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  1. igorponger is offline
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    #1

    Very clever business.

    VERY CLEVER BUSINESS.

    Do Manufacturers make some unadvertised "revision" to initial rubber formula ?
    Yes, we have now got some good evidences sustaining the many users' observations and suspicions. Most likely, manufacturers did exclude some specific additives from initial rubber formula on the intent to get rubber products to only last for a short time., Very clever business, indeed.



  2. lodro is offline
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    #2
    😁 Why not, it is a very common practice and has been around in many many products for decades.So why not with TT-rubbers.

    Take for example tires, they can be made to last just about forever - but of course with little grip. They are also of course made to last just a few
    kms for racing but give enormous grip.

    Some more examples (giving my age away here)

    Engine oil. BP long-life was sold and promised us we could skip one oil change . The consumer then found that he/she could skip
    much more and the oil stayed clear and slippery for very long.
    It was removed from the market 😁

    Then there were silk stockings that did not give any "runs" and lasted very long.
    Removed from the market 😁

    Denturists used to give their clients the option between porcelain teeth or plastic teeth.
    Porcelain teeth last much longer than the plastic ones so many denturists will have excuses
    to not sell them anymore so you grind your teeth down sooner and will need new ones.

    Back to rubbers.
    Many players who play ping pong socially and even some club players will purchase a ready made racket and play
    with it for years. They never clean the rubbers either . Because they adjust to this outfit and stick with it they can actually play very well.

    etc etc etc or blah blah blah 😁




  3. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #3
    It always makes me laugh when people think manufacturers “design” their products to last a certain amount of time. I’m not disagreeing that some manufacturers cheap out on how they produce their products, but that’s different from designing a product to break after a certain amount of usage, that would take a lot of money and effort to do, which is the opposite of what they want. The reality is manufacturers are always trying different ways to save a few bucks here and there, but every so often they mess up and the quality of product drops.

  4. lodro is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    DukeGaGa;370891
    It always makes me laugh when people think manufacturers “design” their products to last a certain amount of time. I’m not disagreeing that some manufacturers cheap out on how they produce their products, but that’s different from designing a product to break after a certain amount of usage, that would take a lot of money and effort to do, which is the opposite of what they want. The reality is manufacturers are always trying different ways to save a few bucks here and there, but every so often they mess up and the quality of product drops.


    It is always nice and refreshing to find a human being with faith in their fellow man and a believe in his/her "goodness"'.
    Then of course, greed is a very strong motivator, more , once we have a company the directors are legally committed to
    work towards maximum profit for their share holders.

    I do not go for conspiracy theories but sure have pretty much seen the best and worst.

    But as long as nobody convinces me that ( eg) Butterfly could indeed make a Dignics rubber last for a couple of years AND deliberately
    choose not to...............................i will give it the benefit of the doubt. ............................with some reservations 😂

  5. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    It always makes me laugh when people think manufacturers “design” their products to last a certain amount of time. I’m not disagreeing that some manufacturers cheap out on how they produce their products, but that’s different from designing a product to break after a certain amount of usage, that would take a lot of money and effort to do, which is the opposite of what they want. The reality is manufacturers are always trying different ways to save a few bucks here and there, but every so often they mess up and the quality of product drops.


    It is always nice and refreshing to find a human being with faith in their fellow man and a believe in his/her "goodness"'.
    Then of course, greed is a very strong motivator, more , once we have a company the directors are legally committed to
    work towards maximum profit for their share holders.

    I do not go for conspiracy theories but sure have pretty much seen the best and worst.

    But as long as nobody convinces me that ( eg) Butterfly could indeed make a Dignics rubber last for a couple of years AND deliberately
    choose not to...............................i will give it the benefit of the doubt. ............................with some reservations 😂

    Did you not read my whole post? Or did you not understand that “designing a product with a specific fail date” is a lot harder and costs way more than just “designing a product”. I never said Butterfly or any other company couldn’t design a product that lasts longer, I’m saying they are just designing a product that meets their performance goals, and has an acceptable lifespan. And if the lifespan is longer than what they expected or competitor’s product, then good, they might then decide to put that in the marketing material, or see whether they can cut costs somewhere because now they have a bigger margin of error to play with.

