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  1. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    Thats not a lot of hours hey, compared to sports school.
    so you say "pro", how pro are these players?
    Beijing junior team?

    Mostly not. Some however are close to that level. Or a few have achieved it.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Mostly not. Some however are close to that level. Or a few have achieved it.

    I find that very difficult to achieve.
    They training less than half of what sports schools / provincial players are training. Not to mention, burden with normal school work too.

    TTT

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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    I find that very difficult to achieve.
    They training less than half of what sports schools / provincial players are training. Not to mention, burden with normal school work too.

    MOST don’t. MOST don’t get close. Some of the top get close to the bottom of provincial team level. And some, like Yaping’s son, are actually at the level because he has “additional resources” and a good coach.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #44
    Not to mention that I think one of the people last year was in this school because he was in the provincial junior team. He qualified for a TT scholarship or something.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #45

    How many foreigners have you seen at clubs? Doesn’t have to be something recent but just in general.

    Were any of these people any good? How well could they hang with the average club member?


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    #46
    Bird,

    Is your school a regular / average school in Beijing or are you attending a private / elite type school?

    You seem to describe a lot of high level players. I am just wondering if this is the norm or are you in some special elite school? Just to get to know the context.

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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gozo
    Bird,

    Is your school a regular / average school in Beijing or are you attending a private / elite type school?

    You seem to describe a lot of high level players. I am just wondering if this is the norm or are you in some special elite school? Just to get to know the context.
    It’s a Public school, one of the best middle schools in Beijing. The thing is, our school focuses on TT as the main sport, like many American high school football teams. Our school takes in a lot of chosen talent every year. One girl who is really good at the game, skipped 2 grades into my school because they wanted her on the team.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ricospin

    How many foreigners have you seen at clubs? Doesn’t have to be something recent but just in general.

    Were any of these people any good? How well could they hang with the average club member?

    “Clubs” aren’t really a thing here as far as I know. It’s either training camps for people or teams for players. Other people play in public courts.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    “Clubs” aren’t really a thing here as far as I know. It’s either training camps for people or teams for players. Other people play in public courts.

    clubs (like in the west) are for amateurs
    in China, semi-pro/pro start from sport school, regional team (city team), prov and national team.
    Its a up or out policy - ie if you aged but didn't go up, you are out (kids could pursue academic).
    then you get pro clubs when you get a bit older (the super league, and jia a, b, c, d etc)

    I do know there are more schools with TT on the side nowadays, than full on sport schools.
    But the results of such "on the side" is new to me.
    EVERYONE I know, is from sport school route.
    Hence, that is why it surprises me that so little TT training and high academic pressure can result in "good players"

    I think the other thing is the definition of "good".
    Have these "good" players achieved anything nationally?

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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    clubs (like in the west) are for amateurs
    in China, semi-pro/pro start from sport school, regional team (city team), prov and national team.
    Its a up or out policy - ie if you aged but didn't go up, you are out (kids could pursue academic).
    then you get pro clubs when you get a bit older (the super league, and jia a, b, c, d etc)

    I do know there are more schools with TT on the side nowadays, than full on sport schools.
    But the results of such "on the side" is new to me.
    EVERYONE I know, is from sport school route.
    Hence, that is why it surprises me that so little TT training and high academic pressure can result in "good players"

    I think the other thing is the definition of "good".
    Have these "good" players achieved anything nationally?

    Last year two players got 5th place men’s doubles in the national U16 championships. Lots of players have top 20 awards in Beijing Championships. One first place, one third place, and one seventh place in my grade.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #51
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Last year two players got 5th place men’s doubles in the national U16 championships. Lots of players have top 20 awards in Beijing Championships. One first place, one third place, and one seventh place in my grade.

    If they are very serious of TT, how come they not in Beijing team (北京市先農壇體育技術運動學校)?

    TTT

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    #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    If they are very serious of TT, how come they not in Beijing team (北京市先農壇體育技術運動學校)?

