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  1. Zwill is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    Why do you think so. Have you tried it? One of the Polish Superliga and Bundesliga players admitted to use exactly that after visit in the camp in China.

    Reference:

    (I know this channel is often disregarded, but this time it is Adrian Więcek talking not the channel owner)
    What's wrong with them? I don't know their names but the younger tall guy and the defender are good players. Their opinion I would consider. The rest of them I would rather just skip.

  2. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Zwill
    What's wrong with them? I don't know their names but the younger tall guy and the defender are good players. Their opinion I would consider. The rest of them I would rather just skip.

    I don't have much against them. They have a couple of controversial ratings. There is a user or two that absolutely hate them, so that little disclaimer was put so that I don't get the part of the potential flame war. Most of which is around "the owner saying things about tt products while having stiff and suboptimal top spin stroke" and the fact that the very tall and skinny guy that often showed Gewo products said few times not so nice things about the whole channel.

    That being said, I would prefer to stick to the point. Some pros do boost Tenergy 05 Hard and they don't feel like they wasted money.

    Last edited by Kuba Hajto; 05-06-2022 at 02:55 PM.
    /devnull

  3. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    Why do you think so. Have you tried it? One of the Polish Superliga and Bundesliga players admitted to use exactly that after visit in the camp in China.

    Reference:

    (I know this channel is often disregarded, but this time it is Adrian Więcek talking not the channel owner)
    I know that Non Chinese rubbers can be boosted, but I was just making a joke on how Butterfly threatens that their rubbers break after being boosted. Also boosting does decrease the lifespan of any rubber.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Physics professors know more that coaches in theoretical physics. Coaches are way better at teaching TT.
    That is a generalization.
    Also, physic professors are academics that don't get much real world experience.
    There were some on the mytt forum that didn't seem to know anything.
    TT coaches that teach/spread myths are not that helpful.
    What is needed is a combination of the best of both worlds so the TT coaches are not teaching myths.

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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    I don't have much against them. They have a couple of controversial ratings. There is a user or two that absolutely hate them, so that little disclaimer was put so that I don't get the part of the potential flame war. Most of which is around "the owner saying things about tt products while having stiff and suboptimal top spin stroke" and the fact that the very tall and skinny guy that often showed Gewo products said few times not so nice things about the whole channel.

    That being said, I would prefer to stick to the point. Some pros do boost Tenergy 05 Hard and they don't feel like they wasted money.

    Maybe because they change rubbers every 3 weeks anyway. Or they are sponsored. We are not.
    Modestly, Leo

  6. Der_Echte is offline
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Rakza 7 and X came out years apart.
    maybe different person referring to the same thing with different words? i'm just guessing here lol.

    Fact is, there is no TT dictionary and many people do use different words, and in some countries, they don't really mean the same.

    Fully agree.

    One example.. in Korea a Drive is actually a loop, in USA a drive is not a loop, less spin.

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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    When first decided to experiment with pimples out (just a phase) I was also told that i would get no grip and would not be able to create any spin. I found though that was exactly BS. I remember Using the 729 802-40-mystery III and could create enough spin in serve to piss off my opponent and plenty of spin to do backhand flicks.


    I like 802-40. I gave a sheet to one of my practice partners and he likes it a lot. 802-40 can generate a lot of spin but it doesn't do as well at brushing an incoming top spin balls as a normal inverted rubber will. The coefficient of friction must be less because there is less surface contact surface with the ball. What I have noticed is that 802-40 spins well when going with the incoming spin like when looping back back spin balls. It doesn't do as well when trying to apply top spin to an incoming top spin ball. The ball does seems to slip more because I am trying to reverse the spin. but I have no real evidence of that. 802-40 doesn't have the tangential COR that good inverted rubbers has but arm /paddle speed can make up for that.

    Ideally we should find a way of preventing the manufacturers using their BS to sell their wares on us. We would all have to agree on some commonly accepted parameters and numbers.
    There is the coefficient of restitution. The COR does vary depending on impact speed and angle. The COR is the only true way of getting values we can use to compare. There is the normal and tangential COR. Only two things

    This will never happen of course. I said it before, Manufacturers do not want us to be able to compare apples with apples and this is why number like Speed 12 - Control 10 - spin 11 etc mean absolutely NOTHING

    Agree, the TT manufacturers WANT to keep people ignorant.

