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  1. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #1

    Should I leave rubber in plastic seal?



    I just received this new rubber shipped to me by boat, so its been 3 whole months on the boat already plus the time sitting in warehouse.

    Im not sure if its factory boosted or not, but does the plastic seal mean that it is boosted?

    I want to take it out just to test it, but not play with it full time yet. If I just take it out to test it and let it sit around for a month, will that ruin the performance? Should i keep it sealed?

  2. Lazer is offline
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    #2
    No a plastic seal does NOT necessarily mean “boosted”. It is a protection from oxidation. I am surprised that not all rubbers a packaged like this.
    I would leave it in the package regardless. Testing can wait.

    Cheers
    L-zr

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  3. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #3
    What's wrong with oxidation? I have rubber just left in my desk drawer for years, and it doesn't seem like there's anything wrong with it.

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    #4
    That just doesn’t happen, You either can’t tell the difference or the rubber was inferior to start with. It begins by getting hard and after this it starts getting brittle and cracks. This process speeds up when the surrounding air circulates. Just wait and see. That’s one of the reasons the dealers have sales every once in a while…

    Cheers
    L-zr

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  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #5
    Yep. Rubber oxidizes. Exposure to air causes oxygen molecules to attach onto

    the long chains of the rubber molecules and over time makes them less elastic. A simple example is a rubber band that has been sitting in a box for several years; they become brittle and when you try to stretch them, the don't stretch but instead the rubber ruptures, tears and breaks because it did not stretch.

    Another example is if you have ever seen a rubber that is 20-30 years old. It will be hard, brittle, not grippy and pretty awful if you tried to play with it.

    And, not too different from what Lazer said, if you can't tell, it says more about you than about the process of oxidation and rubber deterioration.

    That being said, if you can use the rubber and you can't tell the difference, that is fine for you. But for sure, Lazer is correct that, if you want the rubber to perform at its best when you use it, you should wait to open it until you are going to actually use it. Will you be able to tell if you open it now, try it, put it on the shelf for 9 months, and then start to use it? You may be able to tell and you may not. Based on your comment about the rubber left in your drawer for YEARS, you may not know the difference. But that does not mean there won't be one.

    So, if you want to use it when it is giving you its best performance, either open it now and use it till you wear it out, or leave it in the packaging until you are going to use it.

    You can do what you want. But the answer to your question is exactly what Lazer told you. So feel free to ignore it. But it makes me wonder why you ask all these questions where it seems that you don't want the actual answer.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 05-27-2022 at 06:26 AM.
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  6. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #6
    Well yes, I have seen 20-30 year old rubbers become hard and black and brittle. So I don't doubt that.

    But I'm talking about putting the rubber down for a couple months or so. My original question was about whether booster effect would wear off. But I also don't think rubber would oxidize that much in a matter of months. Anyways, does putting the rubber in a ziplock bag reduce the oxidation?

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Well yes, I have seen 20-30 year old rubbers become hard and black and brittle. So I don't doubt that.

    But I'm talking about putting the rubber down for a couple months or so. My original question was about whether booster effect would wear off. But I also don't think rubber would oxidize that much in a matter of months. Anyways, does putting the rubber in a ziplock bag reduce the oxidation?
    If it is a factory tuned rubber, the booster will evaporate in the course of a few months left in a zip lock bag.

    If it is not boosted, you will likely not notice the difference, but there will be one.

    One time, a friend of mine got Tenergy rubbers from a reputable seller in the US (I am leaving the name out because this was just there standard stock) and I got a some Tenergy rubbers straight from the factory in Japan. We both put our rubbers on the same day and part of the idea was, we were going to see what his blade and my blade felt like (comparison) with the same exact, brand new rubbers on so that the difference was not the issue of the rubbers.

    Well, when we both hit, with that clear comparison, it was very very very clear that his T05 and T05fx had sat on a shelf for a long time in that seller's storeroom while my rubber was fresh and brand new. The difference was stark. I felt bad. He was clearly upset at how obvious it was that the rubbers he had just put on his blade were totally nowhere near as fresh and responsive as the rubbers on my setup. He had no idea that the rubbers felt anything but amazing until we switch. But....once we did, it was unavoidable how clear the difference in rubber quality was. Maybe those rubbers were on the shelf at that seller's for 3-6 months. We don't know. But.....there was not a question about it.

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  8. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #8
    Oh, zip lock bag is probably as good as you can do, to slow the process if you decide to open them and then save them for later. But it won't be as good as that packaging the rubber is in.

    I am just curious, why do you want to try it but not use it?

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  9. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #9
    but tenergy is sealed, right?

    so the sealing didnt protect the rubber?

  10. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    but tenergy is sealed, right?

    so the sealing didnt protect the rubber?
    I don't know if they have changed their packaging. But back then Tenergy was not packaged in air tight wrapping. There were air holes in the packaging spaced a standard distance from each other. I have no idea why. But that is how it was packaged back then.
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  11. mocker88 is offline
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    but tenergy is sealed, right?

    so the sealing didnt protect the rubber?

    I don't think it is. I had some Dignics 05 quite recently and they were not sealed, so I'm quite sure the Tenergy rubbers aren't as well.


  12. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Oh, zip lock bag is probably as good as you can do, to slow the process if you decide to open them and then save them for later. But it won't be as good as that packaging the rubber is in.

    I am just curious, why do you want to try it but not use it?

    I actually bought a bunch of rubbers because i was curious how good each one was. And i was curious if their revspin reviews were actually true. Sometimes forum guys praised a rubber, so i wanted to see for myself if its true. Alot of them havent been true. I was thinking to write a definitive buying guide to all the Chinese rubbers under $15.