    That Chinese is a sports school, not the official Beijing team.
    I DONT KNOW WHY! Their life choices and personal details are unknown to me, and should remain that way in a non-obsessive friendship. Maybe they want to use TT as a boost in academics, maybe they want to immigrate and be a pro in other countries, maybe they want another life.
    If you insist on distrusting me then move on! How they play and where they play do not affect us. I have said all I know and heard, and I have no more to give on the subject. Choose what you believe, I’m dry of information.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #53
    But if you would like to see some footage of them playing, I could ask them for you.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #54
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    That Chinese is a sports school, not the official Beijing team.
    I DONT KNOW WHY! Their life choices and personal details are unknown to me, and should remain that way in a non-obsessive friendship. Maybe they want to use TT as a boost in academics, maybe they want to immigrate and be a pro in other countries, maybe they want another life.
    If you insist on distrusting me then move on! How they play and where they play do not affect us. I have said all I know and heard, and I have no more to give on the subject. Choose what you believe, I’m dry of information.

    What part of my questions shows distrust?

    Ding Ning, Ma Long went to that school. It is one of official elite table tennis sport schools in China and home base of the Beijing (junior) team.

    This kind of "sport school" (or sport strong school) is the same in all strong sport countries.
    Some schools will be strong in basketball, so any one who want to make it to the NCAA/NBA will pursue that option.
    It is kind of the 99% progressing trend, or atleast for table tennis in TT strong China.

    Obviously you might not know the personal reasoning, but if they are that good, then going into such a luxurious sport school could be an option (but then sacrificing academics).

    From a couple of friends (prov coaches), more kids are focusing on academics (early on) than decades ago.

    I am always eager to follow the trends, and I do chat to kids on why here, not there type of questions.

    And for the westerners, Zhang Yining is currently coaching there (of course she graduated from that school too)

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    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 05-18-2022 at 05:03 PM.
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    #55
    Help me understand how is the mood over there during the lockdown. Like how many people feel so and so. And also, if you dare, how it develops over the last month... Cheers.

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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    What part of my questions shows distrust?

    Ding Ning, Ma Long went to that school. It is one of official elite table tennis sport schools in China and home base of the Beijing (junior) team.

    This kind of "sport school" (or sport strong school) is the same in all strong sport countries.
    Some schools will be strong in basketball, so any one who want to make it to the NCAA/NBA will pursue that option.
    It is kind of the 99% progressing trend, or atleast for table tennis in TT strong China.

    Obviously you might not know the personal reasoning, but if they are that good, then going into such a luxurious sport school could be an option (but then sacrificing academics).

    From a couple of friends (prov coaches), more kids are focusing on academics (early on) than decades ago.

    I am always eager to follow the trends, and I do chat to kids on why here, not there type of questions.

    And for the westerners, Zhang Yining is currently coaching there (of course she graduated from that school too)

    I can see that the school is great. But “北京乒乓球队” is team Beijing. Anyway, I get the point.
    The friends I know aren’t exactly the very best of their age, but they are top 50-75 in Beijing no problem. They do have official certificates for that. They also are “National Class One Athletes” which is how we class how good an athlete is.
    I think what happened is that these people trained as hard as the provincial team people before middle school, and at 11-12, the provincial team takes in some willing players. Then, for the first few years, their skill level doesn’t have a massive difference. That is why they still compete together. The girl I talked about earlier, she is 13 and in 9th grade. Technically she can finish middle school in a few months, and still join the provincial team.
    Modestly, Leo

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    #57
    Quote Originally Posted by bzing
    I'm no fan of the commie flag obviously that's in the video but for me it feels like the Chinese treat the ball as if the ball was the punching bag. And when you punch a bag in boxing you'd very quickly find out how important it is to include every single mechanic of each of your body part to put into that punching bag.

    The technique that most players in Europe use is often too linear and clunky and therefore is not as interesting to watch in fact the moment I see the typical arm compact bent arm swing that's often associated when using ESN rubbers it just becomes so boring and cliched and insipid and uninspiring to watch I usually just turn off the video half-way through.

