Carbon vs ALC/ZLC difference?

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What is the difference in playing characteristics between straight Carbon blade vs ALC/ZLC?

I have a Sanwei CC (straight inner carbon) and Fang Bo Carbon (inner ALC), but I can't really tell the big difference between Carbon and ALC.

What is the theoretical difference between pure carbon vs ALC vs ZLC?
 
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There are also rackets with "soft carbon", "3k carbon", "LD carbon", etc. So at the end of the day the mechanical properties of the carbon layer and the glue to the wood layers (and the wood layers themselves) determine the characteristics of the blade. E.g. I have the Yinhe T6s, T7s, T8s, T11 which have carbon (T6s) and arylate carbon (a weave of carbon and kevlar, T7s and T8s), and different wood stacks but always cypress top layer (similar to Hinoki) and external carbon (i.e. carbon under cypress with no intermediate wood layer). The playing characteristics are very different, with the T6s being "harder" and the T7s slower and softer, and the T8s fast but soft relatively speaking. The T8s feels similar to the DHS Fang Bo B2X which has "2 AC , Pith-Film Carbon" whatever that means (also a weave of two strands). It seems to be pretty popular from how many Princett.com has in stock.
I also have the Yinhe 970xxA (Koto + internal ALC) and Pro 01 (Koto + external ALC) and they behave predictably with the Pro 01 being more crispy and the 970xxA being similar to the B2X but a little slower and less dwell (the Koto vs Limba effect).
So at the end of the day I don't think you can generalize ALC vs. ZLC carbon, it depends on not just the carbon material but also many other factors. This is why Sanwei or Yinhe have many combinations of wood and carbon available and I guess they see what sticks. I just bought the Sanwei King Kong 2 for $27 at AliExpress (admittedly, for the cool name) which has LD carbon under Limba and Spruce and is faster than the B2X. Great quality blade but maybe too fast at 1485Hz vs B2X 1442Hz.
Also for the B2X I had to post-process it with varnish & various sand papers to get the sharp edges from the ALC layer taken care of. The Sanwei and Yinhe blades had better quality but I still varnish and sand them.
 
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So at the end of the day I don't think you can generalize ALC vs. ZLC carbon, it depends on not just the carbon material but also many other factors.

That's not exactly true, every fiber has its own intrinsic properties like density, thickness, stiffness, hardness, feel, that will stand out if everything else is equal. What is wrong is to compare blades with different compositions, and attribute those differences to the top ply alone, or fiber or whatever, like I see a lot of people doing.

 
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That's not exactly true, every fiber has its own intrinsic properties like density, thickness, stiffness, hardness, feel, that will stand out if everything else is equal. What is wrong is to compare blades with different compositions, and attribute those differences to the top ply alone, or fiber or whatever, like I see a lot of people doing.

Right, assuming wood composition and thickness and everything else equal, what would the properties of Carbon vs ALC/ZLC be?

 
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In my imagination, Carbon is the classic composite fibre, providing the most increase in speed.

ALC still provides some of the carbon properties, but less speedy. Instead gives more dwell time because of the arylate.

ZLC falls between carbon and ALC. Provides more speed than ALC, but less than Carbon. Provides more dwell time than carbon, but less than ALC.

Is this somewhat accurate?

 
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I don't know if it matters exactly what carbon.

Butterfly used to use T5000 carbon to produce some of the fastest blades at the time. Then it moved onto ALC/ZLC and now Butterfly is promoting super ZLC. Then CNF and ZLF came out.

It is all very confusing.

At the end of the day, you just have to pick up blade and see for yourself if the blade works for you.

The carbon probably matters. But what else matters is the composition of the woods. The position of the carbon layer (inner or outer). The thickness of the blade.

And at the end either you like it or you don't. Nothing substitutes you actually buying a blade and see how you like it play.

All blade makers will also tell you that each patch of wood they use is different. That's why if you order multiple blades at the same time from a blade maker, he can probably guarantee that all three blades you will get feel about the same. But even if the blade maker keeps a detailed record of the composition of your blade, if you want the exact blade with the exact composition six months later, you will get a slightly different blade because the patch of the wood would be different or the grain would be different.

Another example. I am EJ'ing between the different Gambler carbon blades. Apparently they use 60K carbon which is also known as IM8 graphite in the fishing industry. Ok, have I heard of IM8 graphite? No. Do I know anything about the fishing industry? No. Do I like the blades? Yes I like them enough that I am EJ'ing among the different blades. I have a Nittaku Acoustic carbon and a Butterfly Viscaria just sitting in my collection, not used.

Among Gambler's carbon blades, I find Blackout to be the best. Fast but yet soft with control. Fire Dragon Fast and Fire Dragon Hinoki are too fast for me. Fire Dragon Touch is slightly faster than Blackout (despite it being inner carbon) but yet the control is not as good as Blackout. AC Hero is too slow of a carbon blade. Vector Hinoki is also too fast for me. Yet Vector Speed is very very similar to Blackout so I own six Blackout's and two Vector Speed's as I put various rubbers on the BH side to EJ properly. Do I agree with their speed table on the site? Not really. Did I look down on $40 Gambler blades before? Yes. Do I like their products now? Yes very much so! However please avoid their rubbers......They are not good.
 
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In my imagination, Carbon is the classic composite fibre, providing the most increase in speed.

ALC still provides some of the carbon properties, but less speedy. Instead gives more dwell time because of the arylate.

ZLC falls between carbon and ALC. Provides more speed than ALC, but less than Carbon. Provides more dwell time than carbon, but less than ALC.

Is this somewhat accurate?

exactly, and all carbon/alc/zlc makes the sweetspot of blades larger than all wood blades
 
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