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  1. harty is offline
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    #121
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    Harty, I'm getting a bit off-topic. You have a good offer for H3 Neo commercial H40 and H41 (I wouldn't mind non-Neo, but that is sold out). Anyway, the available thickness is 2.1, 2.15, 2.2. Question for me is, should I take 2.15 or 2.2. Don't get me wrong, I don't care much about the thickness, and difference at all. My reasoning is this: the 2.15 exists, so that when you boost, you'll still be officially inside the allowed total thickness. The 2.2, you probably might get over the allowed total thickness. In my case, regional czech (KP1, now KP2), nobody gives a s..., but I am after the quality. Can it be, that due to this "being officially OK", the 2.15 quality is a bit higher than 2.2, or is it non-sense, and the quality doesn't have anything to do with it?

    Attention! thickness measurement includes glue.
    I admit, I never measured it, even though I used a booster.
    Personally, I prefer a thickness of 2.1 mm.
    When China wakes up ... the goods will be in stock again ...😠


  2. latej is offline
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    #122
    Quote Originally Posted by harty
    Attention! thickness measurement includes glue.
    I admit, I never measured it, even though I used a booster.
    Personally, I prefer a thickness of 2.1 mm.
    When China wakes up ... the goods will be in stock again ...😠
    That's good.

    If you take 3 rubbers, which only vary in thickness (say H3 comm. H41 black, in 3 thicknesses, 2.1, 2.15, 2.2), is the quality of the rubbers always the same, independent on the thickness? Would you say the top-sheets look always the same?

    I know this is a strange question, the reasons are outlined in prev. message.

  3. harty is offline
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    #123
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    That's good.

    If you take 3 rubbers, which only vary in thickness (say H3 comm. H41 black, in 3 thicknesses, 2.1, 2.15, 2.2), is the quality of the rubbers always the same, independent on the thickness? Would you say the top-sheets look always the same?

    I know this is a strange question, the reasons are outlined in prev. message.

    Yes, the topsheet is the same, good quality. The difference is a bit between black and red, but it's a subjective feeling, it is generally said that a black topsheet is "softer".


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    #124
    And my attention!

    The new rubber just arrived and delivered to me today 1 hour ago or so, it is DHS H3 Prov NEO H40 2.1mm, i don't know how much i can trust the sellers and stores, but i will go with that, now i will boost it by a coach as i think it might be better that way than unboosted, when i go to the club soon i will take back the other racket where it has a boosted rubber and give it a try although two different rubbers and blades, but who knows, i am not that much difficult to adjust to the differences anyway, i used to play with 05/05FX/80/64FX/Rakza 9 and 7 soft, so i got used to many different rubbers and i have robots, and with playing or practice here and there i don't think i will see i huge difference between H39 2.15mm and H40 2.1mm.

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    #125
    Unfortunetly, i went yesterday to the clubs carrying my stuff such as the new DHS H3 BS and the Cypershape blade, and my other blade i gave for glue wasn't there because the coach [second one] wasn't there, and then i talked with the main superior coach and he mentioned few things, one of those things is that boosting will go away in several days or few weeks because it will evaporate so it needs to be reboosted all the time again and again, this is not good to me as i hate to keep returning the racket to them to re-boost it for me, in this case should i leave it unboosed or should i just boost and then let it finish and continue when the effect is gone!!!

    My friend who i used to play with has a last match with me, so i put all my skills and fight on that so she will travel and leave remembering it, i won with my second best blade that has the commercial standard H3 unboosted rubber on it, and i gave her my best racket, Long 5X but with almost or dead rubber, she played nicely with this over her blade anyway, but i didn't gave her any chance to overpower me, so the rubber served me ok, i really can't wait to try the other two including the Prov BS.




  6. harty is offline
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    #126
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    That's good.

    If you take 3 rubbers, which only vary in thickness (say H3 comm. H41 black, in 3 thicknesses, 2.1, 2.15, 2.2), is the quality of the rubbers always the same, independent on the thickness? Would you say the top-sheets look always the same?

    I know this is a strange question, the reasons are outlined in prev. message.

    the quality is the same, the thickness is different, but never exceeds 4 mm.

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    #127
    • 39 DHS scale is about as hard MX-D.

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    #128
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    That's good.

    If you take 3 rubbers, which only vary in thickness (say H3 comm. H41 black, in 3 thicknesses, 2.1, 2.15, 2.2), is the quality of the rubbers always the same, independent on the thickness? Would you say the top-sheets look always the same?

    I know this is a strange question, the reasons are outlined in prev. message.
    I can't see why the top sheets would be different. The TT companies pay for that particular top sheet to be on the LARC. However, if the sponges are made of the same material, the thicker sponges will be softer. This is another problem with the TT manufacturer's rating of rubbers. They never change the hardness rating as function of thickness.

