Hidden serve

Lazer said:

Seriously, rules that impossible to enforce are useless. The serve rules is one example. It would be better to back one step to.
1. Open hand so that the ball can not be spun with the hand.
2. Above table level.
3. Upward throw and the ball has to clearly be on the way down before hitting.
4. The ball has to be visible at time of throw, but not at the time of hitting the bat.
Thats pretty much all that’s necessary.

I.e. How the hell can a referee tell if the ball has been thrown at least 16cm, It’s ridiculous.

Another rule that needs to go is the one about boosting. I’m not a booster myself but it’s too cumbersome to check specially on an amateur level and the rules should be the same at all levels.

Cheers
L-zr

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Why do you not want to see the ball when it hits the blade ?

Lazer said:

Because it hard to see for a referee. Think of all the angles together with the movement. 15 cameras is not a practical option. A single human needs to be able to make the call.

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In many sports human decisions have been replaced by technology to the betterment of the sports.
The 15 cameras are very practical and easy to set up and even the software was on trial at the Singapore Diamond league it performed very well.
I remember the referee faulted Timo Boll on tossing the Ball not high enough but the software measured it at 16.5cm and legal..
Because I am so old, I can even remember the times when running races at the olympic games were timed by hand.
Maybe 10 timekeepers with stop watches sat on a rostrum, first starting the watches when the blue smoke came out of the starters gun and then stopped it when they saw the runners crossing the finish line...... Yupeeeee

Time moves on. Shall we try to stop it or go with it ??????

lodro said:

In many sports human decisions have been replaced by technology to the betterment of the sports.
The 15 cameras are very practical and easy to set up and even the software was on trial at the Singapore Diamond league it performed very well.
I remember the referee faulted Timo Boll on tossing the Ball not high enough but the software measured it at 16.5cm and legal..
Because I am so old, I can even remember the times when running races at the olympic games were timed by hand.
Maybe 10 timekeepers with stop watches sat on a rostrum, first starting the watches when the blue smoke came out of the starters gun and then stopped it when they saw the runners crossing the finish line...... Yupeeeee

Time moves on. Shall we try to stop it or go with it ??????

Click to expand...

lodro said:

In many sports human decisions have been replaced by technology to the betterment of the sports.
The 15 cameras are very practical and easy to set up and even the software was on trial at the Singapore Diamond league it performed very well.
I remember the referee faulted Timo Boll on tossing the Ball not high enough but the software measured it at 16.5cm and legal..
Because I am so old, I can even remember the times when running races at the olympic games were timed by hand.
Maybe 10 timekeepers with stop watches sat on a rostrum, first starting the watches when the blue smoke came out of the starters gun and then stopped it when they saw the runners crossing the finish line...... Yupeeeee

Time moves on. Shall we try to stop it or go with it ??????

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Lazer said:

No point in making it more complicated than necessary. Everything new is not better than everything old…

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generally speaking this might be a fair comment but in this specific case your "OLD" is not working.

Lazer said:

It is definitely working. What is not working is your 15 cameras. Just look at the comments in thread..

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So , I have just gone through the thread and you are the only one who moans about the 15 cameras.
The only other comment is from Tony from South Africa who pointed out that the event I mentioned was
not an ITTF event but a T2

Also, ask Calderano if he thinks the system works. In the current Budapest competition he got points taken away
for hiding the ball with his noggin and with his arm. From where the umpire sits there is absolutely no angle he could
possibly asses this, he/she must guess. A camera will give a clear picture from where the receiver stands, uses the programmed parameters and notifies the umpire.

Lazer said:

No no no, I’m sorry your being ridiculous. You are the one who wants 15 cameras, I want 1 human referee.

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Ridiculous ???
This is a rather harsh qualification.

Here is an old German saying : Was der Bauer nicht kennt - frisst er nicht. or : What the peasant does not know - he won't eat.

But at least we both like Dylan 😁

Tony's Table Tennis said:

its clear old people can't accept new concepts and maybe that is why ITTF is still using 1900 technology to umpire

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Horrible generalization !!!
In this thread I have very strongly supported the modern technology and I am most definitely OLD.
Unfortunately the clinging to existing methods, be they good or bad , is widespread even amongst young folks.

lodro said:

Horrible generalization !!!
In this thread I have very strongly supported the modern technology and I am most definitely OLD.
Unfortunately the clinging to existing methods, be they good or bad , is widespread even amongst young folks.

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Then clearly you need to make it to the decision table of ITTF umpires/referee's department.

Sports needs to evolve, but people still only want 1 umpire, and zero technology....
young people are all training or coaching, while the vets tend to be the umpires/referees, or the ones with voting powers.

PingBirdPong said:

If the Chinese government can recognize my face and track me with outdoor cameras then cameras can track how a ball is served.

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Well, that is only what you know.
Imagine what you don't know 🤣

IB66 said:

Years ago there used to be a service net call judge in Tennis, they would be sitting there with a hand touching the net cord and calling any serves that glanced the net. These judges are long gone!!! replaced by tech that goes straight to the umpire. Hawkeye is used for dodgy line calls, perhaps Hawkeye isn't fast enough for 'real time' line calls ? but if it was, ta ta line judges take a seat and pay to watch the matches!!!!
TT just lags behind under the lead of ITTF etc especially when it comes to the major championships etc

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agreed

let's all promote
the new technology.

Is there some kind of "players association". ???
Years ago in Formula 1 they started one and safety aspects got improved massively.
If the top players all got together and organize, things could improve.
This our game belongs to the players not some organizations dictating to the players.


And here is another example that shows how technology replaces human judgement and makes things fairer.

What is athletic starting blocks with sensors? It enables up to 10 lanes to be monitored simultaneously. The starting block sensors take in account the physiological response time, i.e. the time elapsed between the starting signal and the thrust of the athlete's foot against the starting blocks

lodro said:

Is there some kind of "players association". ???

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Yes, there is players association - it is becoming better now, with more and more active players being part of.
But at the end of the day, there is about 200 votes, and that is all the member countries in the world.
I'm not sure how many of these 200 voters actually play table tennis in some high level....
Few (decision makers) of the 200 that I know, are social players at most.

Nothing wrong with having an amateur making decisions for pros, if it is the right decision.

But just look at the new WTT camera angle... it is back, and I can tell you people are not making good decisions there.