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  1. jammmail is offline
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    #61
    Ive been playing a few sessions with my wood blade and I've really enjoyed it. The session last night was mainly drills and I really enjoyed it and felt noticeably more controlled and consistent than previously. Gameplay was a different story but thats more about me taking form from practice into match scenerios.

    Korbel ST Euro
    FH – H3 Neo 2.15 with 2 layers of TFL
    BH – Roundell 2.1

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  2. matt243385 is offline
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    #62
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin
    Hey everyone, I’m in that phase where I’m switching back to all wood from carbon

    I just noticed that I can’t spin as much, nor am I super consistent with carbon. The safety and surety that all wood has is something I’ve neglected.

    While the feeling of immense power is good, I have to face facts- that I do not have the quality to play with carbon yet.


    How has everyone’s experience been going so far? Successful? Or switched to slower carbon settup?

    I’ve been reluctant to switch because I love the vibrations of my Fang Bo B2X over my Ma Lin EO, any of you guys feel this way?

    *I’m also considering to buy infinity vps, because I like the vibrations more.

    swtiched from viscaria to stiga clipper wood legend handle to try it.. Too slow on backhand.
    Also have tried the infinity vps u mentioned.
    Good blade and very easy to play with. Youll like it if you feel you are not good enough for a carbon blade yet. Its also very light.


  3. ricospin is offline
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    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Way Zooted

    Have you considered- Yasaka Sweden Extra, Yinhe W6 or Nittaku Acoustic? All work well with tacky Chinese rubbers.

    I've been using Nittaku acoustic for years and swore I would never try anything that's not all wood ever again but Nittaku acoustic inner would probably be my choice if I did.

    I have tried Sweden extra. It feels good but lacks power. I’m trying to find the perfect compromise in between shots getting on the table but still packing sufficient killing force. I think yeo’s feeling is too hard, but I can certainly play with it and it has plenty of kill shot potential.

    i was considering maybe Fang Bo all wood, or infinity vps.

    Last edited by ricospin; 04-27-2022 at 06:33 PM.

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    #64
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin

    I don’t like the how the blade feels. Something about how it vibrates…

    i like Chinese on forehand, although I might explore other options. Any recommendations?

    i would also like for this thread about rubbers to be talked in private messages as it drastically changes the conversation.

    I also didn’t like YEO because of vibration

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  5. tomahawk11 is offline
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    #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin

    I have tried Sweden extra. It feels good but lacks power. I’m trying to find the perfect compromise in between shots getting on the table but still packing sufficient killing force. I think yeo’s feeling is too hard, but I can certainly play with it and it has plenty of kill shot potential. i was considering maybe Fang Bo all wood, or infinity vps.

    I play with a 5-ply allround wood which is similar to yasaka sweden extra, and have been extremely happy with the slower blade. I would consider 2 things if you are serious about developing as a player, and looking for long term improvement
    1. Is it wise to add more speed artificially through carbon equipment?
    2. What benefit does faster equipment give when thinking about your development?

    For the first point:
    Playing with my allround blade, I have been able to work on my feeling and stroke mechanics, which has increased my power a lot. My loops with my "slow" blade are more powerful that peers who play with carbon, and even has 300 rating more than me. Faster equipment will make you think your stroke is powerful enough, not realizing how much more power you can get through proper body mechanics.

    For the second point:
    Why do you need to have a killshot? Playing slower gives you a great opportunity to work on fundamentals of the game. Slower equipment gives you longer rallies, more repetitions in your strokes, and more time for you to move to the ball. This is a great opportunity to work on your footwork, and develop the wholeness of your game. If you are unable to win through sheer force alone, you will have to develop your strategic senses. Working on placement of ball, variation in spin etc.

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    Last edited by tomahawk11; 04-28-2022 at 02:02 PM.

  6. matt243385 is offline
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    #66
    Quote Originally Posted by tomahawk11
    I play with a 5-ply allround wood which is similar to yasaka sweden extra, and have been extremely happy with the slower blade. I would consider 2 things if you are serious about developing as a player, and looking for long term improvement
    1. Is it wise to add more speed artificially through carbon equipment?
    2. What benefit does faster equipment give when thinking about your development?

