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  1. SFF_lib is offline
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    #1

    WTT Star Contender Doha 2022

    Lets discuss WTT Star Contender Doha 2022


    Hugo Calderano enters as number 1 seed (Photo via: WTT Flickr)

    A question about qualification round.

    Xu Haidong had played quite well and won all matches in the qualification rounds. However, I don't see his name in round 32. Why is that?

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    #2
    I've double checked as well but couldn't find him elsewhere. Is it due to injury?

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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Ksh
    I've double checked as well but couldn't find him elsewhere. Is it due to injury?

    I thought I don't understand all the rules. Maybe there're some rules that dictate the result?

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SFF_lib

    I thought I don't understand all the rules. Maybe there're some rules that dictate the result?

    I've already seen this.
    For example, Zhao Zihao, about whom I wrote in a separate topic, won the qualification at the Swedish Open-2016.
    But for some reason he didn't play in the main round.
    It's some kind of Chinese trick.
    With what, I don't know


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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by GAOdp

    I've already seen this.
    For example, Zhao Zihao, about whom I wrote in a separate topic, won the qualification at the Swedish Open-2016.
    But for some reason he didn't play in the main round.
    It's some kind of Chinese trick.
    With what, I don't know

    I was looking forward to seeing him play in the main draw. Quite disappointing.


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    #6
    Does anyone have the video/ link to watch Hugo Calderano vs Liu Ding Shuo?
    I was waiting for WTT to post the highlight video but they have posted all the other ones and not this one..

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JeffM
    Does anyone have the video/ link to watch Hugo Calderano vs Liu Ding Shuo?
    I was waiting for WTT to post the highlight video but they have posted all the other ones and not this one..

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    #8
    How does Alexis Lebrun beat these top players so easily? Amazing ball control but the power is ridiculous.

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    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    How does Alexis Lebrun beat these top players so easily? Amazing ball control but the power is ridiculous.

    Tricky serves getting him lots of easy third balls. No doubt about the power.


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    #10

    Alex doesn't play that physical, indeed he varies the serves A LOT ! never the same, never from the same place, and never with the same speed, spin or trajectory. He makes the opponents feeling unsafe with the receive, I mean... who can serve aces with a "reverse" FH tomahawk serve nowadays ? he has done 2 aces vs An Jaehyun with this tomahawk kind of serve As he's quite new on the WTT Tour, the guys don't know him that well and are really disturbed by that strategy. Most of the time offensive players serve FH pendulum on their backhand side of the table to have a more powerfull FH oriented game, but not him as he's got a strong backhand that he's also using with a lot of variations: block, chop block, short pushes with or without ! backspin, killers or loopers, his backhand is probably the best now on the tour because he's the ones who varies it the most. He's also very smart: he does mind at all not pushes the ball once more than his opponent to secure the short game and force him to loop in difficult situations to block him easily and counter-attack, he's like Waldner in that way. It's not only the 3rd ball attack neither: he's got an awesome receive, he reads very well the opponent's serves and doesn't mind attacking it with his amazing backhand. If it's on the forehand, he doesn't mind using really short and low pushes as he's got as you mentioned a oustanding ball control on both sides, so not that physical game, but a very clever and effective one.

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    Last edited by OldUser; 03-24-2022 at 09:42 AM.

  11. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #11
    @NextLevel
    so is Adriana Diaz still a top10 player ? Kihara just ousted her 3-0

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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi
    @NextLevel
    so is Adriana Diaz still a top10 player ? Kihara just ousted her 3-0
    https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uplo...13_SEN_WS.html

    That is her current ranking. Is her ranking falsified by losing a match, or is it an achievement that is true until she leaves the top 10?

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  13. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uplo...13_SEN_WS.html

    That is her current ranking. Is her ranking falsified by losing a match, or is it an achievement that is true until she leaves the top 10?

    thats my point, she should enjoy her current ranking because its not gonna last, its been inflated. a bit like Gauzy or Falck. regarding Diaz,we know that continental results give relatively too many free points to the weaker continents champions.

    anyway i think the more correct question is, if we leave Chinese players apart, who is the limited club of players which very seldom loses to non-chinese players ?
    in Men's not so long ago, i would argue Dima Boll and Mizutani were in that club. Harimoto is (was ? - now he loses anybody - ) in that club as well.
    Falck or Moregard even though they got silver at WTTC don't really belong to that club IMO.

