Long pips to Inverted rubber transition

Tony's Table Tennis said:

Hi there,
welcome to the forum.

If you want to have fun, of course change to anything you like.

Difficult to past judgement without a video, but based on how you started with a coach, and how choppers does require a good form of footwork, I would also like to suggest:

I think you do have some strengths in your current setup. So why don't you continue with the current setup and flip/twiddle your bat more?
This allows you to defend and attack, giving you a wider variety.

Another thing, if you are a chopper, you can also consider chopping with short pimples. This would also allow you to attack like an inverted if you are closer towards the table.

If you have experience with flipping/twiddle and using inverted on your BH, I do feel your would learn inverted both sides pretty quickly too.

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Thank you for your reply. It has given me a lot of clarity with my decision.

The game nowadays has become pretty fast and close to the table, with people looping a little less than they used to and going for speed more than spin. In such a scenario flipping becomes more about pre-shot instinct rather than a post-shot reflex, which is a bit of a disadvantage at the higher level. Sure I can beat ameteurs and low level intermediates with the range of shots I posses, but the higher ups with 3rd ball attack mindset become a challenge. I guess I will just work on my close to the table blocks for a while and improve form with my long pips.
Short pips, however, are a No-No since I find them really difficult to control after using an OX long pips for as long as I can remember.
All in all, your advice was helpful, thanks again. cheers!

Carly Siman said:

Divyajeet;371093
Hi,
I'm an intermediate level player who has been playing with long pips since I can remember holding my first racket. My coach handed it to me and I have been sticking with it since 2007. However, I have recently been working on my backhand top spins, smashes, counter and blocking with an inverted rubber and I feel really confident with that too. I often flip my long pips whenever I have to attack with my BH and it is now a reflex. I am now thinking of switching to an inverted rubber on my BH and becoming a completely offensive player which is pretty different from my older chopping style that I am accustomed to, because of the long pips. Does this sound like a wise decision or should I stick to my Long pips and the playing style my coach decided for me when I was 12 years old? I do have a little trouble picking up really spinny serves with an inverted rubber, but I think I can work on it. Also, how long do ya'll think this transition might take?


There are generally 3 types of long pips players
1. Close to the blockers who use frictionless type long pips such as Tibhar Grass DTec / GD Dragon Talon etc
2. Away from the table choppers who use rubbers like Feint Long 3
3. All round players who an all around game of chopping , blocking, hitting , even lobbing , using medium pips rubber like Yinhe 955, Nittaku Screw etc

Which type are you (or wanna be) ?
Are you a natural chopper on your backhand ? (if you are, this whole thread is sort of waste of time LOL)
All loopers secretly fantasize of being the GOAT Joo Sehyuk
And yes there are a few choppers who want to be Ma Long for all the wrong reasons (usually peer pressure & fear of ridicule)

Are you a serious competitive player or playing for fun ( & exercise) ? Every amateur player says they are competitive as long as they are winning or improving but starts using disclaimers like " I am only playing for fun & exercise " if they continue to stay at one level & never improve (in most cases they are choosing wrong rubbers & blades) . Which one are you ?

You cannot have it all . You cannot be Waldner & Joo Sehyuk & Jiang Jiliang all at the same time. ( I am not sure you are male or female, so substitute accordingly if you are a female).. Regardless I have never heard of chopper (male or female) in the past 23 years except may be Ravichandran in India . (I am aware of the the fact that lots of Indian female top players use at the table blocking type frictionless type LPs).
The concept of the now extinct species Indian chopper is almost as hilarious as an African (-born) chopper.
IMO you should stick to your current setup if you are mostly a chopper but you can try medium pips with thick sponge if you want to play an all around game.You can always twiddle if you want to use your inverted on your backhand in either case.
There may be a good reason why your coach put you on long pips

I do not know if you are using OX LPS or LPs with sponge. If you are not using OX that may be a huge problem if you are an intermediate player as you say. LP with sponge is only good if you are only playing against Pros or high level amateurs. But if you are using LP with sponge (even thinnest) , it is a huge liability because you just don't get much (back)spin reversal or variations (both built into the LP rubber by design & user controllable). Pro & high level amateur choppers need (thick) sponge because there is so much top spin coming from the boosted loops that the ball will shoot off the wood if they do not use sponge. The sponge helps long pips translate this heavy incoming top spin into heavy backspin (use do be super heavy backspin in 38 mm ball era) .
But at lower levels the sponge below the LP actually gives less control compared to OX LP.