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 06-11-2022 at 03:51 AM.

  6. lodro is offline
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    #6
    Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    Did you not read my whole post? Or did you not understand that “designing a product with a specific fail date” is a lot harder and costs way more than just “designing a product”


    sounds like a lot of defensive Gaga to me , which is absurd considering that nobody is attacking your beliefs.

  7. aliastheaka is online now
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    #7
    Is that a Yinhe Asia 3 rubber? I wanted to buy one but maybe I will think twice about that.
    What did it really happen?

  8. lodro is offline
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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by aliastheaka
    Is that a Yinhe Asia 3 rubber? I wanted to buy one but maybe I will think twice about that.
    What did it really happen?

    somebody probably left it on a hot heater 😁😁😁


  9. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    Did you not read my whole post? Or did you not understand that “designing a product with a specific fail date” is a lot harder and costs way more than just “designing a product”


    sounds like a lot of defensive Gaga to me , which is absurd considering that nobody is attacking your beliefs.

    Sounds like someone don’t understand how the world works. If you think companies want to spend the extra time and money to design fail dates into their products, then the only name for you is conspiracy theorist. Again, if you can still think logically, if you have three options: 1. Design a product; 2. Spend extra time and money to design a product with a specific fail date; 3. Spend extra time and money to design a product that last forever. Which one would you choose? I know I’ll choose 1 because it saves me money and earns me more.


  10. lodro is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    Sounds like someone don’t understand how the world works. If you think companies want to spend the extra time and money to design fail dates into their products, then the only name for you is conspiracy theorist. Again, if you can still think logically, if you have three options: 1. Design a product; 2. Spend extra time and money to design a product with a specific fail date; 3. Spend extra time and money to design a product that last forever. Which one would you choose? I know I’ll choose 1 because it saves me money and earns me more.

    This is one of the most naive ways of looking at the business world I have come across for quite some time.
    Next thing you will want us to believe that all the big companies are actually doing everything simply to benfit
    us customers.

    Is it not from the USA first came the saying : "There is a sucker born every minute " ??????


    Wonder if you really ever had a true insight into how research and development works in an industry. I know you did not !!!
    Your simplistic 3 step program as mentioned above only exists inside your mind.
    Because your step 1 might already include ""planned obsolescence"" so no extra time is ever lost.


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    #11
    Duke look at the life times for incandescent bulbs over the years. At one point it got up to 10,000 and now it's down to 3000.
    IT may be very expensive to design failure rates to be high in a specific way but it can also triple your profit at the same time for decades.
    there is a documentary about it too

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  12. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    This is one of the most naive ways of looking at the business world I have come across for quite some time.
    Next thing you will want us to believe that all the big companies are actually doing everything simply to benfit
    us customers.

    Is it not from the USA first came the saying : "There is a sucker born every minute " ??????


    Wonder if you really ever had a true insight into how research and development works in an industry. I know you did not !!!
    Your simplistic 3 step program as mentioned above only exists inside your mind.
    Because your step 1 might already include ""planned obsolescence"" so no extra time is ever lost.

    Well, believe what you believe then. It seems like you don’t understand how designing works. But hey, if you think all those engineers are trying to screw with you , I’m fine with that.


  13. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by passifid
    Duke look at the life times for incandescent bulbs over the years. At one point it got up to 10,000 and now it's down to 3000.
    IT may be very expensive to design failure rates to be high in a specific way but it can also triple your profit at the same time for decades.
    there is a documentary about it too

    That’s a very bad example… please read my previous post. I said if a new product reached the performance goals, and the lifespan is acceptable, that’s it. If the lifespan is too long, then they will figure out ways to cut corners, which in most cases is using less quality materials. And in the case of light bulbs, they had ones that lasts about 10000 hours, so they figured that’s too long and they can cut corners, and 3000 hours is acceptable. But what they didn’t do is they were not designing a bulb that fails exactly after 3000 hours. No, they designed a bulb that is brighter or maybe different shape/color than before, and/or cheaper to make, and fails around 3000 hours of use. That means some will fail after 3100 hours, some will fail after 2900 hours , some bad one fails after 300 hours , some really good ones fails after 5000 hours. But the most of them is AROUND 3000 hours.