    In Women's a younger Feng Tianwei, Ishikawa, Ito, now Hayata, Doo Hoi Kem and Cheng I Ching fit that description whether its top 10 or just below. I don't think Adriana is into that club (yet). in WTTC he got to 4th round and played a good match against SYS but she had a very easy draw. her continental results gave her good seeding and she had lucky draws recently. I think she needs to prove a bit more. being able to keep a top ranking is the real thing.


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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi

    thats my point, she should enjoy her current ranking because its not gonna last, its been inflated. a bit like Gauzy or Falck. regarding Diaz,we know that continental results give relatively too many free points to the weaker continents champions.

    anyway i think the more correct question is, if we leave Chinese players apart, who is the limited club of players which very seldom loses to non-chinese players ?
    in Men's not so long ago, i would argue Dima Boll and Mizutani were in that club. Harimoto is (was ? - now he loses anybody - ) in that club as well.
    Falck or Moregard even though they got silver at WTTC don't really belong to that club IMO.

    In Women's a younger Feng Tianwei, Ishikawa, Ito, now Hayata, Doo Hoi Kem and Cheng I Ching fit that description whether its top 10 or just below. I don't think Adriana is into that club (yet). in WTTC he got to 4th round and played a good match against SYS but she had a very easy draw. her continental results gave her good seeding and she had lucky draws recently. I think she needs to prove a bit more. being able to keep a top ranking is the real thing.

    Why should we leave Chinese players apart? Because it shows the bias in your logic?

    We can disagree on Adriana but to me she is clearly qs strong and possibly stronger than any of the women in Europe and is only 21. She has time to learn from and fix some of these things.

    Cheng I Ching lost to Linda Bergstrom yesterday. Did you ask whether Cheng I Ching is top 10?

    I used to think Adriana and Lily Zhang were in the same class at one time (probably a silly nationalism affected by a view of Adriana's fitness). Then I saw Adriana play Ishikawa and realized that Adriana had a better game than I gave her credit for and that was when I decided that with her age she was going to be top 10. It happened sooner than I expected but I don't even think she is at her peak. She is just a quality player. So is Kihara by the way, and good players can lose to other good players any time, regardless of ranking.

    With the depth of the Chinese and Japanese national teams in women, or the depth of Asia and the very top European countries in mens, what top 10 really means is up to anyone to define but claiming that someone isn't top 10 on the basis of one result when they have shown it with other results and most importantly their ranking is just an attempt to see what you want to see.

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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  15. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    Why should we leave Chinese players apart? Because it shows the bias in your logic?

    We can disagree on Adriana but to me she is clearly qs strong and possibly stronger than any of the women in Europe and is only 21. She has time to learn from and fix some of these things.

    Cheng I Ching lost to Linda Bergstrom yesterday. Did you ask whether Cheng I Ching is top 10?

    I used to think Adriana and Lily Zhang were in the same class at one time (probably a silly nationalism affected by a view of Adriana's fitness). Then I saw Adriana play Ishikawa and realized that Adriana had a better game than I gave her credit for and that was when I decided that with her age she was going to be top 10. It happened sooner than I expected but I don't even think she is at her peak. She is just a quality player. So is Kihara by the way, and good players can lose to other good players any time, regardless of ranking.

    With the depth of the Chinese and Japanese national teams in women, or the depth of Asia and the very top European countries in mens, what top 10 really means is up to anyone to define but claiming that someone isn't top 10 on the basis of one result when they have shown it with other results and most importantly their ranking is just an attempt to see what you want to see.

    Personally i think Cheng I-Ching is already past her peak. She's over 30. She got her Olympic medal last year (mixed doubles), and there is no individual WTTC this year. Its normal for her motivation and performance to go down from here.