    For the first point:
    Playing with my allround blade, I have been able to work on my feeling and stroke mechanics, which has increased my power a lot. My loops with my "slow" blade are more powerful that peers who play with carbon, and even has 300 rating more than me. Faster equipment will make you think your stroke is powerful enough, not realizing how much more power you can get through proper body mechanics.

    For the second point:
    Why do you need to have a killshot? Playing slower gives you a great opportunity to work on fundamentals of the game. Slower equipment gives you longer rallies, more repetitions in your strokes, and more time for you to move to the ball. This is a great opportunity to work on your footwork, and develop the wholeness of your game. If you are unable to win through sheer force alone, you will have to develop your strategic senses. Working on placement of ball, variation in spin etc.

    Agree!! 1000 rating is way too early for a fast blade


  7. lodro is offline
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    #67
    Quote Originally Posted by erm
    I also have been going back and forth from Composite blades to all wood blades...I used to prefer 5 play blades which most are too slow for todays game, but there are about 3 of them i could still use and be fine with, otherwise i prefer now 7ply wood especially when using tuned sticky rubber on the forehand.

    Ahh, it took all the way to #57 that someone using the magic word "Composite blade" instead of everybody only talking "carbon"
    A straight carbon blade is something I never liked but once carbon got mixed with other fibers and especially in a "inner" laminate,
    this for me was """THE END""" of the wood blades.


  8. ricospin is offline
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    #68
    For the second point:
    Why do you need to have a killshot? Playing slower gives you a great opportunity to work on fundamentals of the game. Slower equipment gives you longer rallies, more repetitions in your strokes, and more time for you to move to the ball. This is a great opportunity to work on your footwork, and develop the wholeness of your game. If you are unable to win through sheer force alone, you will have to develop your strategic senses. Working on placement of ball, variation in spin etc.
    The switch to all wood has allowed to place the ball better. To me, my playstyle revolves around 3rd ball and 5th ball.

    In this aspect, I suppose slower would make me a weaker player in terms of playstyle; since there would be rallies, that aspect of the game would improve

  9. ricospin is offline
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    #69
    Quote Originally Posted by piligrim

    I also didn’t like YEO because of vibration

    I’ve been switching around rubbers before I buy a new blade.


    an old sheet of boosted H8 was so and so. I’d like to try a new sheet to see if I like the feeling and how it plays

    Boosted 40 deg OS H3 feels okay. It’s not like something that I’ll be crazy about but, it feels alright. I reckon the skyline tg2 Neo would have good synergy with the blade because that’s the rubber ML used to use, albeit boosted national version.


  10. Way Zooted is offline
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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin

    I’ve been switching around rubbers before I buy a new blade.


    an old sheet of boosted H8 was so and so. I’d like to try a new sheet to see if I like the feeling and how it plays

    Boosted 40 deg OS H3 feels okay. It’s not like something that I’ll be crazy about but, it feels alright. I reckon the skyline tg2 Neo would have good synergy with the blade because that’s the rubber ML used to use, albeit boosted national version.

    Yasaka Sweden Extra or Yinhe's copy the W6, with hard rubbers is more than fast enough if you are physically capable and have the technique...The speed and spin you can create with Chinese forehand rubbers on that type of blade is insane. The catch is you have to be dedicated to that full body stroke.

    I tried someones YEO today and also played against it. That top ply is pretty hard and felt kinda dead-ish. His spin was much less than when he uses his normal Sanwei Fextra with the same Euro rubbers. Seems like the YEO would do better with a hard Chinese forehand rubber but would probably make it very unforgiving.


  11. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #71
    Welp..I would add Tibhar Curious to that list of fancy all wood blades. Totally underrated, dirt cheap.
    /devnull

  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #72
    I have not read much of the thread. But I am going to answer the original question and perhaps my experience is different than other people's....or, maybe not.

    About 6 years ago I was using a TB composite blade and I was hitting with a friend. We swapped so I could feel his setup and it was all wood and the blade felt sooooooo good and I remembered what I liked about the feeling of a good all wood blade. I switched to a 5 ply all wood blade and I have not looked back. I tried several when I switched. I have a few I could use. But I really like the one I chose. It was an OSP Virtuoso Plus. I tried the V-, I tried the V'King (koto outer) and a bunch of other blades. But I really liked the Virtuoso Plus. Recently Nate made me a blade that is very similar to the V+ and I use those two interchangeably now.

