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  1. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by PingBirdPong
    I can begin to imagine the pain in the shoulder after playing with a 44 degree BS H3🤣

    Commercial National BS is only up to 41
    I've seen 42 and 42.5, but those are custom.

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    #82
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    And?

    I don't know the hardness number of those rubbers, do you know where i can get those numbers of hardness of those mentioned rubbers so i can use the table?

    if still sealed, the back packaging would have
    if unsealed, the sponge would have it

    ie here

    TTT

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    #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    Commercial National BS is only up to 41
    I've seen 42 and 42.5, but those are custom.

    DHS has the Star series. Hardness can go up to 42.5.


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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto

    For hurricane 3 it is laser printed on the bottom of the sponge.

    What about Tenergy and Rakza 7 Soft, where they are printed?


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    #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    if still sealed, the back packaging would have
    if unsealed, the sponge would have it

    ie here

    I am asking because i don't have the packaging of them all, i looked at a package of Rakza 7 Soft, i didn't see anywhere written the hardness, i saw maybe some like this "B-77 Rakza 7 SOFT BLACK MAX", so is that 77 the hardness for example for a soft version?

    Also i had an old Tenergy 05/05FX rubbers that are dead, they are glued to a package paper i have by a coach, when i tried to remove it just half way to see at bottom back/read at least i didn't see hardness numbers, only thickness, and to my surprise both were 2.1mm, that is why i liked them a lot in the past, if they were 2.2mm or Max i might hate them, so, where i can see the hardness of those rubbers without buying them first to check out?


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    #86
    So, for softer type, should i buy for example H3NEO H37 thickness 2.1mm and boost it, or H38mm 2.15mm and boost it or H37 thickness 2.2mm and boost it?

  7. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #87
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    What about Tenergy and Rakza 7 Soft, where they are printed?

    on the product catalogue

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  8. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #88
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto
    So, for softer type, should i buy for example H3NEO H37 thickness 2.1mm and boost it, or H38mm 2.15mm and boost it or H37 thickness 2.2mm and boost it?

    boosting, is all individual preference
    is you using the same booster for all, then 37 will become the softest
    don't worry about the sponge thickness, doubt you playing in any ITTF tournament with racket control.
    and also your level is probably not high enough to even feel the difference between the 3 sponges.
    Buy what ever is in stock.

    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 06-25-2022 at 02:02 PM.
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    #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    on the product catalogue

    Product catalogue?


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    #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    boosting, is all individual preference
    is you using the same booster for all, then 37 will become the softest
    don't worry about the sponge thickness, doubt you playing in any ITTF tournament with racket control.
    and also your level is probably not high enough to even feel the difference between the 3 sponges.
    Buy what ever is in stock.

    All of them in stock
    I want something similar to what i mentioned, not just buy whatever.
    Definitely not high level and not in any ITTF tournament not even local tournaments, but that is not meaning i have to buy anything blindly, i already tested few and liked some and hated others, if i am zero level then i will like them all or hate them all without determination anyway.
    So 37 will be too much soft, then maybe i will go with 38 or 39, i will see how the rubber H39 boosted for me will be, also i am waiting the delivery my H40 Prov BS soon, but the problem is that i order it online from cheap stores, and they will have so slow shipping, all are available, the more i delay and the more late i will get, and i ask to see if some here know answers anyway to save time and search a bit.


  11. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #91
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    Product catalogue?

    yes, product catalogue.
    did you not bother go check?
    Butterfly advertises the T05 as 36 deg, while T05FX as 32 degrees if my memory serves me correct

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    #92
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    All of them in stock
    I want something similar to what i mentioned, not just buy whatever.
    Definitely not high level and not in any ITTF tournament not even local tournaments, but that is not meaning i have to buy anything blindly, i already tested few and liked some and hated others, if i am zero level then i will like them all or hate them all without determination anyway.
    So 37 will be too much soft, then maybe i will go with 38 or 39, i will see how the rubber H39 boosted for me will be, also i am waiting the delivery my H40 Prov BS soon, but the problem is that i order it online from cheap stores, and they will have so slow shipping, all are available, the more i delay and the more late i will get, and i ask to see if some here know answers anyway to save time and search a bit.

    I'm not a high level player, I can't tell the difference between using 2.1mm, 2.15mm when using it.

