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  1. loerting is offline
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    #1

    How to break the habit of a too long backswing?

    I think my forehand stroke is too long and that I rotate my upper body too much on the backswing (my blade can be seen on the opposite side). I also open the angle between upper arm and forearm too much (backswing). Especially on counter topspin I can see the problem

    Check out this match of me playing (I'm blue guy): 1:38,
    What are your thoughts on this, do you notice any other technical problems? Are there any tricks that can help me get the correct execution in my subconsciousness, or do I just have to train it very often?

    Moved to Video Safe Thread: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...515#post367515
    Last edited by loerting; 04-23-2022 at 02:20 PM.

  2. Zwill is online now
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    #2
    Watch this video. You might not understand much but you can check the technique. Technique has no language barrier thankfully. He also shows some bad examples, like yours.

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    #3
    Hi,

    it would be better to post this on the ‘safe video’ thread. It’s kinda reserved for asking advice and getting some opinions from some TTD members that are better positioned to do so.This way you’ll get consistent advice.
    Otherwise anyone can chip in regardless of their ability and experience.

  4. loerting is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by IB66
    Hi,

    it would be better to post this on the ‘safe video’ thread. It’s kinda reserved for asking advice and getting some opinions from some TTD members that are better positioned to do so.This way you’ll get consistent advice.
    Otherwise anyone can chip in regardless of their ability and experience.

    Good idea. Thanks


  5. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #5
    The other thread is locked to select few experts so I will give you my feedback here, maybe it will be useful, maybe not.

    I saw 2 things that seem to cause your fh shots to miss:
    • You are stretching your arm of the the table i.e. you are too far back
    • You are missing the timing.

    I think this might be cause by the fact you are almost parallel to the table. You can standing closer to the table with your left foot and maybe a tiny bit further with your right.This will cause you body to naturally rotate your body towards fh side of the table and will give you bigger space to properly hit your ball.

    That being said this will probably give you easier FH but will require position shift for BH shot.

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  6. yoass is offline
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    #6
    My humble €.02 is: I think I see a pattern of you moving backwards at impact time at precisely those moments where things go wrong, and I think there's a relation beyond correlation there.I tell my pupils to always visualize going through the ball, and upon occasion that has helped them maintain their forward momentum.
    Last edited by yoass; 04-25-2022 at 10:18 AM.

  7. Takkyu_wa_inochi is offline
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    #7
    For info, the video posted by Zwill features Kazuhiro CHAN, a Japanese player from Chinese origin. He once lost in the national champs final to Mizutani, and had a small apparition in the National Team.

    @loerting
    1) i think you should focus on the timing by forcing you to focus on the bounce on your half table.
    don't swing before the ball bounces.

    this has a few merits:
    - by waiting for that precise moment, your timing will be more similar for all your shots.
    - when you wait more, by necessity your swing will become faster, and to make it possible and efficient, the swing will shorten.
    - you are taking a good habit of looking at the ball, you will see it better, and will become able to read its trajectory and spin better

    2) focus on getting back in position for the next shot:
    do a lot of footwork exercise at a good rhythm. if your swing is too big, you won't be able to recover for the next ball. By making these drills and focusing on a fast recovery, naturally you will adapt by shortening your strokes.


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    #8
    I've posted this in a different thread, but it looks like the perfect thing to help you fix your backswing problem, which is basically saying your upper arm moves too far back. This training aid limits the movement of your upper arm, and helps you form new muscle memory.



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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    I've posted this in a different thread, but it looks like the perfect thing to help you fix your backswing problem, which is basically saying your upper arm moves too far back. This training aid limits the movement of your upper arm, and helps you form new muscle memory.

    Coincidentally this device just came up on the video footage thread as a really useful tool - I have spent the last few days trying to find something with no luck. Where can I get one of these Duke?


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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrighty67

    Coincidentally this device just came up on the video footage thread as a really useful tool - I have spent the last few days trying to find something with no luck. Where can I get one of these Duke?

    I bought one for myself and one for my girlfriend on taobao.com, here's the link to the product (it'll probably ask you to register) https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=606717725155

    I then used https://superbuy.com to ship it to the states. You could just use this website to buy it directly too, just paste the link above in the search bar and it'll give you the options and translate it into English. Also if you need a lefty version you'll need to mention that to the seller.

    I bought this since I'm teaching my girlfriend how to play, and thought might get one for myself to check my own form, and I also want to see if it works before I let others try. I can confirm it helps a lot to solidify a proper form, after only a week my gf can now do an awesome looking forehand drive and loop, but it could also be my awesome teaching skills lol

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 04-25-2022 at 07:38 PM.

  11. Gozo is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by loerting
    I think my forehand stroke is too long and that I rotate my upper body too much on the backswing (my blade can be seen on the opposite side). I also open the angle between upper arm and forearm too much (backswing). Especially on counter topspin I can see the problem

    Check out this match of me playing (I'm blue guy): 1:38,
    What are your thoughts on this, do you notice any other technical problems? Are there any tricks that can help me get the correct execution in my subconsciousness, or do I just have to train it very often?

    Moved to Video Safe Thread: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/for...515#post367515
    You did play quite well actually.

    I am not sure why do you keep giving him long serve? Your opponent is a looper and he is enjoying looping your serve and return so much.