    I have not looked back for one moment. I like what I am using.

    Table Tennis is a game/sport of precision and technique. Your timing, how you touch the ball, the speed of the racket on contact, these things are the things that matter the most. I played baseball as a kid. I feel like I can hit the ball damned hard when I want to. The equipment does not slow me down. And when you are really using the rubber with tangential contact, the blade does not factor that much in the speed. So, I am not really sure my shots are much slower than if I used a carbon blade. And I did not switch the wood because I could not handle the composite blade. I just like the feeling of the wood better. But, for sure, I get more spin with the all wood blade.

    Technique and power: I have one friend who was a pro tennis player who also plays TT and one time I was training with him and another friend of mine was watching and said, "hey, he has more power than you!" I said that should not be a surprise. This guy was a pro tennis player and he was also a pretty solid TT player.

    I have another friend who was a pro tennis player who was also a darn good TT player.....this guy is notably higher level than the other guy....and he used to use a Stiga Allround Classic because it was really slow. Even with this slow blade, this guy hit the ball with so much power that he did not want a faster blade because it would be too much despite the fact that he had really darn good technique. This guy was about 2400 level. But with that slow blade, he still hit harder than most 2500-2700 level TT players in the US.

    What is the point: a table tennis ball is actually REALLY REALLY light and most people who are lower than 2000 level (USTTA rating - which is most of the forum) are limiting their ability to learn how to really fine tune their technique and generate more power by using equipment that is fast enough so that they actually need to cut down their swing to control the ball.

    If your technique is good, you can take a stroke that is very compact, 3-6 inches long (7.6cm-15.2cm) and still have the racket speed, impact depth and touch/feel on contact to make the ball rocket towards your opponent with speed and spin (power).

    The equipment does not do that. Your technique does. Now, it is fair that everyone can choose what they want to use. But it is common that players don't really know how to judge what will be good for them.

    I applaud the idea of a player switching to an all wood setup to see if they can really focus on improving their technique.

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    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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  13. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin

    I don’t like the how the blade feels. Something about how it vibrates…

    i like Chinese on forehand, although I might explore other options. Any recommendations?

    i would also like for this thread about rubbers to be talked in private messages as it drastically changes the conversation.

    I absolutely hated Yasaka Extra Offensive blades. Trust what you like.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel
    I think the use of slower blades to coach beginners is a bit overrated with one exception- adult learners who do not have good feeling. I know many juniors who just used fast blades with Chinese rubber or fast blades period. I would go the fast blade with slower rubber for the 40+ ball.

    I think also that the focus on blade speed is sometimes confused with the focus on blade feeling. For me the biggest issue with composite blades was never the speed, it was always that the blades were developed to dampen vibrations that I got used to while training with wood blades. So I couldn't tell what a good shot felt like with a composite but could do it easily with a wooden blade.

    I partly learned this whenever I played with a Mazunov. A Mazunov is a faster blade than a Boll ALC but using it you would never know because it is truly a looping blade for the new 40+ ball. Despite being head heavy you feel the dwell better. I could never enjoy the vibrations of a Boll ALC or a typical 7 ply. But a 5 ply like the Mazunov always felt good to me.

    Many other more detailed thoughts on the issue but I will leave this here for now.

    There is a lot more in this post than meets the eye. It is a post that would be worth reading a few times to understand it more fully.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  15. lodro is offline
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    #75
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

    There is a lot more in this post than meets the eye. It is a post that would be worth reading a few times to understand it more fully.

    agreed !

    just an "add-on" : old gits like myself have often lost the capability to perform the tremendous contortion acts needed for
    a proper FH -shot. With reaction times being slower, eyesight being jeopardized , joints creaking with every move and every muscle aching
    we need the little extra power that one gets from a composite blade.
    Of course even a composite blade still is about 85% wood 😁


  16. ricospin is offline
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    #76
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    agreed !

    just an "add-on" : old gits like myself have often lost the capability to perform the tremendous contortion acts needed for
    a proper FH -shot. With reaction times being slower, eyesight being jeopardized , joints creaking with every move and every muscle aching
    we need the little extra power that one gets from a composite blade.
    Of course even a composite blade still is about 85% wood 😁

    For sure. I know many old people who use SZLC made it's their way of making up for the loss in physical ability, but also to flex their cash 😂.