    Well said.

    I think this tradition starts from 30 or 40 years ago when China Table Tennis was still focusing on Pips-out Tradition Chines Penhold and fast attack. Rally was the thing they tried to avoid, and they endeavored to end the point on one attack. That influences their current style and equipment preference. Tradition, current techniques and unique equipment are working for the same goal, a successful combination.


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    #58
    Maybe the culture is changing? I think it is difficult for Sweden to compete with Asia since not many parents want to sacrifice education due to tabletennis and education is highly valued so not so good careerchoice to choose to almost just play tabletennis. I think some almost do not go to high school, but i do not think many parents support it and pretty hard to read high school at 40 years of age if you do not want to work with tabletennis. And also not really culturally okey to push children so hard in sport here . I can imagine the culture, status and money is different in China towards tabletennis?

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    #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lula
    Maybe the culture is changing? I think it is difficult for Sweden to compete with Asia since not many parents want to sacrifice education due to tabletennis and education is highly valued so not so good careerchoice to choose to almost just play tabletennis. I think some almost do not go to high school, but i do not think many parents support it and pretty hard to read high school at 40 years of age if you do not want to work with tabletennis. And also not really culturally okey to push children so hard in sport here . I can imagine the culture, status and money is different in China towards tabletennis?

    This has changed a lot in China in the past 15 years.
    Not just for academics, but also diluted by other sports too.

    30-40 years ago, China in general was still very 3rd world and sports (TT) was a get out of poverty ticket.
    Fast forward today, you need to have money to do well, as those coaches aren't cheap (for private training).
    And of course there are so much more sporting options today.

    From coaches who coach in the provincial setup, they said the feed from sport schools has weakened/reduced over the years.
    But from Chinese netizens/fans, they all disagree and say its stronger than ever before (I think they won't say anything bad about China).

    Funny enough, Sweden wise, I talked to a former junior coach not so long ago, and today he is still very involved with TT in the world - including Sweden.
    And he said, TT in Swedish schools has died out compared to when he was still playing (I guess he is in his 40-50s today) and it is just a few clubs holding the sport alive. He also said the club member base has shrunk (i can't remember the figures he gave me)

    And to other sporting strong countries like Japan and Taiwan - where education focus has a high priority - they actually pushing for more kids to be involved with sports.
    So in Taiwan, more and more "normal" elementary schools have started TT teams (thus opening up employment opportunities for coaches) and thus making Taiwan one of the strongest elementary school table tennis system in the world (maybe only behind Japan). Of course in Taiwan, Badminton is also doing well, but the court size is a challenge, whereby TT, you will always be able to clear a basement and put 6 to 10 tables in.

    However, in Taiwan, Education is still a big factor, so after elementary, a big portion (over 50%) will stop playing, while a minority of them will continue in sport school options, while the majority other will just continue a "b grade' or just "fun".
    That is for 3 years of junior high (gr 7-9)
    then for senior high, maybe the same dropout ratio.
    So it is also an up or out - out for academics reasoning.

    and mind you, Taiwan of the countries I've listed is the only one that doesn't have a Pro system (league) for players to pursue (there is no professional team/club), all the success is self funded, with of course some help from gov/corporates along the way.

    Let me add, of those that stay in the TT sport schooling system, if they are A grade, they can end up coaching at elementary schools and earn over double of what a normal university degree graduate with get (so that isn't bad)
    But the working hours is afternoon and evenings, and including Saturdays.
    Sundays too when there is tournaments.

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    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 05-19-2022 at 08:55 AM.
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    #60
    Interesting to hear! as a physiotherapystudent and 30 year old coach in my free time, i also feel we have big problem that kids move much less in general so their motor control is much worse than generations ago which serious limit their ability to learn hard tabletennis technique. I can imagine it is the same in the whole world, aswell in asia?

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