Who knows may be you are of those rare exceptions who can be Norio Takashima combined with Hou Ying Chao and Ma Long but what is the probability of that ? Think about it before you listen to ridiculous advice like chopping with short pips or inverted or anti. ( I will write a separate posting about short pips choppers & a player's weakside & strong side rubbers when I get time) .


BTW I was only using Dtec , Feint Long 3 as an example. But they are actually low aspect ratio long pips TOTALLY useless in the 40+ plastic ball era as are all the long pipe on ITTF LARC. Stable high aspect ratio super long pips did not become available only recently from China & Indonesia but IMO this is what you should be using though I am sure ITTF hates these rubbers. Unfortunately there still is not a single super long pips rubber for chopping available for the 40+ ball era such as Feint Long 1 & Juic Leggy 1 were in the 38 ball era. The closest one is Magic 77 (available for like $9 on Ali Express) that I use myself now in all USATT sanctioned & unsanctioned tournaments in USA . Magic 77 ( I may be wrong but I think is made by Dawei (they make Saviga 77)) still does not have as much spin reversal in the 40+ era like Feint Long 1 did in 38 mm ball era but I guarantee you this one is far better than the crappy Feint Long 3 now. You should try it. The loopers in your club will get you banned from your club & if you are in Gujarat , they will have PM Modi serve an FIR on you & arrest you & have TTFI prosecute you.

There are two reasons for why I am absolutely sure using short pips (or double inverted or anti) for chopping or just blocking as a secondary weakside rubber is an extremely bad idea (Again I know there are very few exceptions). One is social & other is technical. I will post these in a separate post when I get time to write it.

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Thanks for your reply carly.
For starters, I am type-1, close to the table blocking, but I do go back for deeper chops when necessary. I'm fairly confident with my FH top spins, so the rallies are generally short when I attack. I am not a "natural" chopper, just something I have been doing for a long time. I prefer flipping and hitting with my BH in the first return itself. I also prefer returning serves with my inverted using BH flicks. Hence the confusion.

I am a male and I play at a fairly lower level in India with no ranking but I plan on going further (seriously) . I belong to a tier2 city in a developing country, ofcourse they all hate me for my pips. But it has never mattered to me what people think as long as I beat them. This decision is completely to better my overall game. I used to be a fat kid growing up, maybe agility was the reason my coach thought it good to give me long pips. (for reference, my old coach who gave me the pips is now a national level coach who coaches the best of the best in india) Anyway, I'm a lot more agile and in control of my weight now so aggresive play is not something I will shy away from.
I might just try using inverted for a couple weeks and see how it goes from there.
I will not use short pips or anti though, as I agree with you on that. I play with Grass DtecS OX and it gives me enough reversal and control.

I do appreciate your reply, although some people might not see the political humour you added as "humour" with the conditions prevailing in India, but since I'm a stand up comic, I appreciate the jabs! Cheers!

Lazer said:

Sure why not? I would get a second bat and dress it with inverted on both sides. Then you can switch back and forth. But remember if you compete, most players hate playing against long pips (at least where I’m at )
and it could give you an advantage.

Cheers
L-zr

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I will try inverted for a couple of weeks and see how it turns out. I'm an OX player, so inverted both sides increases the weight of the bat significanctly to tamper with my timing, but I can get used to that and 2 weeks is significant enough for me to try it out. and yes, the pips give me an advantage, but they hurt more since my natural instinct is to attack and I cant do that fast enough with long pips.
cheers!

Tony's Table Tennis said:

Do you play close to the table?

For short pips that you tried, what was the sponge thickness?
I find SP ox a lot easier to control than LP ox for example.

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Lycanthrope said:

I think this is the same question that I had when I want to change from Penhold to Shakehand. I have searched a lot to find out the answer. The hundreds of answers I have found are saying pretty much the same: If you want to be better, no. If you want to have fun, why not? I remember an answer from China is saying this: the players using long pips or Transitional Chinese Penhold should be able to reach ChinaTT rating 2500 as easily as Shakehand two-wing loop. If a player meets bottleneck before that rating, the problem is more likely on himself but not on the playing style.

I am not saying they won't be better if they change their playing styles. In fact, many of them are better since they changed from Penhold to Shakehand. But considering the effort they put on their training after the change, they can break through their bottleneck of their old playing style as well.

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Thanks for the response.
Guess if I'm serious about changing my style, I gotta put in the hours.
I'll make a decision soon.
Cheers!