    Anyways, i want to test the rubber to find out. But im still trying to wear out the older rubber so they dont just go to waste. I decided i should give each rubber at least a good 8 weeks before retiring it.

    Thats why i want to finish retiring my current rubber


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    #13
    Also, light will also break down rubber so it’s better to store in a dark place. But regardless I try to use as soon as I obtain it…

    But a couple of month should be OK (if it’s boosted I have no idea, but I can imagine the break down happens much faster…)


    Cheers
    L-zr

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    Last edited by Lazer; 05-27-2022 at 09:10 AM.
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    #14
    Just in the name of science i would do it. Open it, test it. Then put it in a ziploc bag and reuse it in a month.

    I don't think you will see any differences, and the ziploc will protect it. If it's factory boosted it will slightly shrink so you will know.

    I have reused palio rubbers left in a ziploc bags for a year, and they play like new.

  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    I actually bought a bunch of rubbers because i was curious how good each one was. And i was curious if their revspin reviews were actually true. Sometimes forum guys praised a rubber, so i wanted to see for myself if its true. Alot of them havent been true. I was thinking to write a definitive buying guide to all the Chinese rubbers under $15.

    Anyways, i want to test the rubber to find out. But im still trying to wear out the older rubber so they dont just go to waste. I decided i should give each rubber at least a good 8 weeks before retiring it.

    Thats why i want to finish retiring my current rubber

    Definitive Buying Guide? One thing I would say is that NOBODY can do that since everybody feels things differently. This is part of why those reviews on Revspin are so besides the point. You don't know the level of the person giving the review. The amount of what the rubber they are using they can utilize, or what they are able to feel.

    And, since you are at a particular level, the things you will feel and notice now would be most relevant to people at a similar level as you. But as a result, it cannot be definitive.

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  16. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #16
    Hope that container wasn't an oven

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    #17
    ESN/Jap rubbers are clearly packaged under the " planned obsolescence" capitalist rule: they know they don't last, and they want you to buy them more often than you would really want to. Those items are made in "western" countries (between "" of course cos' Japan is not a "western" country geographically speaking ) where over consuming is the basic rule. China does not think the same, and they know their rubbers have to wait for export formalities and travel a lot of time by boat. That's why it's obvious that "western" people can't get "factory fresh" chinese rubbers like our chinese friends can get.

    This says a lot about the efforts China has put over its QC process. And a lot about the "western planned obscolescence" rule that has polluted all the industries since 2 decades. The ITTF having hired "Mrs ESN" as their equipment chief has clearly not helped in any manner possible.

    And as Carl rightly said "gently", and I'll be more explicit: you don't seem to be at the minimum level of mastering your equipment to really feel the difference in that area of rubber's oxydation process, so my advice would be like his: don't overthink that issue until you're at least ranked RC 1500 to RC 2000.

    I know some people who use their tensor rubbers since... 2 or even 3 years now (because of lockdowns and being away from the sport arenas for months), ranked around the 1700 and who still use them efficiently.

    But-they-also-use-the-right-blade, see what I mean ? everything is "connected" here.

  18. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

    Definitive Buying Guide? One thing I would say is that NOBODY can do that since everybody feels things differently. This is part of why those reviews on Revspin are so besides the point. You don't know the level of the person giving the review. The amount of what the rubber they are using they can utilize, or what they are able to feel.

    And, since you are at a particular level, the things you will feel and notice now would be most relevant to people at a similar level as you. But as a result, it cannot be definitive.

    Well in any case, I just wanted to write a guide to correct a lot of the information that is being put out there. A lot of times people describe a rubber as being fast, bouncy, or tensor-like, but in fact I have found that to not be true, or only true if it is boosted.

    I can't get every nuance out of the rubber like a pro could, but at least I just mainly want to provide a more factual account of the physical properties of a rubber, particularly the speed/bouciness.


  19. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Well in any case, I just wanted to write a guide to correct a lot of the information that is being put out there. A lot of times people describe a rubber as being fast, bouncy, or tensor-like, but in fact I have found that to not be true, or only true if it is boosted.

    I can't get every nuance out of the rubber like a pro could, but at least I just mainly want to provide a more factual account of the physical properties of a rubber, particularly the speed/bouciness.

    Your motive for information is great.
    But how are you going to benchmark the information to?

    As everything in life, when you get older, or stronger, your perspective on life and everything in it will change too.
    Same applies for your view on equipment characteristics.
    And we only talking about a you at different stages.
    What about everyone else?

    I think you could possible only benchmark it without using proper technique, to be able to give some "generlized" outlook.


    Maybe like this:
    https://youtu.be/G5BNkWN9s1E
    https://youtu.be/3Mi8bDK83K0
    https://youtu.be/O9iuZ0qUXBA

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  20. OldUser is offline
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    #20
    Tony is spot on here, even a pro can't tell how many tackiness or grippiness percentage difference some rubbers will have. All the ESN, BTY, and other big manufacturers use pro industrial measurement tool to really put some numbers on their products, because it is the most impartial and trusty way of labelling a product. The human factor is the less trusty factor in measurement processes. That's why in the QC areas of many factories you don't need to have a high level of education: all kind of measurement tool for any hardness, size or whatever is given to you to do your job quickly and efficiently. I've been working at a QC area of a turbo compressed motoring industry (MAN trucks), and all I was doing all day long was putting different gauges in holes hahaha
    Last edited by OldUser; 05-27-2022 at 05:54 PM.

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