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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    I guess I never gave too much thought to push quality and push placement. Obviously lower and spinnier is better, but I didn't feel like there's a clear path to improve your push(unlike a loop which has a more direct path to improvement).

    When I think about it, I think 90% of my pushes are directly back in the same direction that it came, and 90% of pushes basically are towards the center of the opponent's table. I think I do this just to be safe and keep the ball in play. Against partner, it isn't a problem. But I noticed that against the 2000 guy, he just punished every single push that I did into the center.

    Because you never took the time to REALLY work on the short game/pushes tactics, you play safe... and then experienced players will think you're too much predictable.

    Try to play a whole 11 pts game against someone ranked the same as you are with the short game and pushes strategy ONLY, it's long, sometimes frustrating of course, BUT at the end of the day you'll notice a huge improvement in your general ball control, being either variation of spin or ball placement

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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrighty67

    I found that recently I made the most points by ensuring I never pushed twice in the same place or length and also by focusing on deeper pushes to either side.

    Sometimes I do it... wrong-foot : short push on the FH side, the opponent pushes mid table on my BH because he's a FH attack pivot guy who needs that ball to be pushed deeper in his BH side, and then I wait the very last moment to see if he's actually pivoting: if he pivots too much early, then I punish him wrong-foot by playing the exact same ball placement with the same push on his FH and... easy point for me. It's like shooting a penalty slowly against a football goalkeeper !

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    Last edited by OldUser; 05-18-2022 at 05:26 PM.

  3. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by OldUser

    Because you never took the time to REALLY work on the short game/pushes tactics, you play safe... and then experienced players will think you're too much predictable.

    Try to play a whole 11 pts game against someone ranked the same as you are with the short game and pushes strategy ONLY, it's long, sometimes frustrating of course, BUT at the end of the day you'll notice a huge improvement in your general ball control, being either variation of spin or ball placement

    Yes, I had this exact same idea. I was thinking to do this today. What are the strategies to try in this type of game?


  4. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Yes, I had this exact same idea. I was thinking to do this today. What are the strategies to try in this type of game?

    I would focus on getting the ball where you want exactly on the table and not allowing opponent to smack it.

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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    I would focus on getting the ball where you want exactly on the table and not allowing opponent to smack it.

    Indeed but not only, it's only the 2nd phase of the training: BOTH opponents have to play the same strategy first, then the game after, one of the opponents tries to smack it, and then on the 3rd game it's the other one's turn to try


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    #46
    And you can also add some difficulty in the 2nd part/phase: successfull smack 2pts, unsuccessfull... 2 pts for the opponent ! successfull slow opening loop the regular 1 pt...
    Last edited by OldUser; 05-18-2022 at 07:22 PM.

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    #47

    Hey Michael, we all understand the frustration playing against someone with better skills. I say "Better Skills" because "Rating" is just a reference/number.
    And I agree with many guys here, that a better player can read the game faster and figuring out how to play you quickly.
    Next time, record yourself and learn from that.
    On my side, I 'm recording my training sessions and tournaments, and then I learn from that.
    My current USATT rating is 2250 and I understand what you say when I play against 2500/2600+ players.
    Learning: Keep training hard, the only way to improve. My best wishes in this journey. 😊


  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #48
    Yeah. Some of what Michael is asking is just what a real coach would work on with you when they watch you play matches. Trying to learn by yourself is like the long slow method. A good coach will watch you play matches, see what you need to work on, and get you to work on those things so you improve. Trouble is, there are a lot of coaches who just get people to do block training and get them to look better but they don't get their students to work on the skills for improving actual match play.

    So, a good coach. Not a coach that helps your looping look good without improving the game skills.

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  9. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #49
    Yeah so I practiced a little differently today than I usually do. Against my usual partner, we played a set where both sides can only push underspin. I tried my best to sorta copy the 2000 guy's style and dude hard pushes deep into the corners and a few short pushes near the net. I won this 3-1.

    Then I played a guy who I think is around 1200-1300, who is incredibly consistent but doesn't have super high shot quality. I tried to be proactive against this guy and use my opening loops directly on his serves. I beat him 4-1.

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    #50
    Good ! now the point is: did you feel any improvement in your time reaction and general ball control/feeling ? the way your brain could process faster... or not to build tactics, here it means placement and spin variations ?

  11. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #51
    Well, i think my push placement got a little better, and gradually my bite on the push got better. My pushes became a little harder and more downward angled. Also i became more mentally aware that the push may come to any part of my table.

    Against the 1300 guy, i usually play very conservatively because there are established wats i can win points. but then i dont get to try out new shots on him. When i try out new shots, i realize there are many shots i can make against him. For example i can loop his serve on both bh and fh. I can smash drive instead of just a safe drive.

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    #52
    Good article from Samson Dubina: The Details of Pushing

    Maybe not as much fun, but definitely worth putting as much work into pushing as looping.

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    #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Evil
    Good article from Samson Dubina: The Details of Pushing

    Maybe not as much fun, but definitely worth putting as much work into pushing as looping.

    Thanks, I think I have neglected my push game and should be my main focus the next 2 months.

    Question: Should the push be sliced along (parallel) the same angel as the blade? Or should the racket move a little perpendicular to the blade angle?


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    #54

    It all depends on the backspin imparted by the opponent + the spin and ball placement variation you want to impart to your ball, sometimes a "ghost push", meaning pushing with a less opened angle racket to impart less backspin can trick your opponent and make him push "up" and raise the ball so that you can smack it right after, or even make him push too long and out the table's end.

    The Samson Dubina's article is really good here for racket angles when pushing.


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    #55
    Honestly , it depend on how your rating is. If you are 1800+ and play with 2000+ player, you might have a chances. For those 2000+ player, they have a solid skills of combination set up . They know how to move you around and you will likely to lose point if you fall into their traps.

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    #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Thanks, I think I have neglected my push game and should be my main focus the next 2 months.

    Question: Should the push be sliced along (parallel) the same angel as the blade? Or should the racket move a little perpendicular to the blade angle?

    You need to learn all styles of the push.
    bat angle, where to brush on the rubber, on the bounce or late, wrist speed, arm power (or lack of), placement
    you need the full house

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  17. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #57
    I played the 2000 guy again, and I finally won 1 game against him. A couple other games went to deuce, and I had one game up 4-0 on him where I ended up losing. His speed and timing is just different from what I'm used to. His pushes come hard and fast and I'm always rushing to respond to them.

    But a couple things I did differently:

    I tried to push him in different directions, instead of just pushing down the middle. At first this won me a few points as he was surprised, but then he adapted to my new strategy.

    I tried to topspin return against his serve, which won me a few points. But I also lost a lot of points from just misreading his serve. His serve is really hard to read, it comes as heavy under, or side under, or no spin, and they all look the same. Every time I receive his serve, I just feel like i'm totally gambling. I kind of have a hunch what spin it is, but its like 50/50 whether I guessed right or wrong.

  18. Lycanthrope is offline
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    #58
    He is willing to show his serves. That is good. Most advanced players won't be bothered using deceptive serve when casual playing.

  19. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #59
    So how can I read his serve? Most of his serves are with the backhand, and they all look the same.

  20. Lycanthrope is offline
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    #60
    Just observe when he is paying you and others, you don't need to pay for it. Pay attention on racket angle and timing.
    Last edited by Lycanthrope; 4 Weeks Ago at 06:06 AM.

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