    In fact, pros use 2.1mm or 2.15mm based on the amount of booster they want to put on, so it doesn't go over the 4mm limit at racket control.
    So if you are neither, then maybe it is pointless for you to focus so much on the sponge size.

    Just focus on the degree, and then the next is your individual booster preference.
    I'm not sure what you like, no idea if 37 will be too soft for you.
    39 is too soft for me, I will get back to 41. That is mean, doesn't mean, what is good for me is good for you.

    TTT

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    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    yes, product catalogue.
    did you not bother go check?
    Butterfly advertises the T05 as 36 deg, while T05FX as 32 degrees if my memory serves me correct

    I needed your memory more than the catalogues, and i didn't know they have catalogues anyway, i didn't bother to have one, maybe the time to have it, but you saved me time anyway, thanks for your memory! 😁


  14. Kuba Hajto is offline
    says Equipment matters a lot to scrubs who can't make minor adjustments to their stroke.
     
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    #94
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    I needed your memory more than the catalogues, and i didn't know they have catalogues anyway, i didn't bother to have one, maybe the time to have it, but you saved me time anyway, thanks for your memory! 😁

    https://issuu.com/butterfly.tt/docs/..._24022020_-_en

    /devnull

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    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    I'm not a high level player, I can't tell the difference between using 2.1mm, 2.15mm when using it.

    In fact, pros use 2.1mm or 2.15mm based on the amount of booster they want to put on, so it doesn't go over the 4mm limit at racket control.
    So if you are neither, then maybe it is pointless for you to focus so much on the sponge size.

    Just focus on the degree, and then the next is your individual booster preference.
    I'm not sure what you like, no idea if 37 will be too soft for you.
    39 is too soft for me, I will get back to 41. That is mean, doesn't mean, what is good for me is good for you.

    I tried H39 2.15mm already unboosted, very nice, not soft that much, but slower than what i used before, and less tacky, so i feel like i have so mixed rubbers then, i really don't know which version of H3 i had before because i bought it from a coach cut already and he didn't know any details, and both rubbers acts different to my hands, now i will get the racket of H39 2.15mm boosted and see how that will perform in my hand, then also H40 2.1mm BS not sure to boost it or not, but the coach [another one] who will boost for me just said that all Chinese rubbers mainly DHS should be boosted, not sure if that is a fact or not, and funny is that he said all H3 rubbers are hard and you said it is soft, that is why someone like me get lost between many reviews and opinions.

    Now i am trying to decide between 37 or 38 or 39 for my BH, and you said that 37 is too soft, so i will go with 1-2 degree harder then, but if i go with 37 for example, will it be that soft even if not boosted? And how if compare it with let say 39 boosted then.


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    #96

    Perfect, Excellent, thank you very very much 😊👍🙏


  17. latej is offline
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    #97
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    How do you actually measure the top-sheet hardness ????
    By feel ???
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuba Hajto
    You can measure the rubbers hardness with durometer but you would have to shave the pimples.
    Now don't be rude, give Latej a chance to say his thing 😂
    but then again, "shaving pimples " sounds great, just say where and when 😁
    Yes, totally subjectively. By how the rubber grips the ball in slow spins, basically how I can loop those short backspin balls, where it is not possible to apply more force, because it is too short. As I mentioned, the B2 H39, for me subjectively it didn't sometimes get it over the net. I blamed it on the top-sheet. Was it "real", I don't know, it was real for me, punkt, basta. For me, on my level, it makes sense to try to feel the difference in top-sheets only in rubbers which are similar in sponge and tackiness. Comparing top-sheets of unrelated rubbers, that is spanish.

    Last Christmass I bought a Type O Durometer on Ali, so that I too have something under the Christmass tree. I planned to measure all the rubbers in my vicinity, but I soon realized the futility. I'll post couple of measurements now, but only because it is a prime example of something objective yet totally useless. As Kuba mentions, by measuring with it, I measure "something", which is neither just the top-sheet hardness, nor the sponge hardness, and it says very very little about how the rubber behaves.
    H3 prov BS H41 2.15 B 46-48
    H3Neo prov H37 2.1 R 42-44
    H3 comm OS H41 B 44
    H3 comm OS H37 R 40
    Yasaka Rakza Z B 44-45
    Yasaka Rakza X R 45-46
    Donic Bluegrip C1 B 49
    Donic Bluegrip C2 R 46
    Fr729 Battle II H39 B 43-44

