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  1. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    that is still not a pro.
    at most, semi-pro

    Pros should be called full time table tennis athletes (unless table tennis in your country belongs inside a garage?)

    You do need to mix income or full time into the equation (the amount earn would vary per country)
    Pro isn't only on playing levels, however most amateurs will see it as only levels.

    Let me ask you, for example: "I play table tennis professionally". What does that imply to you?

    In Asia, if you go into a sport school and train in the system - you are considered a pro trained player (student age).
    When you go into university, and continue, you are still a "pro player" (for your student/age)
    When you finish university, and continue to play full time, you are a pro player. If you leave and work full time, and play part time, you are a player with professional training. Or former pro player in uni/school (and there are tons of them in Asia)
    Maybe it will be different in the west, where it is more about the level?

    “Pro” has two meanings:
    1. To describe that somebody is very good at something to a level.
    2. A status meaning someone does something for a living.
    “Professional” only means status.
    Also a question:
    If I spend the same amount of time playing in TT tournaments and earning money from it as another job, would I be a “pro player”?

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    #82
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    “Pro” has two meanings:
    1. To describe that somebody is very good at something to a level.
    2. A status meaning someone does something for a living.
    “Professional” only means status.
    Also a question:
    If I spend the same amount of time playing in TT tournaments and earning money from it as another job, would I be a “pro player”?

    Strictly speaking a "professional" is someone who earns a living from their "profession" rather than simply being "good enough" to be a professional. There are plenty of top amateur athletes or sportsmen/women who are not professional because they do not choose to earn a living from their sport, rather than not being good enough to be a professional.

    An example might be in the game of rugby, where up until 1995 the best teams in the world were not professional as they did not get paid for their on-field efforts.

    To answer your question - yes, you would be a pro player as you are being paid for playing.

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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrighty67

    Strictly speaking a "professional" is someone who earns a living from their "profession" rather than simply being "good enough" to be a professional. There are plenty of top amateur athletes or sportsmen/women who are not professional because they do not choose to earn a living from their sport, rather than not being good enough to be a professional.

    An example might be in the game of rugby, where up until 1995 the best teams in the world were not professional as they did not get paid for their on-field efforts.

    To answer your question - yes, you would be a pro player as you are being paid for playing.

    And as always you did not see that I differentiated “pro” and “professional”.
    “pro” has gained another common meaning in recent years, whether official or not, and is widely used to describe someone who is very good. You could argue accuracy of language, and you would be right, but it’s important to understand what others mean if you want to have a conversation.
    About the question: according to Tony, I would not be “pro” because I don’t play full time.
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    #84
    And for more on the “pro vs amateur” difference, I suggest searching for a player named Zhu Yi. I’d like to see what people classify him as.
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    #85
    Also, would retired players, like Samsonov, Liu Guoliang, Deng Yaping, Jun Mizutani, be amateurs because they no longer play full time for money?
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    #86
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    And as always you did not see that I differentiated “pro” and “professional”.
    “pro” has gained another common meaning in recent years, whether official or not, and is widely used to describe someone who is very good. You could argue accuracy of language, and you would be right, but it’s important to understand what others mean if you want to have a conversation.
    About the question: according to Tony, I would not be “pro” because I don’t play full time.

    Semantics - "Pro" is derived from, and short for "Professional" but I understand your point, people misuse "Pro" and use it as a proxy for top level.

    Have a good day

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  7. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrighty67

    Semantics - "Pro" is derived from, and short for "Professional" but I understand your point, people misuse "Pro" and use it as a proxy for top level.

    Have a good day

    I actually agree with that. There is big differences between pros and very good players. Their motivation. Based on my observations pros often have different mindset. When they are just hitting ball randomly they are not so different, but when they set a mind on something their psychic is of steel. They do not fail even under pressure. I would attribute most of that to the fact that they are used to the fact their living being determined by the result of match. You win, you get money, you loose, you get either no or much less money. Go figure. That being said this is only based on a few players I personally know and observe their matches in all the Polish leagues.