    Yes Adriana is still young. Future will tell. I'm ready to take the under that we've seen already peak Adriana in terms of WR.
    She's a good and entertaining player. Her top10 is really a delight to watch again and again, but still i think she's a bit overhyped, and she lacks consistency.

    as a reminder here are her latest results from H2 2021

    Olympics
    3rd round (she got a bye for 1st and 2nd round as 9th seed)
    vs Liu Jia 0-4

    WTT Contender Tunis
    vs Mostafavi 3-0
    vs Bergstrom 3-1
    vs Shao Jieni 3-0
    vs Yang Xiaoxin 3-4

    WTT Contender Lazko
    vs Vovk 3-0
    vs Zeng 0-3

    WTTC Houston
    vs Toliou 4-0
    vs Kukulkova 4-0
    vs Chen YS 4-2
    vs Sun Yingsha 2-4

    WTT finals
    vs Wang Yidi 1-3

    WTT Contender Muscat
    vs Fan Siqi 1-3

    WTT Smash Singapore
    vs Jeger 3-0
    vs Shao Jieni 3-1
    vs Wang Manyu 0-3

    I cannot say I'm impressed

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi

    Personally i think Cheng I-Ching is already past her peak. She's over 30. She got her Olympic medal last year (mixed doubles), and there is no individual WTTC this year. Its normal for her motivation and performance to go down from here.

    Yes Adriana is still young. Future will tell. I'm ready to take the under that we've seen already peak Adriana in terms of WR.
    She's a good and entertaining player. Her top10 is really a delight to watch again and again, but still i think she's a bit overhyped, and she lacks consistency.

    as a reminder here are her latest results from H2 2021

    Olympics
    3rd round (she got a bye for 1st and 2nd round as 9th seed)
    vs Liu Jia 0-4

    WTT Contender Tunis
    vs Mostafavi 3-0
    vs Bergstrom 3-1
    vs Shao Jieni 3-0
    vs Yang Xiaoxin 3-4

    WTT Contender Lazko
    vs Vovk 3-0
    vs Zeng 0-3

    WTTC Houston
    vs Toliou 4-0
    vs Kukulkova 4-0
    vs Chen YS 4-2
    vs Sun Yingsha 2-4

    WTT finals
    vs Wang Yidi 1-3

    WTT Contender Muscat
    vs Fan Siqi 1-3

    WTT Smash Singapore
    vs Jeger 3-0
    vs Shao Jieni 3-1
    vs Wang Manyu 0-3

    I cannot say I'm impressed

    You don't have to be impressed. Like I said, World Ranking is not based on one match, it is based on a weighted average of your best results. You are looking at what you want to focus on - you are skipping lots of wins and interesting matches played over the past year, from wins over the likes of Yu Mengyu of Singapore or Yu Fu of Portugal, players who give other players fits. Even the win of Chen YS is clearly a very strong win, but you see it as something that isn't impressive. All those losses are to strong Asian (usually Chinese) players.

    We can agree to disagree on this one - the girl has her ranking and you clearly don't like her, just like some don't like Wong Chun Ting or Koki Niwa. It doesn't say anything about her level. No doubt she is not at the level of the Chinese or Japanese, but again, no one defined top 10 by beating the Chinese or Japanese. Well, that said, I know you think one has to be able to beat the Chinese to do well for Japan so I guess what we are looking at is different.

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    #17
    The Lebrun brothers will be the hope for France, probably the entire Europe. Excellent and well rounded techniques. Very high morale too

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  18. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel

    You don't have to be impressed. Like I said, World Ranking is not based on one match, it is based on a weighted average of your best results. You are looking at what you want to focus on - you are skipping lots of wins and interesting matches played over the past year, from wins over the likes of Yu Mengyu of Singapore or Yu Fu of Portugal, players who give other players fits. Even the win of Chen YS is clearly a very strong win, but you see it as something that isn't impressive. All those losses are to strong Asian (usually Chinese) players.

    We can agree to disagree on this one - the girl has her ranking and you clearly don't like her, just like some don't like Wong Chun Ting or Koki Niwa. It doesn't say anything about her level. No doubt she is not at the level of the Chinese or Japanese, but again, no one defined top 10 by beating the Chinese or Japanese. Well, that said, I know you think one has to be able to beat the Chinese to do well for Japan so I guess what we are looking at is different.

    i know you know, and pretend not knowing, but for those who don't, the full regulation for the WTT ranking is here
    https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uplo...20220130-1.pdf

    continental cup gives 500 to the winner, while a QF participation is only 90 points. winner also is automatically qualified to World Cup which gives 50 points minimum.
    continental champs is also 500 points

    Diaz nearest rival is Bruna Takahashi ranked 31 (and probably overrated too), last Asian champs there were 4 top chinese players in semis... Even European level is more dense than North America or PanAm+South America (or Australia / Middle-Asia...)

