Europe Top 16 2022

Manto76 said:

I'm not so sure - that seems a bit overboard to me.

I agree that there should be some consequence, but the consequence should be proportionate to the wrongdoing and a season ban seems too much. Maybe 3 months as suggested by SFF_lib is better?

How are similar transgressions penalised in tennis, for example? What about docking players 5% (for example) of their ITTF world ranking points?

We certainly want professional sportspeople to behave like professionals but, at the same time, we don't want pro-level sport to become entirely sterile. Players should be allowed to express frustration, anger, joy, etc within reasonable boundaries - and suffer proportionate penalties if they go too far.

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That’s a good point. We don’t want over-harsh punishment that eliminates half the pro-level players.

China seems harsh in discipline. Zhang Jike got kicked back to provincial team due to intention disobedience in the national team. He also got his prize taken away after destroying a advertisement board.

Wang chuqin got banned for 3 months after throwing his racket at the end of a match.

Grand slam winner Zhang Yining willingly gave up the last point of a match. She got banned for a few months due to her attitude.

These are just well known examples. Many lesser known 2nd tier players got kicked out without anyone knowing.

Despite these harsh discipline we still see lots of top players coming out of China.

Manto76 said:

I'm not so sure - that seems a bit overboard to me.

I agree that there should be some consequence, but the consequence should be proportionate to the wrongdoing and a season ban seems too much. Maybe 3 months as suggested by SFF_lib is better?

How are similar transgressions penalised in tennis, for example? What about docking players 5% (for example) of their ITTF world ranking points?

We certainly want professional sportspeople to behave like professionals but, at the same time, we don't want pro-level sport to become entirely sterile. Players should be allowed to express frustration, anger, joy, etc within reasonable boundaries - and suffer proportionate penalties if they go too far.

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Sterile, after a season ban, I don't think so. There is plenty of room to still show your anger, frustration, but throwing your TT bat like that, seems to me extremely unprofessional. The problem with keeping the penalties very low, is that nobody takes them seriously, but I also agree that small penalties definitely have their place. Perhaps, It's just me who finds that behavior from Truls so vile.

Amit Mehta said:

Sterile, after a season ban, I don't think so. There is plenty of room to still show your anger, frustration, but throwing your TT bat like that, seems to me extremely unprofessional. The problem with keeping the penalties very low, is that nobody takes them seriously, but I also agree that small penalties definitely have their place. Perhaps, It's just me who finds that behavior from Truls so vile.

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You're not alone in disapproving of Truls' behaviour, but that's not the issue. The issue is twofold:

(1) What behaviour crosses the line of acceptability in a professional context?
(2) If behaviour is deemed to cross the line, what penalty is proportionate?

As to (1) above, the fact that you and I (and, I'm sure, others) disapprove of a particular behaviour isn't enough to make it penalizable. Imagine, for example, if every time a lawyer lost his/her temper and threw a pen on the floor he/she was penalised. Or if a surgeon got frustrated with niggly equipment and kicked the heart-rate monitor in the surgery. Unprofessional behaviours? Yes. Worthy of some form of penalty? Hmmm ... I think not. Now, in principle, why should the standards of professional etiquette - and the allowances for minor breaches of those standards - be different for a professional sportsperson compared to any other professional?

As to (2) above, even if a momentary display of anger and the resulting breach of professional etiquette does cross the line and warrant a penalty, the penalty must be proportionate. In my opinion barring a professional from access to their profession (and thus their financial livelihood) for as long as a year would be a very serious thing.

Harsh penalty for the biggest young star ion the TT universe?
Remember how they treated John McEnroe? or the first time a big baseball star confronted the umpire?

It's all entertainment. More entertainment = more exposure = more money for promoters

Jeppe950 said:

I don't think Truls will ever reach WR1, but I think he will at worst reach the top 10 if he doesn't succumb to injuries.

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So basically u hate Truls Moregardh

It is a bad behaviour,but bear in mind how old he is.
On the other side he should be punished,with anger managment or meditation classes.
But i totally get that some of the disciplinary measures especially for chinese Players are way over board,and they face a esload of pressure to perform,but that comes from someone living in Germany.

Haraold said:

It is a bad behaviour,but bear in mind how old he is.
....

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Truls is less than 20 years from retirement

I can't help think this is an overreaction to a relatively insignificant incident - a young guy caught up in a very competitive situation expressing some frustration. Look at top tier tennis as a comparator - far older and more experienced top level players regularly lose control momentarily - Novak hitting a ball at a ball girl, Zverev smashing his racquet on the umpires chair to name but two recent examples. In these cases they were DQ'd from the tournament and maybe fined - but that's it and for far worse than Truls behaviour here.

Pretty much all sports have similar examples and they are mostly dealt with appropriately - a season ban is surely way over the top here.

My view is he is a very exciting young competitor and I love watching him play - I also enjoy his drive and aggression and spirit when playing, it adds to the enjoyment for me (as it did back in the day watching McEnroe lose control - and then play better and win..)

Truls should be punished by forcing him to play with a normal shaped bat in his next tournament.

Brs said:

Truls should be punished by forcing him to play with a normal shaped bat in his next tournament.