    /devnull

  8. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #88
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    “Pro” has two meanings:
    1. To describe that somebody is very good at something to a level.
    2. A status meaning someone does something for a living.
    “Professional” only means status.
    Also a question:
    If I spend the same amount of time playing in TT tournaments and earning money from it as another job, would I be a “pro player”?

    haha pingbirdpong
    why the angry face?

    Pro is short for Professional or do you want to be a prostitute?

    pro1
    /prəʊ/
    nouninformal
    noun: pro; plural noun: pros

    1.
    a professional, especially in sport.
    "a tennis pro"
    2.
    a prostitute.


    and yes, you won't be a pro if you are not a professional table tennis player.
    You can be a good amateur or semi pro (which is not a full pro)
    And seriously speaking, we use that all the time in China - you should know. It is the same in both languages, so no idea why you so confused.

    TTT

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    #89
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    And for more on the “pro vs amateur” difference, I suggest searching for a player named Zhu Yi. I’d like to see what people classify him as.

    Zhu Yi was professionally trained from age 6 and through the pro system.
    But didn't get into National team, so he went amateur, until his win in 2018 over Dima.
    He made his pro debut in the Super League in 2020.

    What is your question about?

    I don't think you are confused with the word Pro.
    You are confused with the word Amateur.

    definition of Amateur: a person who engages in a pursuit, especially a sport, on an unpaid rather than a professional basis.
    This is the same in both Mandarin and English.
    There are tons of Amateur table tennis players in China, who all went into pro training from age 6. Some will leave at junior or senior high.
    Many of them are good enough to be national champions in many country. But if they are not playing professionally, they are not pro, but very good amateurs.

    You should ask Yang Ying why she also calls them 业余

    TTT

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    #90
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Also, would retired players, like Samsonov, Liu Guoliang, Deng Yaping, Jun Mizutani, be amateurs because they no longer play full time for money?

    This is easy, you confusing coaches and players now.
    Some call it former pro, some call it retired pro.
    The coaches get paid for coaching and still pretty much professionals.

    TTT

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    #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    I actually agree with that. There is big differences between pros and very good players. Their motivation. Based on my observations pros often have different mindset. When they are just hitting ball randomly they are not so different, but when they set a mind on something their psychic is of steel. They do not fail even under pressure. I would attribute most of that to the fact that they are used to the fact their living being determined by the result of match. You win, you get money, you loose, you get either no or much less money. Go figure. That being said this is only based on a few players I personally know and observe their matches in all the Polish leagues.

    I know what you are referring to.

    I have a lot of friends who are pro trained - even former ITTF world ranked players (100~300).
    But they don't earn money playing, so they don't train any more, however are still good enough to play leagues in Europe, but choose to follow other career paths.
    When they do play an odd tournament here and there, the pressure isn't as great as a full time pro player.

    However, one of my friends who is a former Olympian (highest world rank around 30 something), full time coach for over a decade, does get "hired" to play tournaments for a amateur club (being the only paid player in that club).

    He does have a doesn't give up attitude, and will go in those amateur tournaments 100% committed (this is due to his upbringing, old school hardship - running 10km as punishment for example).
    He only had to sleep in for 3 days after a 2 day tournament - he took leave from work (coaching) as he couldn't get out of bed
    So, you can be a former pro and still have the heart for it, but I would say most of them I know, this guy is quite scarce.


    TTT

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    #92
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    Also, would retired players, like Samsonov, Liu Guoliang, Deng Yaping, Jun Mizutani, be amateurs because they no longer play full time for money?

    No - they would be an "ex -pro" ;-)

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  13. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    haha pingbirdpong
    why the angry face?

    Pro is short for Professional or do you want to be a prostitute?

    pro1
    /prəʊ/
    nouninformal
    noun: pro; plural noun: pros

    1.
    a professional, especially in sport.
    "a tennis pro"
    2.
    a prostitute.


    and yes, you won't be a pro if you are not a professional table tennis player.
    You can be a good amateur or semi pro (which is not a full pro)
    And seriously speaking, we use that all the time in China - you should know. It is the same in both languages, so no idea why you so confused.