    Anyway, remind me in 1 year time, and lets look at her stats again. i think Diaz will be doing better than I expect if she manages to stay in top16
    btw CHEN SY is currently ranked 27 and FU Yu 38. Personally I think Diaz ranking belongs to 17-32 bracket.

    I'll be happy to be wrong and to watch some exciting performance of Diaz, but as a neutral observer, I have some reservations.

    There are exceptions. The one continental player which is REALLY getting very good results recently is Quadri ARUNA. His (improved) punchy BH is a bit unusual at this level, but he's been very consistent with it.

    PS
    RatingsCentral ranks Diaz at 37
    https://www.ratingscentral.com/ProPl...PlayerGender=F

    Last edited by Takkyu_wa_inochi; 03-29-2022 at 02:08 PM.

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    #19
    Why do they switch out broadcasts on T1?

    Few matches with Adam + Side Angle + fancy product, few with corner angle + cheap replays.

    It's so inconsistent. Shame they can't have the best of both too.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Takkyu_wa_inochi

    i know you know, and pretend not knowing, but for those who don't, the full regulation for the WTT ranking is here
    https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uplo...20220130-1.pdf

    continental cup gives 500 to the winner, while a QF participation is only 90 points. winner also is automatically qualified to World Cup which gives 50 points minimum.
    continental champs is also 500 points

    Diaz nearest rival is Bruna Takahashi ranked 31 (and probably overrated too), last Asian champs there were 4 top chinese players in semis... Even European level is more dense than North America or PanAm+South America (or Australia / Middle-Asia...)

    Anyway, remind me in 1 year time, and lets look at her stats again. i think Diaz will be doing better than I expect if she manages to stay in top16
    btw CHEN SY is currently ranked 27 and FU Yu 38. Personally I think Diaz ranking belongs to 17-32 bracket.

    I'll be happy to be wrong and to watch some exciting performance of Diaz, but as a neutral observer, I have some reservations.

    There are exceptions. The one continental player which is REALLY getting very good results recently is Quadri ARUNA. His (improved) punchy BH is a bit unusual at this level, but he's been very consistent with it.

    This is another weird post. If we wanted to do rankings and China let all its top players play on tour, would Mima Ito be top 10?

    Hugo has been #4 as a continental player benefitting from these extra point provisions and often falls short of his ranking though he has wins here and there. Quadri benefits from them as well, though he sometimes shares that benefit with Assar and while he sometimes outperforms his ranking, he sometimes falls short of it as well. Kanak benefits as well, and has defended his ranking multiple times, while also falling short of it on occasion. Bruna and Lily, same thing, sometimes falls short, but often benefits. But Adriana is clearly better than Lily and Bruna to me, I don't think about it anymore. Adriana will continue to get better as she plays against more good players on a consistent basis.

    What makes this discussion all the more weird is that Diaz lost to Kihaara at 13, 10 and 9. The way you describe it, someone would think it was 3-0 with scores at 3,4 and 5.

    Kihaara has played in higher level competitions than Diaz almost all her life and was a Japanese Champs runner up a few years ago and has been on the world stage for doubles. Other than maybe Polcanova, none of the top European ladies would be similarly competitive against Kihaara. Yet this is the reason why Diaz is not top 10?

    Your opinion is okay. To me, it is obvious that when it comes to players outside Asia, Diaz is at the very top of that group. That is why to me it was obvious that since she plays Asian ladies reasonably well, that she can be top 10 in ranking. Top 10 in ranking doesn't mean that one is top 10 in *strength* all the time. But for me, if Diaz played in Europe, she could be the best lady player in Europe and that is enough. She is also young (21) so there is some development left. She is a very good player and she trains in Asia a lot, though she still has to get more and more competitive exposure which will continue to come with maturity and experience. Over time, her career trajectory will look more and more like Quadri, time permitting (with women, you never know).

    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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