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  1. Gozo is offline
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    #1

    Grip vs Spin: is there a difference?

    Greeting Komrad in TT,

    Recently I browsed the Yasaka webpage and I came to this term: Grip vs Spin.

    In the website: Raksa7 is listed as Spin focused whereas Rakza X is Grip focused.

    Can anyone tell me what does it mean? To me Grip create Spin and hence synonymous. Am I missing something here? or is this plainly a marketing ploy?
    Last edited by Gozo; 04-29-2022 at 04:33 AM.

  2. lodro is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Greeting Komrad in TT,

    Recently I browsed the Yasaka webpage and I came to this term: Grip vs Spin.

    In the website: Raksa7 is listed as Spin focused whereas Rakza X is Grip focused.

    Can anyone tell me what does it mean? To me Grip create Spin and hence synonymous. Am I missing something here? or is this plainly a marketing ploy?

    yep, sounds like a lot of bollocks to me too.
    A translation mistake maybe ???

    I think apart from technique 2 things may help give spin, either sticky rubber or softer rubber


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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Greeting Komrad in TT,

    Recently I browsed the Yasaka webpage and I came to this term: Grip vs Spin.

    In the website: Raksa7 is listed as Spin focused whereas Rakza X is Grip focused.

    Can anyone tell me what does it mean? To me Grip create Spin and hence synonymous. Am I missing something here? or is this plainly a marketing ploy?

    Hi. I don't know the difference between grip and rotation, but rakza 7 has a fantastic spin. Have a nice day


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    #4
    The Yasaka claim is bogus and trying to take advantage of people that don't know any better.
    As an engineer I would as what are the units? Spin is easy, It is RPM, revs/second or even radians per second.
    What are the units for grip?

  5. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    The Yasaka claim is bogus and trying to take advantage of people that don't know any better.
    As an engineer I would as what are the units? Spin is easy, It is RPM, revs/second or even radians per second.
    What are the units for grip?
    Maybe Newtons (N) of the friction measured using the same material and same pressure on the rubber. Maybe they dragged a TT ball at the same pressure across the surface of two rubbers and concluded that one was “grippier” than the other.

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    Modestly, Leo

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    #7
    Obviously Yasaka is comparing apples and oranges.
    If Yasaka meant friction, then why didn't they say so?
    So how does the friction on one rubber differ from the other?

    BTW, the coefficient of friction changes but it is unitless. There is static friction and dynamic friction. They can be quite different.
    Pulling a ball across a rubber would measure the dynamic friction but hopefully the TT balls don't slide across the rubber unless playing with "frictionless" anti or push blocking LP 0X.

    And yes, I know about friction. I once consulted/measured the friction on the North Emsworth Dam just downstream from Pittsburg PA. The dam gates would chatter when moving due to what laymen call stick-slip but the proper name is Stribeck friction. I had to prove to the Army Core of Engineers the seals on their hydraulic cylinders were too tight and causing the problem. We had to use position, pressure and accelerometers to measure what was happening.


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  8. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Obviously Yasaka is comparing apples and oranges.
    If Yasaka meant friction, then why didn't they say so?
    So how does the friction on one rubber differ from the other?

    BTW, the coefficient of friction changes but it is unitless. There is static friction and dynamic friction. They can be quite different.
    Pulling a ball across a rubber would measure the dynamic friction but hopefully the TT balls don't slide across the rubber unless playing with "frictionless" anti or push blocking LP 0X.

    And yes, I know about friction. I once consulted/measured the friction on the North Emsworth Dam just downstream from Pittsburg PA. The dam gates would chatter when moving due to what laymen call stick-slip but the proper name is Stribeck friction. I had to prove to the Army Core of Engineers the seals on their hydraulic cylinders were too tight and causing the problem. We had to use position, pressure and accelerometers to measure what was happening.
    Yeah, still just marketing. But what about rolling friction?
    Modestly, Leo

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Yeah, still just marketing. But what about rolling friction?
    What about rolling friction?
    With or without sliding?
    Rolling implies that the balls are moving across the face of the paddle.
    I have high speed video taken at 2000 FPS. I have posted them here a long time ago. TT balls don't roll during contact but they do rotate which is the whole idea of making spin.