    Thank you for the explanation, now I can say that my friends in the school team are “Semi-prostitute”
    😂🤣🤪
    Last edited by PingBirdPong; 05-31-2022 at 03:13 PM.
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  14. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #94
    Anyways, when I'm in the west, and some garage pong champion is around and everyone is saying, here comes a ping pong pro.
    I am like, maybe I should just play with my other hand today.

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    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Anyways, when I'm in the west, and some garage pong champion is around and everyone is saying, here comes a ping pong pro.
    I am like, maybe I should just play with my other hand today.
    But on a serious note, you have convinced me. From a language perspective, you are completely correct. Professional and amateur differentiate financially, but a (former)top amateur like Zhu Yi might be better than a lot of professional players.
    I will understand it like this now.
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  16. PingBirdPong is offline
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    #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis
    Anyways, when I'm in the west, and some garage pong champion is around and everyone is saying, here comes a ping pong pro.
    I am like, maybe I should just play with my other hand.

    Speaking of changing hands…
    I remember seeing somewhere that Ma Long and Dima were messing around “ playing with only the left hand”. And “ Xu Xin and Timo Boll were swiftly rejected after their request to join in”
    😁

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    #97
    When saying something or someone is a "pro", the word could be describing either one of two things, the level of work, or who does the job. Need I remind you all those software has the "pro" in the name? It's because said software can produce professional level of work, that's why it's being name a "pro" version, not because only professionals can use it.

    So saying something or someone is a "pro" is different from saying they are "a professional xxx". I agree that saying someone is a "professional xxx" means that their work is of said profession, meaning they make a living out of it. It is also my understanding that, when talking about someone who's clearly not a professional xxx, but saying they're a "pro", it's implying their level of expertise in the field, not their actually profession. I guess using the word "expert" is the more correct way of saying it, so it'll be more like the difference between 专家 and 专业 in Chinese. Also, "pro" has just one syllable, while "expert" has two, guess that's why it's more common to say "pro" cause it's short and sounds "pro".
    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 05-31-2022 at 03:58 PM.

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    #98
    People have different styles, technique, physicality… you can’t say wood blade is better for everyone (non-pro) or carbon blade is better.
    Sure not everyone will benefit from using a carbon blade, but also there are people would benefit from it.

    The technique you develop through years of training is also affected by the equipment. If someone develop their technique (properly) for 10 years with a carbon blade, they would find it very hard to adapt to a wood blade, because the technique doesn’t match the equipment. They like to use power and speed to win but the wood blades are not fast enough for them. And vice versa, someone use wood blades all their life and have a more allround style will probably say carbon blades suck and think they are not good for everyone.

    IMO, pro or not doesn’t matter too much, what’s more important is that the equipments should match the technique, style, physicality, etc…



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    #99
    Maynards blade is 9 ply? and i think Gauzys blade have very hard outer layers? So both are really fast blades? I think it is hard to think like this. I think a carbon blade can be slower and have more control compared to an all wood blade and vice versa?

    I am also a bit lost about: all wood have better feeling but carbon give you bigger sweetspot so which have more control?

    If a player have enough control in serve and return i believe they can have faster blades. Maybe mortals need to have faster equipment compared to the pros that have better technique.

    Personally i try a carbon blade again mostly due to having problem with my shoulder.

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    #100
    I didn't read every pages and every post of course I find a lot of digression, for me carbon blades can be slower than all wood blades but both are goods.
    on old celluloid balls the possesion or dwell time was enormous with all wood blades right now it is harder to get grip on the ball so maybe innerforce type of blade is better
    but you can buy zhang jike zlc for 240 euro and the blade after 20hours breaks and it is useless and big company didn't even responds to your situation so for me better is swallow the pride and buy all wood blade because it easier to buy another for 24 euro

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