    Well, an interesting thingee there nevertheless is the Rakza X. On paper it is supposed to be softer than Rakza Z. It is significantly bouncier, I tend to believe the sponge is a bit softer, so the top-sheet compensates (is a bit harder perhaps than RZ). It is high quality rubber, which I don't like anyway. I thought I will like it, and was trying to find the reason. It has lower throw than RZ, is faster, too fast for me, yet slower than R9, nice grippy top-sheet. Player from team produces nice rotations with it. Hmm, I bet some people really like it.

    Edit: The H3 comm rubbers were boosted/glued 3x, that adds to the result that they are quite softer than their prov counter-parts. Just in case you wondered.

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    Last edited by latej; 06-26-2022 at 08:20 AM.

  18. Kuba Hajto is offline
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    #98
    Welp you can split the rubber scraps into top sheet and sponge. Then you can measure things separately. It won't be that good though. When using durometer you should do multiple times, and I read that in this particular example the measurement should be from the center. Hagisv has compiled a list on ooak.
    /devnull

  19. ttarc is offline
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    #99
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Yes, totally subjectively. By how the rubber grips the ball in slow spins, basically how I can loop those short backspin balls, where it is not possible to apply more force, because it is too short. As I mentioned, the B2 H39, for me subjectively it didn't sometimes get it over the net. I blamed it on the top-sheet. Was it "real", I don't know, it was real for me, punkt, basta. For me, on my level, it makes sense to try to feel the difference in top-sheets only in rubbers which are similar in sponge and tackiness. Comparing top-sheets of unrelated rubbers, that is spanish.
    B2 has definitely a quite a low throw. If one manages to get racket/stroke path angle always 100% right for this rubber it can be more dangerous for the opponent than a H3 but if one deviates just a little bit from the ideal the ball goes either long or is stopped by the net.
    Last Christmass I bought a Type O Durometer on Ali, so that I too have something under the Christmass tree. I planned to measure all the rubbers in my vicinity, but I soon realized the futility. I'll post couple of measurements now, but only because it is a prime example of something objective yet totally useless. As Kuba mentions, by measuring with it, I measure "something", which is neither just the top-sheet hardness, nor the sponge hardness, and it says very very little about how the rubber behaves.
    H3 prov BS H41 2.15 B 46-48
    H3Neo prov H37 2.1 R 42-44
    H3 comm OS H41 B 44
    H3 comm OS H37 R 40
    Yasaka Rakza Z B 44-45
    Yasaka Rakza X R 45-46
    Donic Bluegrip C1 B 49
    Donic Bluegrip C2 R 46
    Fr729 Battle II H39 B 43-44
    ...

    That's interesting I just wanted to post my comparison table Not based on actual measurements but on the available data from manufacturers.
    Works quite well according to some thumb-ometer "measurements" when comparing rubbers that I had at hand.

    BTY 1) ESN DHS/729 2) 3)
    40 (e.g. Rakza 7 Soft, Evolution FX-P)
    32 (T05fx) 42 (Vega Europe, Aurus Soft, Evolution FX-S)
    43 35 (Skyline 3-60 35)
    45 (FastArc C-1) 36
    36 (T05)
    47 (Aurus, FastArc G-1, Vega Pro, MX-S 37
    38 (Sriver) 48 (Rasanter C48)
    49 38
    40 (Dignics 05) 50 (Rakza Z 47°-52° 4))
    51 39
    53 40
    44 (Dignics 09C) 54
    55 (Rakza Z Extra Hard 52°-57° 4)) 41

    1) BTY ESN conversion as Nittaku does it https://www.nittaku.com/wp-content/u...2b110bd600.pdf
    2) DHS uses Shore A as stated on the Hurricane 9 packaging
    3) 729 uses both Shore A and ESN hardness. ESN hardness e.g. used for commercial Battle 2 e.g. 47° and 49° or Visnatura, and Shore A for e.g. provincial B2
    4) https://www.yasakajp.com/goods/rub/

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    #100
    So from the table the coach was right, almost all DHS H3 rubbers are hard even for 37/38, no wonder why he suggested to boost DHS rubbers then.

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