Custom blade by my regular vendor

Gozo Aruna · Mar 28, 2022

Hi good people of TTD,

I have been using the Ariex GT 10mm One Ply Hinoki for a while and I am loving it and by golly! I have not EJ'ed for sometime already.

My vendor who sold me the above blade approached me again recently and offered to make a custom 11mm One Ply shake-hand blade using the highest grade hinoki which he said is available in stock at the moment. He called it the Royal Version.

I am tempted but what do you all think, is 11mm over the top? Is it playable for a shakehand One ply hinoki blade?

The weight will be over 200g once two pieces of tensor rubber are glued on it.

lodro · Mar 28, 2022

Gozo said:
Hi good people of TTD,

I have been using the Ariex GT 10mm One Ply Hinoki for a while and I am loving it and by golly! I have not EJ'ed for sometime already.

My vendor who sold me the above blade approached me again recently and offered to make a custom 11mm One Ply shake-hand blade using the highest grade hinoki which he said is available in stock at the moment. He called it the Royal Version.

I am tempted but what do you all think, is 11mm over the top? Is it playable for a shakehand One ply hinoki blade?

The weight will be over 200g once two pieces of tensor rubber are glued on it.

200g is not even considered as being heavy.......................

Gozo Aruna · Mar 28, 2022

lodro said:
200g is not even considered as being heavy.......................

For reference, what is the upper limit of functional weight? I mean at what grammage does one consider it to become too unwieldy generally.

Lazer · Mar 28, 2022

If you like that type of blade, go for it…

Cheers
L-zr

cytivrat · Mar 28, 2022

My current setup is ~189g. A year ago I though that 185 is my maximum comfort weight. I used to be very sensitive to smallest weight change. Now I do some excercises to strengthen my arm and wrist and I think I can try something around 192-193, maybe up to 195g.
Some time ago I wanted to try boosting with baby oil on my old rubbers and blade, made it 206g. Well it was playable, especially on FH, but it was hard to use wrist on BH, and I was forced either to switch to FH after first BH stroke or be more passive there. Also that increased time to switch from FH to BH and vice versa. But that almost didn't influence my results,maybe just a little bit less satisfaction.

I believe that there are people who will be quite comfortable with 200g and more, especially if they perform some special training, not just playing tt. On the other side, I don't think that average amateur player should play with something havier than 185-190g

What is your current setup weight? If adding that 1mm will add like 4-5g, why not to try it?

dajdosta · Mar 28, 2022

I would recommend to try something similar before making such a drastic change.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 28, 2022

dajdosta said:
I would recommend to try something similar before making such a drastic change.

Maybe you did not read my original post aka Post No. 1.

I am already using the same brand 10mm One Ply Hinoki. The same vendor is now offering me an upgrade, i.e., a higher grade wood with an option to custom made the blade to 11mm thick. He said he has the material at the moment. Hence my question here, whether 11mm is still playable or not. Thanks.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 28, 2022

cytivrat said:
My current setup is ~189g. A year ago I though that 185 is my maximum comfort weight. I used to be very sensible to snallest weight change. Now I do some excercises to strengthen my arm and wrist and I think I can try something around 192-193, maybe up to 195g.
Some time ago I wanted to try boosting with baby oil on my old rubbers and blade, made it 206g. Well it was playable, especially on FH, but it was hard to use wrist on BH, and I was forced either to switch to FH after first BH stroke or be more passive there. Also that increased time to switch from FH to BH and vice versa. But that almost didn't influence my results,maybe just a little bit less satisfaction.

I believe that there are people who will be quite comfortable with 200g and more, especially if they perform some special training, not just playing tt. On the other side, I don't think that average amateur player should play with something havier than 185-190g

What is your current setup weight? If adding that 1mm will add like 4-5g, why not to try it?

My current set up is around 200-210g. If I use the 11mm, I think the weight would go to 220g or more.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 30, 2022

Just weighed my current set-up.

One ply Hinoki 10mm + 2 sheets of Donic Bluefire M1 = 218g.

I hazard a guess, if 11mm and using the same rubber would be around 225g ish.

I wonder if that would be too heavy for normal hobbyist or not.

cytivrat · Mar 30, 2022

I think 218 is already too heavy for hobbist, but that doesn't make you want to change your setup

If new wood has the same density, then it might be even over 230. And it will shift weight to the head a little bit more so it make it feel even heavier. Only you can tell whether it is ok for you or not.
Can you try temporary add some weight to the head of your racket to see if you can still perform different swings without inconvenience due to weight (without ball, table and opponent)?

lodro · Mar 30, 2022

Gozo said:
Just weighed my current set-up.