    I am running out of 802-40. Zeropong no longer sells it.

  8. lodro is offline
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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I like 802-40. I gave a sheet to one of my practice partners and he likes it a lot. 802-40 can generate a lot of spin but it doesn't do as well at brushing an incoming top spin balls as a normal inverted rubber will. The coefficient of friction must be less because there is less surface contact surface with the ball. What I have noticed is that 802-40 spins well when going with the incoming spin like when looping back back spin balls. It doesn't do as well when trying to apply top spin to an incoming top spin ball. The ball does seems to slip more because I am trying to reverse the spin. but I have no real evidence of that. 802-40 doesn't have the tangential COR that good inverted rubbers has but arm /paddle speed can make up for that.


    There is the coefficient of restitution. The COR does vary depending on impact speed and angle. The COR is the only true way of getting values we can use to compare. There is the normal and tangential COR. Only two things


    Agree, the TT manufacturers WANT to keep people ignorant.

    I am running out of 802-40. Zeropong no longer sells it.

    https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32540216022.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.b6f52a5bzxcjgh&algo_pvid=ceb2a98b-a413-4e8a-a463-f70ba6c68116&algo_exp_id=ceb2a98b-a413-4e8a-a463-f70ba6c68116-7&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2265835350088%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21NZD%21%2120.45%21%21%21%21%21%402101d8b516520739696398956e7964%2165835350088%21sea

    He still got 990 pieces left
    😁


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    #49
    Hi!
    Spin vs grip:
    To me, spin is the amount of rotation (in rpm) you can get on the ball. Grip can maybe be seen as related to throw angle, the maximum angle measured from the normal of the bat which is possible in a stroke without slip. That is, a less slippy rubber may then be seen as more grippy. Tacky is to me related to grippy. The matter is confusing, I agree.

  10. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Maybe because they change rubbers every 3 weeks anyway. Or they are sponsored. We are not.

    use half of what you use on your Hurricane, and it should give you 2 months of hard hitting for males.

    if you a female, then reboost again in 2 months, and hopefully it can last you 4 months and again to the 6 month mark.
    No myth, (have to highlight, actual real life experience with my own eyes)
    And many who are not sponsored, do go through this kind of rubbers a year. Playing "semi" pro tt isn't cheap.

    TTT

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte

    Fully agree.

    One example.. in Korea a Drive is actually a loop, in USA a drive is not a loop, less spin.

    I've given up on the terminology on forums.
    I just make sure my students understands what I want from them.
    Have to say, Chinese has deeper meaning than English words, so sorry to the ones using English.

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  12. lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    I've given up on the terminology on forums.
    I just make sure my students understands what I want from them.
    Have to say, Chinese has deeper meaning than English words, so sorry to the ones using English.

    ha ha , deeper meaning words are simply giving additional chance of creating confusion .
    As in : A spade is either just a spade.........................but can of course also be a "long handled dirt digging implement " 😁


  13. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I like 802-40. I gave a sheet to one of my practice partners and he likes it a lot. 802-40 can generate a lot of spin but it doesn't do as well at brushing an incoming top spin balls as a normal inverted rubber will. The coefficient of friction must be less because there is less surface contact surface with the ball. What I have noticed is that 802-40 spins well when going with the incoming spin like when looping back back spin balls. It doesn't do as well when trying to apply top spin to an incoming top spin ball. The ball does seems to slip more because I am trying to reverse the spin. but I have no real evidence of that. 802-40 doesn't have the tangential COR that good inverted rubbers has but arm /paddle speed can make up for that.


    There is the coefficient of restitution. The COR does vary depending on impact speed and angle. The COR is the only true way of getting values we can use to compare. There is the normal and tangential COR. Only two things


    Agree, the TT manufacturers WANT to keep people ignorant.

