Help needed: How to deal with soft / no spin / minimal spin short ball

I am looper, FH dominant. I use European set up and love playing mid to far table loop a loop. My winning condition is powerful forehand loop while defending with BH ( but I am working on a more aggressive BH counter - work in progress )

I am having trouble with my club mates who all now know my weakness to the max and is exploiting it to my detriment. They serve short, return short. They drop shot with little spin to no spin near the net. Also for ease of definition, a short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.

I prefer to loop winners from away the table. My problem is slow in getting in and out. Also, if I push, the ball tend to pop up high and my opponent will punch ( BH ) or smash ( FH ) and get a point from me. Or another problem is when I push and the ball, due to low spin, it is floaty and goes out of the table.

To summerize: How to deal with:

Short low to no spin ball that is floaty? Definition of short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.

Thanks a lot my dear Komrad in TT.

NB: An oft repeated mantra in my club is, " When playing with Gozo, ball should not leave the table "

Originally Posted by Gozo

I am looper, FH dominant. I use European set up and love playing mid to far table loop a loop. My winning condition is powerful forehand loop while defending with BH ( but I am working on a more aggressive BH counter - work in progress )I am having trouble with my club mates who all now know my weakness to the max and is exploiting it to my detriment. They serve short, return short. They drop shot with little spin to no spin near the net. Also for ease of definition, a short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.I prefer to loop winners from away the table. My problem is slow in getting in and out. Also, if I push, the ball tend to pop up high and my opponent will punch ( BH ) or smash ( FH ) and get a point from me. Or another problem is when I push and the ball, due to low spin, it is floaty and goes out of the table.To summerize: How to deal with:Short low to no spin ball that is floaty? Definition of short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.Thanks a lot my dear Komrad in TT.NB: An oft repeated mantra in my club is, " When playing with Gozo, ball should not leave the table "

No spin or light spin: FH flickModerate spin to heavy: BH banana flickeverything: pushRemember to put your right(dominant side) foot in front when you push or flick, it’s like taking a step forward. Maybe if there is no spin, you can finesse the shot and improvise. The true pain is when they play short and spinny.

1. Flick to some not very expected place, so you don't get powerful attack back, but something you can deal with
2. Push short until you or your opponents get long ball and initiate attack
3. Push not very short, so it won't be easy for your opponents to return short
4. Push short with some underspin, then push with sidespin, people might return higher ball and let you attack

Cyvirat said:
1. Flick to some not very expected place, so you don't get powerful attack back, but something you can deal with
2. Push short until you or your opponents get long ball and initiate attack
3. Push not very short, so it won't be easy for your opponents to return short
4. Push short with some underspin, then push with sidespin, people might return higher ball and let you attack
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Dr Evil said:
If you're slow getting in and out, flipping probably shouldn't be your first option. Same for playing short short. I'd work on long and half long pushes, looking to get a slow loop coming back. Focus on placement and variation.

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Thanks to the both of you. Nice points. Will try to incorporate them into my gameplay. Now, why didn't I think of pushing long. My opponent push short and I also push back to him short; which I am suckered into playing into his strength.

I am a looper and hence I tend to stand a little further from the table to give me the space to loop. I need a big swing to make my shot count, very tennisish type of player.

Yeah, I have no issue moving left to right and vice-versa, but when coming to forward and reverse tend to be slow. I will push long and wait for their long return which is my favourite condition.

Darn it! Why I did not just think of these tactics. I feel so silly right now...

Originally Posted by Gozo

I am looper, FH dominant. I use European set up and love playing mid to far table loop a loop. My winning condition is powerful forehand loop while defending with BH ( but I am working on a more aggressive BH counter - work in progress )

I am having trouble with my club mates who all now know my weakness to the max and is exploiting it to my detriment. They serve short, return short. They drop shot with little spin to no spin near the net. Also for ease of definition, a short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.

I prefer to loop winners from away the table. My problem is slow in getting in and out. Also, if I push, the ball tend to pop up high and my opponent will punch ( BH ) or smash ( FH ) and get a point from me. Or another problem is when I push and the ball, due to low spin, it is floaty and goes out of the table.

To summerize: How to deal with:

Short low to no spin ball that is floaty? Definition of short ball means the ball bounces twice on the table.

Thanks a lot my dear Komrad in TT.

NB: An oft repeated mantra in my club is, " When playing with Gozo, ball should not leave the table "

Open racket, smack the ball top of the bounce.

If you can reliably get over the table flick the ball. I would start with smacking cause it is easier on the feet.

Originally Posted by vvk1

The reason your (OP's) pushes of nospin/"floaty" balls pop up is that you're late to get to them

As a looper waiting for a looping opportunity, it is very typical to be late on short pushes against other short pushes. If they are popping up, it's because of other factors, like the vertical direction of his push and racket angles, etc.

Here is Ma Long and FZD taking turns short pushing late. https://youtu.be/aNafrfuqZJ4?t=125

When they serve/return short, be sure to return the ball really quickly and keep it short a couple of returns, until you get them unbalanced, and out of pace, then push a little longer into the body, or towards a corner if it works better with certain players. Then you'll certainly get some looping opportunities when they return the ball in an unbalanced state. If you work harder with this than your opponent, you'll get rewarded.

All this is easier done with a more linear setup of course, and a bit harder with bouncy rubbers like yours.

Some basic fundamentals, so if you not doing it well, then practice more of them:
- push the ball long, or medium long (second bounce on the edge of the table)
- flick the ball long
- drop the ball short towards the 2 sides - to start a top spin game.

If your strengths is top spin, then your service return needs to guide you to a top spin rally and that is all based on your service return placement - so train more of that.
If you can't do that, your love of playing loop only applies for training and not for matches

Yeah. This just sounds like something you need to work on and practice. You can work on it with your coach. But these are basics. It is fun to talk about being a looper. But if you have trouble handling the short game, and people can keep you from getting to where you loop, then you should think about what you mean by that statement. What you are describing is simple game skills and the stage you are at is just a part of starting to develop the basic skills of the game. But, it is good that you are solid at looping when the opportunity presents itself.

Now you have to work on your short game. From the standpoint of getting to your looping skills, the short game is more important because if you can't get past it, then you won't get to loop. Once someone reaches a certain level, you get to different problems with short game. To be able to be a looper, you kind of have to have a good short game so you can get to your looping skills.

The more you work on developing these skills, the sooner you will be able to better handle the stuff you are talking about and get to your offensive shots. So, short game is always a skill you have to develop and keep working on in TT.

To be a higher level player you have to be able to read spin on the ball, you have to be able to handle incoming spin, you have to be able to adapt to short game, close to the table game, mid-distance game and long game. If you do one thing very well in training that is all fine and good, but you can't get to the flashier skills without the fundamentals: the first thing that should be worked on is the short game, (the serve, the receive, the third ball...anything over the table).

BTW: I know people who will say something like: "I am better than _______ (put any name you want in), but when we play matches, I lose and it is very frustrating." And I have heard things like this many times. But, the truth of the matter is, if the person saying that is losing matches to someone they think they are better than, there is something fundamental to the skills of the game that they person who is winning those matches is better at. If that were not the case, that person would not be winning the matches.

So, the good thing is, you know the skills you are good at. You don't need to work on them as much even though it is fun to practice looping with your better side. You know the skills you need to work on. They are harder and more frustrating to work on. But they are more fundamental to the actual skills need to win matches.