

Hello NDH
I really appreciate you taking the time to make such a comprehensive reply. I am a returner after a 30+ year layoff, or at least I have been trying to for the last two years but keep being interrupted by lockdowns etc. My wife is immunosuppressed so I have had to be particularly careful which has regularly curtailed my playing.

I have played a couple of matches in our Colchester Div. 3 and won 5 out of 6 games. I am probably aspiring to Div. 2 or 1 when our league has a premiership division so add a division to those numbers. I get the opportunity to have a game with our Div. 1 players on occasions and can't get near them; maybe taking 3 or 4 points an end.

I have a good topspin game which is my preference as I enjoy it but the good players don't give me the time that I need to use it and I am prepared to change my game to stay competitive. I can loop poorer players off the table but not the better guys. I thinks pimples may be the way to go to simply help me keep the ball in play, or maybe just on the BH with a slower more controllable inverted rubber in the FH for when I get the opportunity to bring it into play. I'm not sure however what would be the best choice of blade and rubbers including with or without sponge for the pimples and if short/medium or long.

Many thanks again for your time.

UpSideDownCarl · Feb 26, 2022

Barry, Good to see you back on the forum.

Any chance you can post video in that video safe thread so guys like NDH and Lula can see and assess your playing and have a better basis for telling you things that could help?

One thing to know about level, if you are playing a group of guys where you consistently can only get 3 or 4 points per game, they are simply a higher level than you. And my understanding of how your level goes up is playing experience. For an older guy, playing experience does not necessarily mean lots of footwork drills. It may mean reading and responding to spin in a more wily and/or deceitful manner.

I know a guy who makes jokes about one of his "loop" shots and calls it: a "Heavy No-Spin Loop". People who don't read it correctly respond to it as if it is a loop but it has empty spin like what you would get from SP.

In the end, there are many ways of going about becoming more game skill savvy. But I do think these guys would be able to give you ideas that fit your skill level a little better if they could see you play. It is your choice. But.....it could help. You would likely also benefit from filming yourself and watching for yourself whether you show other people or not.

Above Lodro linked to the thread where, if you posted video, only guys who know what they are talking about would be allowed to comment on the footage. On the other hand, if you wanted to send Lula and/or NDH footage in a PM so only they could see, it might be useful as well.

Lula · Feb 26, 2022

Different rubbers could slow down the game but you must enjoy it too! You could try and see if you like it 😀

Basmundo · Feb 26, 2022

UpSideDownCarl said:
Barry, Good to see you back on the forum.

Any chance you can post video in that video safe thread so guys like NDH and Lula can see and assess your playing and have a better basis for telling you things that could help?

One thing to know about level, if you are playing a group of guys where you consistently can only get 3 or 4 points per game, they are simply a higher level than you. And my understanding of how your level goes up is playing experience. For an older guy, playing experience does not necessarily mean lots of footwork drills. It may mean reading and responding to spin in a more wily and/or deceitful manner.

I know a guy who makes jokes about one of his "loop" shots and calls it: a "Heavy No-Spin Loop". People who don't read it correctly respond to it as if it is a loop but it has empty spin like what you would get from SP.

In the end, there are many ways of going about becoming more game skill savvy. But I do think these guys would be able to give you ideas that fit your skill level a little better if they could see you play. It is your choice. But.....it could help. You would likely also benefit from filming yourself and watching for yourself whether you show other people or not.

Above Lodro linked to the thread where, if you posted video, only guys who know what they are talking about would be allowed to comment on the footage. On the other hand, if you wanted to send Lula and/or NDH footage in a PM so only they could see, it might be useful as well.

Hello Carl
Good to hear from you too. I hope that all is well with you. I follow your Instagram posts so do keep up with your news to some extent.
Thanks for your constructive comments as always. I will have to see if I can set up the ability to film myself playing as suggested.

pilami · Feb 26, 2022

Xia Lian NI 58 years old and world ranked #40. She plays with short pips + long pips.

pingpongpaddy · Feb 27, 2022

Basmundo said:
Thanks pingpong daddy. Very interesting comments and good advice, especially taking the ball earlier. Do you use the moristo with sponge and on what type of blade please? Is that rubber fairly insensitive to spin from opponents serves etc?
Thanks again.

hi basmundo

i am a PADDY not a daddy!