One ply Hinoki 10mm + 2 sheets of Donic Bluefire M1 = 218g.

I hazard a guess, if 11mm and using the same rubber would be around 225g ish.

I wonder if that would be too heavy for normal hobbyist or not.

Of course it will NEVER just be a matter of the total weight but the weight distribution.
However, one might have to conclude that when using a thick fat blade the blade would be "head-heavy"
Let us know if you broke your wrist.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 30, 2022

cytivrat said:
I think 218 is already too heavy for hobbist, but that doesn't make you want to change your setup
If new wood has the same density, then it might be even over 230. And it will shift weight to the head a little bit more so it make it feel even heavier. Only you can tell whether it is ok for you or not.
Can you try temporary add some weight to the head of your racket to see if you can still perform different swings without inconvenience due to weight (without ball, table and opponent)?

Not changing coz' I'm having a smashing good time. Literally!

UpSideDownCarl · Mar 30, 2022

Gozo said:
For reference, what is the upper limit of functional weight? I mean at what grammage does one consider it to become too unwieldy generally.

This would be something to be determined by the person holding the racket. This question is kind of like asking someone else how much weight you can bench press.

More weight in a racket, more mass behind the ball on contact. The limiting factor is when the weight starts slowing down your racket speed.

1mm is not really a lot. But when you consider that 10mm is 4mm thicker than a standard multiply blade and 5.7mm is the thickness of a nice flexy blade, and then you consider that if you are using a blade that is over 7mm thick while playing shakehand, it actually limits certain actions in manipulating and controlling the blade face while making certain kinds of shots......you would really have to decide for yourself.

I like thin blades because they give me more to manipulate in my hand. I feel like 7mm feels really blocky, thick and kind of clumsy. I love the feeling of a Darker Speed 90 on contact. But for me, I don't like having a blade that is that thick in my hand. If I was playing penhold, I am not sure that would matter to me because you can use your wrist so much more with a penhold grip. So, this may be why, traditionally, peholders are the ones who use the 10 and 11mm One Ply Hinoki blades.

But it really would be a personal choice. If you like the 10mm blade, you might like the 11mm blade. And just because your 10mm blade is one weight, does not say anything about what the 11mm blade will weigh. Wood is complicated.

Do you feel that your 10mm blade head heavy? If the answer is no, then I doubt you would feel that the 11mm would be any more head heavy. The ratio of wood added to the handle and wood added to the blade face should be the same.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 30, 2022

UpSideDownCarl said:
This would be something to be determined by the person holding the racket. This question is kind of like asking someone else how much weight you can bench press.

More weight in a racket, more mass behind the ball on contact. The limiting factor is when the weight starts slowing down your racket speed.

1mm is not really a lot. But when you consider that 10mm is 4mm thicker than a standard multiply blade and 5.7mm is the thickness of a nice flexy blade, and then you consider that if you are using a blade that is over 7mm thick while playing shakehand, it actually limits certain actions in manipulating and controlling the blade face while making certain kinds of shots......you would really have to decide for yourself.

I like thin blades because they give me more to manipulate in my hand. I feel like 7mm feels really blocky, thick and kind of clumsy. I love the feeling of a Darker Speed 90 on contact. But for me, I don't like having a blade that is that thick in my hand. If I was playing penhold, I am not sure that would matter to me because you can use your wrist so much more with a penhold grip. So, this may be why, traditionally, peholders are the ones who use the 10 and 11mm One Ply Hinoki blades.

But it really would be a personal choice. If you like the 10mm blade, you might like the 11mm blade. And just because your 10mm blade is one weight, does not say anything about what the 11mm blade will weigh. Wood is complicated.
Do you feel that your 10mm blade head heavy? If the answer is no, then I doubt you would feel that the 11mm would be any more head heavy. The ratio of wood added to the handle and wood added to the blade face should be the same.

Great explanation Carl.

I do not feel head heavy and I love the feeling of contact when looping too ( I play mainly looper style mostly ).

However, there is one caveat, the weight and bulkiness does limit the type of serves that I can do. However, as I do not rely on ace serve to win my points, I am content with that and prefer set-up serve and let my looping win me the points.

