Problems with dandoy.eu

This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Active Member
Sep 2017
778
267
1,221
Read 1 reviews
That’s called inflation… The prices are making up for almost standing still for so long and it’s on everything. Then on top of this we have the Ukrainian war…

lm not surprised…

Cheers
L-zr

Exactly. Prices on everything increase 2 to 3 times. not only on TT equipment. And not only because of Covid. Before Covid prices never changed?
There is nothing new and no reason to sell blades without boxes. I bought just month ago 729 cheap blade and it came with original box. Is 729 has more money then Tibhar?

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,424
6,557
15,952
Read 3 reviews

Exactly. Prices on everything increase 2 to 3 times. not only on TT equipment. And not only because of Covid. Before Covid prices never changed?
There is nothing new and no reason to sell blades without boxes. I bought just month ago 729 cheap blade and it came with original box. Is 729 has more money then Tibhar?

So tell me what "everything" price was twice cheaper then today?

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,424
6,557
15,952
Read 3 reviews
That’s called inflation… The prices are making up for almost standing still for so long and it’s on everything. Then on top of this we have the Ukrainian war… lm not surprised… Cheers L-zr

You got some common sense. someone doesn't believe me when I said there has been lots of cost price increases. My shop only started in 2012, and these 2 years has so many price increased compared to the previous 8+

 
Last edited:
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,860
13,302
30,534
Read 27 reviews

I've stop my business dealings with Butterfly since 2017

you can choose not to believe me, but how many table tennis store owners are on this forum to tell you things that no one would? If you think you know better, than great for you!
I have a table tennis store, you must deal with the brands HQ a lot more than I do.

and who said twice cheaper? you need to reread what I wrote.
increase 2 to 3 times, means the price was increased few % now, and few % another time.
just like fuel/petrol/gas price increase, it has increase many times since pre covid. Maybe in your dream world, nothing has increased in price since covid.

Sadly, in TT world, many brands have increased pricing over the years (with no choice, since many materials do come out of China), and the TT shops are delaying the end user price increase and taking in the costs themselves.

I will support Tony in a few ways with facts. My invoice prices are up x%, I now have to pay around 7-10% on currency and bank fees each invoice. I have to pay 25% customs now on most of my orders. It doesn't matter WHAT the wholesale cost was or how much it went up, my cost of goods is what my retail prices were... no way to stay in business that way without raising prices. I am not BTY, whose hoards of buyers blindly buy expensive lie little sheep, like it, and be the fanboy on the internetz.

Manufacturers are passing on costs to wholesalers, who pass on costs to retailers, who now must pass on costs or stop operations. I am tempted to stop operations myself, I still help people, but it is no longer easy. No one in USA wants to pay $65 usd for a jersey, which is now my cost, no matter how damn good they look and it costs $20+ to letter them... no one wants that, so if I buy inventory, I may be stuck with it... stuck like chuck. you could go big, but in USA, you end up going broke. The USA market can realistically only have two outfits large enough to operate on large scale and actually hire employees and make container sized orders. Trying to go big in that situation is a waste of money.

We could extend that conversation to TT gyms in USA. In my city of Sacramento, USA, a 3 Million population area, there are ZERO full time conventional TT clubs. There are very good reasons for this. It is too expensive to lease an operate a space suitable in excess of the income from the number of members paying and kids taking lessons.

A suitable spot is 15,000 sq ft which in a bad part of the city is around 1USD per sq ft per month, plus utilities run 5-10k usd/mo. That is not considering the initial investment of outfitting the floor and lights and paint and minor improvements to make it playable... which would be a loan of 200k going skimpy. That means TT club owner has overhead of $25,000 usd a MONTH that is BEFORE any income. People here are NOT WILLING to pay more than $60 a month to play unlimited, or they do not show up. You could bring in high level coach and give him 1/2 the coaching fees (40usd for coach, 40usd for owner). You would need 200 members paying 60 usd/mo (12k) and 75 kids taking 1 lesson a week (12k) just to break even every month on the core overhead, which are not all the expenses. The clubs here before who tried to make it barely reached 100 members. The market here is not able to support the huge expenses it takes to run a TT club. That is why owners have tried and FAILED and lost money.

The only way a club survives is that the owner is a rich uncle with multiple properties making money and can absorb a $100,000 -$200,000 loss per year to offset some tax liability from his other profitable operations. That is the only way. Sacramento was fortunate to have such a person who was ambitious and opened up a huge club, got only 100 members, had only 30-50 players taking lessons, so he was losing a minimum of $150,000 a year, likely more, since he spent what looked like $500,000 or more initially refurbishing and equipping the gym. he was totally OK with losing that kind of money, then the county govt get real oppressive during the early months of Covid times and TOLD him and ORDERED him HOW to run his business, and placed restrictions on operations that guaranteed a $40,000 per month loss and frequently visited and harassed him. Dude had enough and shut down the club permanently.