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Now that's a sanction I can get behind...

Wrighty67 said:

I can't help think this is an overreaction to a relatively insignificant incident - a young guy caught up in a very competitive situation expressing some frustration. Look at top tier tennis as a comparator - far older and more experienced top level players regularly lose control momentarily - Novak hitting a ball at a ball girl, Zverev smashing his racquet on the umpires chair to name but two recent examples. In these cases they were DQ'd from the tournament and maybe fined - but that's it and for far worse than Truls behaviour here.

Pretty much all sports have similar examples and they are mostly dealt with appropriately - a season ban is surely way over the top here.

My view is he is a very exciting young competitor and I love watching him play - I also enjoy his drive and aggression and spirit when playing, it adds to the enjoyment for me (as it did back in the day watching McEnroe lose control - and then play better and win..)

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I think in some sense, you can argue that it is a relatively insignificant incident, but at the same time, it was acted out as an emotional outbreak, the fact that he threw his racket so hard onto the ground (and given that racket is of a different shape than normal, there is every possibility that it can bounce and deviate from a straight path and either hit the referee or the opponent. Do we then call it a significant incident then and when someone is actually injured? Or would it be better to actually prevent this from happening?

I like watching Truls play, young and rising European star indeed. Yes we do want players showing their emotions, but this is also a world stage event where they might be role models to kids growing up. Do we want to see kids starting to throw their racket everytime they are frustrated? Surely there are more appropriate ways to express emotions..

It’s also about choosing which emotion to express.

For Zhang Jike, he was never shy to show his pride, passion and the thirst for winning. But he was tough enough to suppress his frustration. He has never been disrespectful from what I remember.

JeffM said:

I think in some sense, you can argue that it is a relatively insignificant incident, but at the same time, it was acted out as an emotional outbreak, the fact that he threw his racket so hard onto the ground (and given that racket is of a different shape than normal, there is every possibility that it can bounce and deviate from a straight path and either hit the referee or the opponent. Do we then call it a significant incident then and when someone is actually injured? Or would it be better to actually prevent this from happening?

I like watching Truls play, young and rising European star indeed. Yes we do want players showing their emotions, but this is also a world stage event where they might be role models to kids growing up. Do we want to see kids starting to throw their racket everytime they are frustrated? Surely there are more appropriate ways to express emotions..

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The reality though is that it was insignificant, and despite what “might” have happened, it didn’t in this case. Looking at the tennis world again, top players break racquets fairly regularly and receive a code violation - it’s only when somebody is actually hit or injured that stronger sanctions are applied.

I don’t think we can apply heavy sanctions based on what might have been but can apply minor sanctions to disincentivise the behaviour.

I agree, it’s not a great example for youngsters but it is reality - emotion and passion are a part of high level sport and the control of these is a fine line for all competitors. Every week there will be some example of a slip (Rugby, tennis, boxing etc are some recent examples) I think if it becomes the norm for a player then it needs a harsher sanction, but if it’s a one off, then to apply a sanction, as has been suggested here, of a season ban is not appropriate.

Balance is the key here for me.

I've been reading this thread (without having seen any of the "incident"), and I honestly thought Truls had launched his bat at someones head and caused severe damage! 😂

Now, I am very against any form of equipment abuse..... Mainly because it's far too expensive to replace 😂 But I also think it's childish and pathetic.

I've played sports all my life, and I've never taken my frustration out on the equipment (be that Golf, Tennis, Cricket, Table Tennis - You name it).

It frustrates the hell out of me when I see pro players do this - Especially the childish actions of some pro Tennis players......

But..... Let's put this into perspective....... The only reason it looked mildly bad from Truls, is because of the Cybershape! 😂

If he was using a normal bat, it would have simply bounced back up and no one would care!

Personally, I find the over the top celebrations, before you've acknowledged your opponent to be much worse.

It seems to be a trend in Table Tennis, and I'm not sure why it happens, but it just seems out of order to me.

You win, you shake your opponents hand (or fist bump because we live in the new world) and then you can do what you want!

None of this over the top celebrating before you've even fist bumped your opponents hand please.......

I'm not sure about this, but with the Cybershape I'm wondering if the risk is higher that he hurts himself depending on how it bounces off the ground.

NDH said:

Personally, I find the over the top celebrations, before you've acknowledged your opponent to be much worse.

None of this over the top celebrating before you've even fist bumped your opponents hand please.......

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100% agree. It's disrespectful - which is worse than a momentary loss of temper.

Manto76 said:

100% agree. It's disrespectful - which is worse than a momentary loss of temper.

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It’s Ma Long’s style. He jumped on the table before giving a handshake to Fang Bo in 2015.

No worse than excessive chooooooing....

Cheers
L-zr

Europe Top 16 Cup-2022 (also known as the 2022 CCB Europe Top-16 Cup after its main sponsor) is a table tennis competition that will be held February 26-27, 2022 in Montreux, Switzerland, organized by European Table Tennis Union (ETTU). This will be the 51st edition of the Europe Top 16 Cup series and the sixth time it has been held in Switzerland.The tournament will be held in men's singles and women's singles.