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 06-11-2022 at 03:00 PM.

  14. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #14
    this theory won't work for TT rubber.

    Do I make a rubber that will suite a hard hitter 100 hours,
    but then a light hitter can use it for 500 hours?

    or someone leaves it in the boot of the car, and the rubber is dead after 1 hour

    Its the same with car tyres, its not just the KM/Miles that count, but the condition or the road and drivers habits.
    It is a consumable at the end of the day - durability is dependent on the user, and with the heavy fees to ittf, end users are the ones that are fitting the bills.
    TTT

  15. vvk1 is offline
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    #15
    Tony's right. Also, considering that most players do not use sticky protective film on their rubbers when not playing, a very big factor in rubber degradation is oxidation. No need for TT equipment vendors to do anything ...

  16. lodro is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    Well, believe what you believe then. It seems like you don’t understand how designing works. But hey, if you think all those engineers are trying to screw with you , I’m fine with that.

    Believe ?
    It should be replaced by knowledge.
    and as far as engineers is concerned, frankly my dear.......I don't give a damn.
    I choose - I buy - I keep or throw away.

    looks like this is going to be a matter of agreeing to not agree......................no problem.
    Capitalism needs suckers


  17. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    Believe ?
    It should be replaced by knowledge.
    and as far as engineers is concerned, frankly my dear.......I don't give a damn.
    I choose - I buy - I keep or throw away.

    looks like this is going to be a matter of agreeing to not agree......................no problem.
    Capitalism needs suckers

    Well, the world is like this because people like you. Always trying to see something that isn't there, not everyone is out there to get you.

    And the simple fact is, this world runs on money, all products are there to bring the most profit to the manufacturer. So depending on the situation, they may last long, they may last short, but they won't last exactly xxx amount of days or whatever time unit you choose to use, because that's almost impossible to control.


  18. lodro is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    Well, the world is like this because people like you. Always trying to see something that isn't there, not everyone is out there to get you.

    And the simple fact is, this world runs on money, all products are there to bring the most profit to the manufacturer. So depending on the situation, they may last long, they may last short, but they won't last exactly xxx amount of days or whatever time unit you choose to use, because that's almost impossible to control.

    """""""""but they won't last exactly xxx amount of days or whatever time unit you choose to use, because that's almost impossible to control."""""""

    You are the only one who came up with this weird idea of manufacturing ( or not) products to last for an exact predetermined time.
    All other people who posted in this thread are simply of the opinion that manufacturers might deliberately make products that last for a shorter time so they could sell another product quicker.

    """"""""Well, the world is like this because people like you. Always trying to see something that isn't there, not everyone is out there to get you."""""""

    First up: """ I can't be gotten""".😁
    Second: The world is the way it is NOT because of people like myself but because of people like YOU who believe
    everything their parents, teachers , priests , presidents and of course marketing people tell them.

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  19. DukeGaGa is offline
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    """""""""but they won't last exactly xxx amount of days or whatever time unit you choose to use, because that's almost impossible to control."""""""

    You are the only one who came up with this weird idea of manufacturing ( or not) products to last for an exact predetermined time.
    All other people who posted in this thread are simply of the opinion that manufacturers might deliberately make products that last for a shorter time so they could sell another product quicker.

    """"""""Well, the world is like this because people like you. Always trying to see something that isn't there, not everyone is out there to get you."""""""

    First up: """ I can't be gotten""".😁
    Second: The world is the way it is NOT because of people like myself but because of people like YOU who believe
    everything their parents, teachers , priests , presidents and of course marketing people tell them.

    Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

  20. lodro is offline
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    Yeah, keep telling yourself that.

    No need, some people start thinking for themselves at an early age , my world view is over 50 years old.
    Of course, some people never develop their own thoughts, they keep regurgitating whatever has been rammed down their
    throats beginning in Kindergarten.


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