    I am running out of 802-40. Zeropong no longer sells it.
    But doesn’t friction NOT depend on contact area and only depend on pressure and smoothness?
    Modestly, Leo

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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    use half of what you use on your Hurricane, and it should give you 2 months of hard hitting for males.

    if you a female, then reboost again in 2 months, and hopefully it can last you 4 months and again to the 6 month mark.
    No myth, (have to highlight, actual real life experience with my own eyes)
    And many who are not sponsored, do go through this kind of rubbers a year. Playing "semi" pro tt isn't cheap.

    I don’t boost, and I don’t want to boost. I’d like more to improve my skill to make up for the lost speed.
    I have friends who play top 10 in Beijing U17s, they boost every time, and their rubbers wear out every three weeks from training more than two hours a day. They change everytime they play a tournament. And it all comes out of their own pockets. It’s not cheap.
    Modestly, Leo

  15. Gozo is offline
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    #55
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    I don’t boost, and I don’t want to boost. I’d like more to improve my skill to make up for the lost speed.
    I have friends who play top 10 in Beijing U17s, they boost every time, and their rubbers wear out every three weeks from training more than two hours a day. They change everytime they play a tournament. And it all comes out of their own pockets. It’s not cheap.
    You are a strange man indeed my friend. You want to use chinese hard tacky rubber and yet you do not want to boost it? Then why not use Japanese like Fastarc G1 or ESN rubber that do not require boosting and can play instantly out of packaging?

    It is like you are dating a hot college girl but strictly for platonic / friendship only. Indeed strange,

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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    You are a strange man indeed my friend. You want to use chinese hard tacky rubber and yet you do not want to boost it? Then why not use Japanese like Fastarc G1 or ESN rubber that do not require boosting and can play instantly out of packaging?

    It is like you are dating a hot college girl but strictly for platonic / friendship only. Indeed strange,
    What do you really get from boosting?
    Much depends on how you play. If you play close to the table then speed is not as important as spin to point. Tacky rubbers are very good for brushing and this allows one to hit balls that don't go fast but can be placed at an angle. My practice partner was complaining about my short loops at angles such that he couldn't reach the ball.

    You have to remember that boosting only makes the ball a little spinnier or faster but this can be compensated by just swinging faster. There is no magic.

  17. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    I don’t boost, and I don’t want to boost. I’d like more to improve my skill to make up for the lost speed.
    I have friends who play top 10 in Beijing U17s, they boost every time, and their rubbers wear out every three weeks from training more than two hours a day. They change everytime they play a tournament. And it all comes out of their own pockets. It’s not cheap.

    then 3 weeks sounds more like DHS, Butterfly can last longer.
    If you do over boost on butterfly, it will become too soft and die out a lot earlier.
    I know you don't boost, but just pointing out that butterfly rubbers can still be boasted.

    And indeed, it isn't a cheap sport.

    TTT

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    #58
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    What do you really get from boosting?

    I still remember I ask a coach (who had a WR3 U18 player in his team), the different of 09C and H3Neo boost and unboosted.
    Long story short, the margin of error on difficult shots with boosted H3Neo is more stable than the other 3 possibilities.
    What research was done? The player's feeling after testing those rubbers out. Yes, the old school method of trial and error.

    I think some things, you need to be that level to understand the execution. In Chinese we call it the feeling of eating/biting the ball. I would say this is the main thing of boosting. Not speed, not spin.

    If you are not that level, you will never be able to use the true performance provided by such equipment and the rest is just theory (and some times there is way too much theory). Just like me watching those cooking channels or driving a high performance car - both being untrained. Its only soso and I won't be able to really experience the true quality.

    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 05-10-2022 at 05:46 AM.
    TTT

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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    What do you really get from boosting?
    ...
    ...
    You have to remember that boosting only makes the ball a little spinnier or faster but this can be compensated by just swinging faster. There is no magic.
    I guess that is why pros boost because they can't swing faster unlike us amateurs.

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    #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dajdosta
    I guess that is why pros boost because they can't swing faster unlike us amateurs.
    No. We can win by swinging faster and becoming better because we are not at a level where improving in skill give you no significant advantage against your opponents. For pros, they swing hard to begin with, and use the booster to achieve over the top. For us, we swing harder or use boosters so we don’t have to swing that hard. You don’t understand the concept here.
    Modestly, Leo

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