Maybe 11mm is over the top, perhaps I should request the vendor to tone it down to 10.5mm ( I know the great legends KTS & RSM both uses 10.5mm ).

cytivrat · Mar 30, 2022

UpSideDownCarl said:
The ratio of wood added to the handle and wood added to the blade face should be the same.

Let's assume that blade face is 100g, handle is 10 and pieces of wood around handle part which you actually contact with hand (not sure how to call them properly) are additional 10g. (numbers are absolutely random, just to show what I mean). Initial ratio is 100 : (10 + 10) = 100 : 20. Then we add 10% to the wood, having 110: (11 + 10) = 110 : 21. Ratio changed making it a little bit more head heavy. Of course, there are lots of assumptions which might be false. It even might shift balance to the handle, if they change shape of the blade or add some weight to the handle or use different amount of glue inside handle. But in general changing hinoki ply thickness might shift balance to the head, if nothing else changes

Gozo, since this topic exists, means that idea of trying a new blade doesn't let you go. You want us to persuade you to try a new blade or not to try? That will change arguments that people will use

UpSideDownCarl · Mar 30, 2022

cytivrat said:
Let's assume that blade face is 100g, handle is 10 and pieces of wood around handle part which you actually contact with hand (not sure how to call them properly) are additional 10g. (numbers are absolutely random, just to show what I mean). Initial ratio is 100 : (10 + 10) = 100 : 20. Then we add 10% to the wood, having 110: (11 + 10) = 110 : 21. Ratio changed making it a little bit more head heavy. Of course, there are lots of assumptions which might be false. It even might shift balance to the handle, if they change shape of the blade or add some weight to the handle or use different amount of glue inside handle. But in general changing hinoki ply thickness might shift balance to the head, if nothing else changes
Gozo, since this topic exists, means that idea of trying a new blade doesn't let you go. You want us to persuade you to try a new blade or not to try? That will change arguments that people will use

Any good blade maker would know how to add weight to the handle to make any blade handle heavy if he/she wanted to.

There is a reason Gozo does not feel the 10mm One Ply Hinoki blade he is using is notably handle heavy.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 30, 2022

cytivrat said:
Let's assume that blade face is 100g, handle is 10 and pieces of wood around handle part which you actually contact with hand (not sure how to call them properly) are additional 10g. (numbers are absolutely random, just to show what I mean). Initial ratio is 100 : (10 + 10) = 100 : 20. Then we add 10% to the wood, having 110: (11 + 10) = 110 : 21. Ratio changed making it a little bit more head heavy. Of course, there are lots of assumptions which might be false. It even might shift balance to the handle, if they change shape of the blade or add some weight to the handle or use different amount of glue inside handle. But in general changing hinoki ply thickness might shift balance to the head, if nothing else changes
Gozo, since this topic exists, means that idea of trying a new blade doesn't let you go. You want us to persuade you to try a new blade or not to try? That will change arguments that people will use

First and foremost I am tempted to acquire another one ply hinoki for the following reasons:

1. Hinoki wood are difficult to come by. It could be a collectors item.

2. My vendor is offering me a highest grade in his stock which he called the Royal Version and he allows me to customize the blade, the price though is at 20% premium to the commercial grade variant.

3. Customize to 11mm or 10.5mm or whatever is secondary to point no. 2.

4. I am also tempted to increase the handle lenght by 20mm, which I feel is better for power looping. My current unit handle is 100mm long. I am thinking to customize it to 120mm long.

Gozo Aruna · Mar 30, 2022

UpSideDownCarl said:
Any good blade maker would know how to add weight to the handle to make any blade handle heavy if he/she wanted to.

There is a reason Gozo does not feel the 10mm One Ply Hinoki blade he is using is notably handle heavy.

Yeah you are right. I never notice about the handle being heavy. I just did an empirical checking and try to balance my blade to find its equilibrium point and it happen to be somewhere in the middle of the blade face, This means that the handle is also heavy to counter balance it. With this I am more convince that the blade maker really knows his trade. No wonder I never felt it to be head heavy despite it is 218g.

Gozo Aruna · Apr 7, 2022

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Unfinished version as offered by my vendor. I told him to make it 10.5mm thick. My vendor will begin production this week and they will ship the product to me from their Taiwan factory by end of the month.

Below are images of a finished goods that they commissioned for another customer earlier. ( 9.5mm thick the one shown below )