  9. latej is offline
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    #129
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I can't see why the top sheets would be different. The TT companies pay for that particular top sheet to be on the LARC.
    In my experience, there are differences between top-sheets of H3 commercial and H3 provincial, speaking of hardnesses H39-H41. The commercial was comparatively more tacky, more glossy (reflecting light), and softer. I am not saying better. Also the durability of H3 provincial H41 was not as good as I expected/wished for. The differences were so clear to me, that I considered those as 2 different rubbers done in different factories. Obviously it doesn't have to be that way, it just looked that way to me. Moreover, there were, according my experience, differences in durability also in between H3 provincial H37/H38 and the other "standard" group H39-H41 of H3 provincial. What can I say, I don't have such a broad access as harty to more H3 rubbers. That's why I asked him, and I said about my question what I said beforehand. From my limited experience it seems there are real differences between batches. And I am open to anything, that's why I asked, also because I do consider using H3 commercial H41, at least off-season. Anyway, this all is some detailed blabla in a niche, which hardly anyone in europe is using, you need to be aware of it.

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    #130
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    In my experience, there are differences between top-sheets of H3 commercial and H3 provincial, speaking of hardnesses H39-H41.
    There should be any differences in the top sheet if they have there same number.

    The commercial was comparatively more tacky, more glossy (reflecting light), and softer. I am not saying better. Also the durability of H3 provincial H41 was not as good as I expected/wished for. The differences were so clear to me, that I considered those as 2 different
    rubbers done in different factories. Obviously it doesn't have to be that way, it just looked that way to me.
    Sometimes it is just quality control problems.

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  11. lodro is offline
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    #131
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    There should be any differences in the top sheet if they have there same number.


    Sometimes it is just quality control problems.

    little bit off-topic, sorry.
    I recently got another batch of rxton5 and complained to the seller about these new rubbers being different than the previous lot.
    Reasons for my complain was e.g that at the bottom of the rubber where the numbers letters and brand insignia is the "relief" was not as high as before.
    Also The rubbers on the new batch were not quite as sticky as on previous batch etc.

    The seller inquired with the manufacturer and their explanation was that this was normal and within the parameters of
    mass-production .No batch could be made exactly like the other.


  12. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #132
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    In my experience, there are differences between top-sheets of H3 commercial and H3 provincial, speaking of hardnesses H39-H41. The commercial was comparatively more tacky, more glossy (reflecting light), and softer. I am not saying better. Also the durability of H3 provincial H41 was not as good as I expected/wished for. The differences were so clear to me, that I considered those as 2 different rubbers done in different factories. Obviously it doesn't have to be that way, it just looked that way to me. Moreover, there were, according my experience, differences in durability also in between H3 provincial H37/H38 and the other "standard" group H39-H41 of H3 provincial. What can I say, I don't have such a broad access as harty to more H3 rubbers. That's why I asked him, and I said about my question what I said beforehand. From my limited experience it seems there are real differences between batches. And I am open to anything, that's why I asked, also because I do consider using H3 commercial H41, at least off-season. Anyway, this all is some detailed blabla in a niche, which hardly anyone in europe is using, you need to be aware of it.

    I've used a lot of H3 in my time as a player, still do as a coach.
    I used to change every month, now i'm doing it every year (or when I see fit, which ever comes first)

    I have also noticed the difference of commercial and provincial top sheet in terms of stickiness in my over 20 years experience of the rubber.

    I've used both H3 and H3 Neo and of 3 different sponge versions (other than prov/national)
    even used H2 before.

    I can't say for sure how and why for example commercial is more sticky than prov/national.
    Back in the day, the quality control was not as good and commericial really was terrible, so the stickiness factor of every H3 was not consistence, some would be super sticky and some world be normal sticky.

    When Neo came out, I notice it wasn't as super sticky. So I'm not sure if the additional step of factory boosting had anything to do with it.
    Since moving to national first, then later prov H3 Neo/ H3, they have not been super sticky as my earlier experience of those super sticky top sheets.
    National/prov are just higher quality sheets compared to commericial.

    According to regulations, the topsheet is the same.
    But I know pro players are able to custom select rubbers, not just sponge, but also in terms of topsheet.
    I'm not an equipment expert to know what is registered with ITTF - other than pip structure/sizes etc.
    What if the density of the pips for example is not being registered - that could give a much stiffer/softer touch by just modifying the pips for customs rubbers.

    I do recall seeing a video of some custom topsheets by CNT, just can't remember the complete details there, but the pip hardness was something I remembered.






    TTT

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    #133
    Someone knows what is the hardness of Dignics 09c on DHS’s scale ?

  14. ttarc is offline
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    #134
    Quote Originally Posted by davidzhang
    Someone knows what is the hardness of Dignics 09c on DHS’s scale ?
    Sponge hardness should be around 40.5° on DHS/Shore A scale but the top sheet is quite soft from what I know so the overall feeling will be softer ttps://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?27476-DHS-Hurricane-hardness&p=373785&viewfull=1#post373785

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