    On your request as to how to shorten your strokes. What I did was, I bought a resistance band and tied it on my playing arm and restrict elbow close to my body. This way, I am forced to swing my waist only to generate the torque necessary to drive the ball. I cannot swing my hand anymore. Due to this restriction, I am also forced to move my legs to hit the ball and cannot be lazy to extend or swing my arm wildly to force a return. Over time, this builds muscle memory and I shorten my strokes, use my waist torgue to generate the hitting power and move my legs more.

    Hope this help.

  12. Wrighty67 is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    I bought one for myself and one for my girlfriend on taobao.com, here's the link to the product (it'll probably ask you to register) https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=606717725155

    I then used https://superbuy.com to ship it to the states. You could just use this website to buy it directly too, just paste the link above in the search bar and it'll give you the options and translate it into English. Also if you need a lefty version you'll need to mention that to the seller.

    I bought this since I'm teaching my girlfriend how to play, and thought might get one for myself to check my own form, and I also want to see if it works before I let others try. I can confirm it helps a lot to solidify a proper form, after only a week my gf can now do an awesome looking forehand drive and loop, but it could also be my awesome teaching skills lol

    Brilliant - thanks. I think I’ve managed to get one ordered on superbuy - I’ve certainly paid!

    cheers.


  13. Der_Echte is offline
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    #13
    Another way is to use your step to the FH to open the hips and thus eliminate the need for a huge torquing windup. How does this work? You are in middle of table or BH corner and now you have a ball going to the FH corner or past it... you step to the ball with your hitting foot (Right foot for RH players) and step/plant with the foot pointing to side of the table... with your arm, you are only extending it to the side some and a little down depending on the ball... now when you plant, you are well positioned with open hips that will add leverage and power/spin to your FH.

    All that happens with a simple step and sticking out your arm a little in place of all that windup. The result is much more direct path to impact and much stronger/consistent impact.

    Actually, for that ball to the FH or wide FH, you are fighting against your body if you try to rotate waist/shoulders and you would have less power and many more errors.

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  14. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    Another way is to use your step to the FH to open the hips and thus eliminate the need for a huge torquing windup. How does this work? You are in middle of table or BH corner and now you have a ball going to the FH corner or past it... you step to the ball with your hitting foot (Right foot for RH players) and step/plant with the foot pointing to side of the table... with your arm, you are only extending it to the side some and a little down depending on the ball... now when you plant, you are well positioned with open hips that will add leverage and power/spin to your FH.

    All that happens with a simple step and sticking out your arm a little in place of all that windup. The result is much more direct path to impact and much stronger/consistent impact.

    Actually, for that ball to the FH or wide FH, you are fighting against your body if you try to rotate waist/shoulders and you would have less power and many more errors.

    Is this in line with what I wrote couple of posts above? I have hard times visualizing what you are saying.

    /devnull

  15. Der_Echte is offline
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    #15
    Try it out yourself. Take one step to your right (if RH) right along the same line as end line. Just stick out bat to your side a foot or tow as you step. Once you plant your foot (foot facing almost sideways 30 degrees forward or so) stop and take a look at your hips. They are big time open and it is SO DAMN EASY to start a stroke from this position and hit for power.
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    #16
    One of the things that Ma Long does to force his rotation is to punch towards where he wants to hit the ball with his left hand so he gets the rotation he needs to support a long atm backswing. Maybe you can try this
    Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

    "We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

  17. Der_Echte is offline
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    #17
    Very frequently, you will hear Kim Jung Hoon explain this concept in his vids when discussing how to generate power with the body. Even on BH shots he advocates using the free hand to leverage power during the stroke. He advocates pulling in the free hand as a way to get more shoulder turn and change the course of the shot from down the line to BH corner and get an extra 10% power.
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by loerting
    I think my forehand stroke is too long and that I rotate my upper body too much on the backswing (my blade can be seen on the opposite side). I also open the angle between upper arm and forearm too much (backswing). Especially on counter topspin I can see the problem
    I don't think your FH backswing is too long. Others mentioned the points which are worth improving already. Your post is about FH, so here are my 2 cents about FH, which I try and I think you could try.

    When continuously looping, *immediately* when the forward movement is finished, and the backward movement starts, I try to move the elbow down and then back close to the body (and then rotate and the arm further back - all that as a 1 backswing movement). This "elbow down and to body" saves some precious miliseconds. Also the backward rotation is easier, faster and feels better.

    Finally, when you loop against backswing, e.g. long push comes to BH, you need to make space (step left) go down and rotate to the right - if during this phase I do this with elbow close to the body, it seems it somehow magically influences the forward motion too. The forward motion then feels more "through" the ball, as opposed to the "around" the ball. This 2nd point is personal, but I have it that way. Btw. this is also what I associate with the words "accelerate through the ball", which occasionally causes some confusion in other threads :-)

    I am a regional level player. Not national level, slightly above district level :-)

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  19. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    Sep 2013
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    #19
    I think your footwork is a bit slow and not enough body weight transfers from right to left foot.
    Your right foot can step closer towards the contact point (FH topspin)
    I don't really see an issue with your backswing/movement, you seem tall.

    You stepping back/away from the table because you are tall is also fine, but that just means you need to move better, otherwise you will always be a bit slow and not ready for the stoke and cause unforce errors.

    playing a match is difficult to look good, there isn't too many fh shots for me to see too (I didn't watch the full video, just jumped through).
    If you want to improve, then get a multiball feeder, and practice 2 or 3 point fh shots, and practice the movement.

    I think your movement is just not smooth enough, and you think it could be your backswing. I just think it is your footwork.

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  20. Der_Echte is offline
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    #20
    Tttttooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyyyyy !!!!!!!

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