THAT is the situation in USA in nearly every urban area. (you try to run a club in the country, you will not even get 20 people in the club, despite advertisements for free beer and live cheerleaders) Unless owner can absorb huge loss per month per year, there is zero chance any kind of proper TT club in majority of urban areas can be viable. The only ones staying in operation long have a special market where there are enough foreign kids taking lessons (foreign parents sending them) to make it work.

 
  • Sad
Reactions: Tony's Table Tennis
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,424
6,557
15,952
Read 3 reviews

I will support Tony in a few ways with facts. My invoice prices are up x%, I now have to pay around 7-10% on currency and bank fees each invoice. I have to pay 25% customs now on most of my orders. It doesn't matter WHAT the wholesale cost was or how much it went up, my cost of goods is what my retail prices were... no way to stay in business that way without raising prices. I am not BTY, whose hoards of buyers blindly buy expensive lie little sheep, like it, and be the fanboy on the internetz.

Manufacturers are passing on costs to wholesalers, who pass on costs to retailers, who now must pass on costs or stop operations. I am tempted to stop operations myself, I still help people, but it is no longer easy. No one in USA wants to pay $65 usd for a jersey, which is now my cost, no matter how damn good they look and it costs $20+ to letter them... no one wants that, so if I buy inventory, I may be stuck with it... stuck like chuck. you could go big, but in USA, you end up going broke. The USA market can realistically only have two outfits large enough to operate on large scale and actually hire employees and make container sized orders. Trying to go big in that situation is a waste of money.

We could extend that conversation to TT gyms in USA. In my city of Sacramento, USA, a 3 Million population area, there are ZERO full time conventional TT clubs. There are very good reasons for this. It is too expensive to lease an operate a space suitable in excess of the income from the number of members paying and kids taking lessons.

A suitable spot is 15,000 sq ft which in a bad part of the city is around 1USD per sq ft per month, plus utilities run 5-10k usd/mo. That is not considering the initial investment of outfitting the floor and lights and paint and minor improvements to make it playable... which would be a loan of 200k going skimpy. That means TT club owner has overhead of $25,000 usd a MONTH that is BEFORE any income. People here are NOT WILLING to pay more than $60 a month to play unlimited, or they do not show up. You could bring in high level coach and give him 1/2 the coaching fees (40usd for coach, 40usd for owner). You would need 200 members paying 60 usd/mo (12k) and 75 kids taking 1 lesson a week (12k) just to break even every month on the core overhead, which are not all the expenses. The clubs here before who tried to make it barely reached 100 members. The market here is not able to support the huge expenses it takes to run a TT club. That is why owners have tried and FAILED and lost money.

The only way a club survives is that the owner is a rich uncle with multiple properties making money and can absorb a $100,000 -$200,000 loss per year to offset some tax liability from his other profitable operations. That is the only way. Sacramento was fortunate to have such a person who was ambitious and opened up a huge club, got only 100 members, had only 30-50 players taking lessons, so he was losing a minimum of $150,000 a year, likely more, since he spent what looked like $500,000 or more initially refurbishing and equipping the gym. he was totally OK with losing that kind of money, then the county govt get real oppressive during the early months of Covid times and TOLD him and ORDERED him HOW to run his business, and placed restrictions on operations that guaranteed a $40,000 per month loss and frequently visited and harassed him. Dude had enough and shut down the club permanently.

THAT is the situation in USA in nearly every urban area. (you try to run a club in the country, you will not even get 20 people in the club, despite advertisements for free beer and live cheerleaders) Unless owner can absorb huge loss per month per year, there is zero chance any kind of proper TT club in majority of urban areas can be viable. The only ones staying in operation long have a special market where there are enough foreign kids taking lessons (foreign parents sending them) to make it work.

There is a lot of sad things about selling table tennis equipment.
But then people moan not enough is done about tt locally.
This feels like the same thing about TT clubs. You need the community to keep things alive!

But the same consumers who don't support local (and shop around for the cheapest on the internet), don't support to the local tt economy are also likely to be the first to moan.

So it becomes a negative butterfly effect. The less people who support, the more out priced the local dealer would be, and the less brand presence in the country = the less everything from that brand for the country.