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  17. Wrighty67 is offline
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    #77
    This is a really interesting thread and one that is close to my heart. I am right now torn between two blades - one is a Nittaku Acoustic all wood and the other an inner ALC DHS HL5x. I have them both with identical rubbers and truth be told I like them both equally and so struggle to settle with one.

    The Acoustic (large handle) feels more comfortable in my hand and has great balance, whereas the HL5 has a slightly more head heavy feel to it.

    In terms of speed - the base speed is similar but the HL5x has more gears - it's slower in close (which I like a lot) and it's faster when you hit very hard.

    In terms of feel - they both feel great, with the Acoustic maybe slightly more alive and the HL5 slightly more muted.

    I feel like I "should" stick with the Acoustic for all the reasons in this thread, but in actuality I tend towards better results with the HL5 and so play it more - there is not a great deal of difference (like there might be with a faster outer type carbon blade)

    I suppose what I am saying, is that for an intermediate player like me, it's just not that clear cut and the evaluation is very hard to make...

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  18. jammmail is offline
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    #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrighty67
    This is a really interesting thread and one that is close to my heart. I am right now torn between two blades - one is a Nittaku Acoustic all wood and the other an inner ALC DHS HL5x. I have them both with identical rubbers and truth be told I like them both equally and so struggle to settle with one.

    The Acoustic (large handle) feels more comfortable in my hand and has great balance, whereas the HL5 has a slightly more head heavy feel to it.

    In terms of speed - the base speed is similar but the HL5x has more gears - it's slower in close (which I like a lot) and it's faster when you hit very hard.

    In terms of feel - they both feel great, with the Acoustic maybe slightly more alive and the HL5 slightly more muted.

    I feel like I "should" stick with the Acoustic for all the reasons in this thread, but in actuality I tend towards better results with the HL5 and so play it more - there is not a great deal of difference (like there might be with a faster outer type carbon blade)

    I suppose what I am saying, is that for an intermediate player like me, it's just not that clear cut and the evaluation is very hard to make...

    My feeling is very similar Wrighty but i think I'm going to stick with the Korbel - for the time being. Wait till after a tournament and see how the summer league goes then reassess. What I will say though and how I'm judging it is not if its making my best strokes even better but are my worst strokes getting better?
    With my TBS my FHs are faster and more powerful but my BH can be inconsistent and make me passive. But with the wood blade my BH is better, more consistent and I have more confidence in being attacking with it – so for me that makes my overall game better even if I lose some penetration on the FH.
    I think I would lose to some people I have beaten before without the added pace of the ALC but there would be other people that I imagine I would struggle against previously but with more consistency I would beat now - I guess results alone are always the best way to judge.

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    #79
    Quote Originally Posted by jammmail

    My feeling is very similar Wrighty but i think I'm going to stick with the Korbel - for the time being. Wait till after a tournament and see how the summer league goes then reassess. What I will say though and how I'm judging it is not if its making my best strokes even better but are my worst strokes getting better?
    With my TBS my FHs are faster and more powerful but my BH can be inconsistent and make me passive. But with the wood blade my BH is better, more consistent and I have more confidence in being attacking with it – so for me that makes my overall game better even if I lose some penetration on the FH.
    I think I would lose to some people I have beaten before without the added pace of the ALC but there would be other people that I imagine I would struggle against previously but with more consistency I would beat now - I guess results alone are always the best way to judge.

    Makes total sense - I think the same might apply to me with the exception of my short game being better with the ALC blade as it is softer in close.

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  20. ricospin is offline
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    #80
    Infinity Vps might be the move lol. Or maybe Fang Bo all wood.

    maybe a slower carbon?


    ideally I’d want less switching on equipment and just find something that feels right.

    I could just learn to love the yeo. But it feels mediocre, nothing to write home about.

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