Moristo is a Nittaku sp. It is the same pips that Mima Ito uses on her backhand . very fast and ideal for a fast counterhitting style.
while its very capable for spin serving like most sp enables you to punch through opponents spin when required.
Probably you need to practice minimum 3 times a week to get the best out of this high performance rubber.
Its a very enjoyable rubber to use

good luck

NDH · Feb 27, 2022

Basmundo said:
I have played a couple of matches in our Colchester Div. 3 and won 5 out of 6 games. I am probably aspiring to Div. 2 or 1 when our league has a premiership division so add a division to those numbers. I get the opportunity to have a game with our Div. 1 players on occasions and can't get near them; maybe taking 3 or 4 points an end.

I have a good topspin game which is my preference as I enjoy it but the good players don't give me the time that I need to use it and I am prepared to change my game to stay competitive.

Hey Barry - So this statement tells me a lot (I think!)

Based on your level (purely on the info above), and your willingness to change your style to stay competitive…. I’d almost certainly change to a pimple bat.

Now, the argument would be that “staying competitive” means to stay at the same level you are, and compete at that level for longer.

Based on you winning 5/6, I’d say your style is already suited to that goal, and there’s nothing you need to change.

However, if you DO want the opportunity to be more competitive against the higher division players, I do think the pimples would help.

Caveat - This advice would be better if we had a minute of you playing in video, and it’s also dependant on my comparisons with the local leagues I play in.

When I look at those players who are in a similar position to you, I generally see that outside of the premier division (or division 1 if it’s a strong league), players struggle with guys who are good at using their pimples.

They will typically have lovely topspin shots, and at times produce rallies that look spectacular. But get an awkward player who knows what they are doing on the table, and their level drops significantly.

IF this applies to those players who are beating you 11-4 at the moment, then yes, pimples would help.

But again, it will depend on how quickly you can adapt to them. If you don’t adapt quickly, you’ll end up dropping your overall level and potentially lose to the players you are beating at the moment!

I think short pips would be the way to go.

The awkwardness and lack of time for opposition would give you a big advantage, and it’s then just practicing your game plans to take those big wins!

langel · Feb 27, 2022

Try to keep your opponent close to the table with balls as close to the net as possible and as low as possible.
Be ready to diverse with changing temp and placement and to attack.
Use every suitable ball to place the ball out of your opponent zone of comfort or even out of reach. With good techniques and tactics you could do it with mind over speed.

Basmundo · Feb 27, 2022

NDH said:
Hey Barry - So this statement tells me a lot (I think!)

Based on your level (purely on the info above), and your willingness to change your style to stay competitive…. I’d almost certainly change to a pimple bat.

Now, the argument would be that “staying competitive” means to stay at the same level you are, and compete at that level for longer.

Based on you winning 5/6, I’d say your style is already suited to that goal, and there’s nothing you need to change.

However, if you DO want the opportunity to be more competitive against the higher division players, I do think the pimples would help.

Caveat - This advice would be better if we had a minute of you playing in video, and it’s also dependant on my comparisons with the local leagues I play in.

When I look at those players who are in a similar position to you, I generally see that outside of the premier division (or division 1 if it’s a strong league), players struggle with guys who are good at using their pimples.

They will typically have lovely topspin shots, and at times produce rallies that look spectacular. But get an awkward player who knows what they are doing on the table, and their level drops significantly.

IF this applies to those players who are beating you 11-4 at the moment, then yes, pimples would help.

But again, it will depend on how quickly you can adapt to them. If you don’t adapt quickly, you’ll end up dropping your overall level and potentially lose to the players you are beating at the moment!

I think short pips would be the way to go.

The awkwardness and lack of time for opposition would give you a big advantage, and it’s then just practicing your game plans to take those big wins!

Good morning NDH
Your advice sounds similar to my thoughts. I definitely want to increase my standard of play and in particular my competitiveness. Your assessment of my current situation is also spot on.
What I am wondering is whether to just change my BH rubber to pimples and maybe have a more controllable inverted rubber on the FH to retain the ability to loop drive when the opportunity arises.
I have a DMS blade that has been lent to me that has a very old inverted rubber on the FH (Killerspin - Nitrx 4z) and Winning NP8 Super short pips rubber on the BH with 1.5 mm sponge. The blade is a classic combination type that has a slower BH side than the FH and I am not sure if that is the right approach for using short pips or if rather they need to be on a fairly stiff/fast blade to get the best results and with MAX sponge.

Help needed by an oldie

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