Mean while consumers support dealers from other countries - that other country gets all the sales figures and get additional support from such brands.

I don't think consumers is even aware of the huge material shortage, the biggest i've seen in the past 10 years.
I had to pause one of my orders in May - there was not a single red rubber in MAX sponge that I could order - there was no stock!
And now, entry level blades are also out of stock.

And yeah, my previous "retail price with special" of 2019 is now pretty much more expensive than my new landed cost on many items.
And people think it is just year on year inflation. Such drastic jump in the past 2 years is slowly going to appear. I only just recently adjusted my retail price - first time in 3 years.

Anyways, resellers will need to find ways to survive and uphold quality control over delivery.
Else, the biggest will get bigger and everyone else will just disappear.
Which isn't great for consumers in the long picture

 
Last edited:
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,860
13,302
30,534
Read 27 reviews
The market price of Tennis balls, specifically those used for sanctioned matches (Penn and Wilson Extra duty) recently were approaching $5 USD a can (can of 3 balls).

I saw a local dept store (Target) show $2.49 a can for Penn Extra Duty match balls a month ago, which was 1/2 the market price. This was older stock (that was still fresh) that had not yet sold. So, of course I went to Target and promptly bought 12 cans. ( I was nice and left 12 cans still on the shelf)

I went back today and there was exactly ONE CAN of Penn on the shelf... however, there were 11 cans of Wilson Extra Duty (A better ball IMO), so I bought 10 cans and left a lone Soldier guarding the empty shelves.

This stuff is real. The market increases are real and some occasional lags in pricing to catchup price to market price are real. In largest markets with commodities, major users try to use futures contracts as a means to control risk, but it is just as risky if not more risky that trying to time the stock market.

Any joker who drinks the major media and university fed koolaide about business and economies can comment this and that about practical economics and the workings of an economy all they want - it is free speech, but be aware of who is saying what and what their practical knowledge and experience are..

Such jokers who NEVER RAN A BUSINESS are EXACTLY LIKE THE USATT 1000 NEWB ARMCHAIR EXPERTS trying to comment about TT business... they open mouth and insert foot. No, that isn't enough, so they jam that sucka all the way down so far that it comes out the other end.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
Well-Known Member
Sep 2011
12,860
13,302
30,534
Read 27 reviews
We talk about INFLATION... some right some wrong.

You get CONTINUED INFLATION from increasing the money supply in excess of the amount of existing goods/services. That is the only reason for year after year increases. Central banks control this, and often, it is fed by the nations' legislatures authorizing spending in excess of income, so the central bank must inflate the money supply to account for the new bonds and interest. In the USA, this is done by the FED making an open market purchase, and it is magnified by the inverse of the reserve ratio - which is how much banks are required to keep on hand as demand deposits to satisfy account owners demands to withdraw money from accounts. The big bank who got the FED's newly created money gets to keep 900 Billion of the newly created 1 Trillion USD. They can get 10% ROI on anything they do, so a year later, they made 90 Billion USD for the first to receive the money. No single entity gets 1 Trillion at one time, but you see how it works. Then this goes on and on - the 900 loaned out or spent goes back into banks and they use 810 billion for free that wasn't their money and so on.

Central banks try to keep the net increase somewhat reasonable, like 3 % on average, but they make mistakes in reading markets and knowing what is going on, so it can vary. What allows them to get away with increasing more is the gains in productivity/efficiency of business. That is a deflationary pressure that allws central banks to increase more and still achieve their target numbers.

You get TEMPORARY INFLATION from all kinds of reasons... sometimes it is real temporary and sometimes it is longer. Sometimes it happens from businesses getting too antsy, sometimes consumers to antsy, sometimes short term supply/demand, sometimes natural accident, sometimes it is energy/transportation cost rise due to something or a new reg. Often, it is government doing this. We see this with energy. USA government did many things to effect a greatly reduced oil extraction in 2020, OPEC refused to increase production, and some countries now are refusing Russian energy while OPEC production is not greatly increased. Fear of future shortages increase prices more until such a time as more practical measures are taken. (which will likely not be taken anytime soon) This is magnifying some other government created increases in prices, such as making artificial labor shortages (like fire anyone who did not get cobiddie jab) (like restrict business from operating in total or great part - restrict business to 10-50% capacity) (give handouts to motivate workers not to work) (make workplace conditions so they do not go back)

What we have in USA was a massive increase in money supply - over 40% in two years... that was magnified by the reserve ratio, then govt interventions/policies... so we got what we got - huge price increases. That would be expected given the increases in money supply and govt actions/inactions.
 
Top