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    #10
    Rakza 7 and X came out years apart.
    maybe different person referring to the same thing with different words? i'm just guessing here lol.

    Fact is, there is no TT dictionary and many people do use different words, and in some countries, they don't really mean the same.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Rakza 7 and X came out years apart.
    maybe different person referring to the same thing with different words? i'm just guessing here lol.

    Fact is, there is no TT dictionary and many people do use different words, and in some countries, they don't really mean the same.

    Fact is, there is no TT dictionary and many people do use different words, and in some countries, they don't really mean the same.

    So true.
    Also every manufacturer features its own number-parameters to express speed -spin-control etc. It is an old trick
    used by manufacturers to make it impossible for the potential customer to compare apples with apples.

    Once elected ,as the emperor of the multiverse i will indeed prohibit this kind of goings on, right after
    prohibiting chocolate 😁


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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    Once elected ,as the emperor of the multiverse i will indeed prohibit this kind of goings on, right after
    prohibiting chocolate 😁

    Do you want all the chocolate for yourself or you don't like chocolate?

  13. lodro is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dajdosta
    Do you want all the chocolate for yourself or you don't like chocolate?

    please do not tell anybody else but yes, I want it all for myself


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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    please do not tell anybody else but yes, I want it all for myself

    That is understandable. Stealing all the chocolate for yourself. I can sympathize with that.
    I was afraid that someone doesn't like chocolate?!? That would be wrong!

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    What about rolling friction?
    With or without sliding?
    Rolling implies that the balls are moving across the face of the paddle.
    I have high speed video taken at 2000 FPS. I have posted them here a long time ago. TT balls don't roll during contact but they do rotate which is the whole idea of making spin.
    So it is wether the balls slip or catch on the rubber that determines how grippy it is.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    So it is wether the balls slip or catch on the rubber that determines how grippy it is.

    yes, that is how i see it, the more it catches the grippier it will be.
    But also if a rubber is soft, a ball has moor opportunity to sink into the rubber and more
    surface is touched, so this should also add to the grippiness.


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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    So it is wether the balls slip or catch on the rubber that determines how grippy it is.
    So there is nothing in between "catching" or "slipping"?

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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    yes, that is how i see it, the more it catches the grippier it will be.


    Again, define grippy.

    But also if a rubber is soft, a ball has moor opportunity to sink into the rubber and more
    surface is touched, so this should also add to the grippiness.

    Is soft rubber spinnier or is it just more "grippy"
    So why are the TT manufacturers pushing the latest fad which is hard rubber?

    What about tacky rubbers? Is Rakza 7 a "grippy" as a Chinese tacky rubber?

    You know I am just messing with you guys, but I am trying to get you to think so you know when to call TT advertising BS.

  19. lodro is offline
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Again, define grippy.


    Is soft rubber spinnier or is it just more "grippy"
    So why are the TT manufacturers pushing the latest fad which is hard rubber?

    What about tacky rubbers? Is Rakza 7 a "grippy" as a Chinese tacky rubber?

    You know I am just messing with you guys, but I am trying to get you to think so you know when to call TT advertising BS.

    s soft rubber spinnier or is it just more "grippy"


    i can not be held responsible for making definitions I leave this up to smart people, I just eat some more chocolate.
    in my opinion there is NO SPINNY rubber. I am saying that because with every rubber the actual spin has to be
    created by the player.
    Tacky and grippy to me is the same
    Sticky is when one can lift a ball up and it keeps hanging there for 1 to 15 seconds
    Both tacky AND sticky rubbers and some soft rubbers MAY """"" assist""""" in creating spin

    Remember : don't shoot, i am only a sax player


  20. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #20
    softer rubbers generate way less spin, so definition wise, it can't be grippier if reduces in spin rotation, correct?
    TTT

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