How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

LDM7 · Nov 5, 2022

IB66 said:
Match from Thursday

Shaun’s ranking is about 2100, mine 1370

https://youtu.be/yxXDHSfp4cU

LOL ... GO IB66 💪

Kick his butt

make him pick up all the balls to tire him out 🤣

LDM7 · Nov 5, 2022

IB66 said:
Friday night match

Fred’s rating is 1800, I’ve played him twice before, lost both 3-0, lost 3-1 last night.

https://youtu.be/YDn6iP1_55c

Evening IB66,

I like your 3rd end mentality, i saw you thinking (looking up, head up) during the change-over, you competed at a couple of levels higher, perhaps you were better warmed up by then also idk

your body language engaged, service set-up, location & spin variety were superior than ends 1 & 2

IMO you changed the narrative by taking the initiative, less pat-a-caking (that's what der says i do) and made fred uncomfortable by attacking him & started moving him with your serves

all of your 9 serves during end 1 went long (and it was close) so you could've taken it home sans unforced errors

this is one reason to my different post exploring first game tactics (in particular serves where we have 100% control to how the point starts) ... how to use serves to find out the other's strengths & weaknesses

throughout your match, i particularly enjoyed seeing you keep at it even after you missed a FH loop long, you received the nxt long to your FH with beautiful spinny loops, often resulting a WINNER! (0:27, 2:48, 4:30, 5:50)

I do wish to point out many of fred's serves were not legal (0:35 & 1:20) in addition there were times IMO you weren't entirely set, if i am not mistaken (disregard my wife's opinion here) the rule says server must come to a complete pause before tossing ball, let drop at least six inches ...

finally would you consider BH top-spin earlier (mental?) during a rally, instead of pushing back & forth in succession e.g. 3:20 & 5:41 look so effortlessly & spinny & the point starting @ around 8:05 where you went as soon as you saw an opening was decisive, effective & making fred uncomfortable

it is my opinion when you play fred the way you played 3rd end, you have the tools to take him 3 - 0

GO IB66 💪

LDM7

LDM7 · Nov 5, 2022

Brs said:
This problem is very easy to fix. Prioritize spin. Instead of wanting to hit a winner past someone, want them to block your loops off the end over and over. Your forum motto says Spin Wins! It's true. You will develop good feeling faster. And once you become way too spinny for an opponent it's over for them, they have no chance or tactics that can defeat you.

Holy Shxt Bat-man ... I see the light

I will prioritize spin over ego

Der_Echte · Nov 5, 2022

Just to make sure everyone knows what Patty Cake or Pat a Cake is... basically patting each other's hands softly... and why I use that term where someone should be strongly attacking.

Der_Echte · Nov 5, 2022

Spin does win and personally, I like to spin first and ask questions later. Growing one's game to prioritize spin as a first response (when ball isn't high for a pick hit) is a good thing. Spin gives safety... also you learn touch as you grow.

NextLevel · Nov 5, 2022

Der_Echte said:
Spin does win and personally, I like to spin first and ask questions later. Growing one's game to prioritize spin as a first response (when ball isn't high for a pick hit) is a good thing. Spin gives safety... also you learn touch as you grow.

As you start older, it gets even more important. You can't time hits well enough to feel consistent - with spin, you have an easier way to calibrate your balls.

LDM7 · Nov 5, 2022

Der_Echte said:
Spin does win and personally, I like to spin first and ask questions later. Growing one's game to prioritize spin as a first response (when ball isn't high for a pick hit) is a good thing. Spin gives safety... also you learn touch as you grow.

so how can LDM7 get his topspin even more spinny ... tell me again der, say it again

IB66 · Nov 5, 2022

Fred, never learnt to play FH or BH loops or decent topspin’s , he was taught flat hit kills. Spin on his serves are ok, not real spinny though, does vary spin levels.

Shaun, plays inverted FH and LP BH, he plays in a group of players that use LP’s or MP’s , there’s 4 or 5 in the group, 3 pimple players, 1 of them used to play English National League. Out of the 3 Shaun is possibly the weakest of them!! BUT don’t quote me on that!!!
I think at start of 3rd end, 2nd point, I told my to ‘stop being scared’ of the BH plays he was making!!
As Der and LDM7 pointed out, too much pat a cake and not enough actually playing a stroke PROPERLY

NextLevel · Nov 5, 2022

IB66 said:
Fred, never learnt to play FH or BH loops or decent topspin’s , he was taught flat hit kills. Spin on his serves are ok, not real spinny though, does vary spin levels.

Shaun, plays inverted FH and LP BH, he plays in a group of players that use LP’s or MP’s , there’s 4 or 5 in the group, 3 pimple players, 1 of them used to play English National League. Out of the 3 Shaun is possibly the weakest of them!! BUT don’t quote me on that!!!
I think at start of 3rd end, 2nd point, I told my to ‘stop being scared’ of the BH plays he was making!!
As Der and LDM7 pointed out, too much pat a cake and not enough actually playing a stroke PROPERLY

Fred: That makes his game against heavy pushes very limited, there is not point pushing early and popping the ball up, wait as long as you can, chop the ball as deep as you can. He is a somewhat good player, but his deficiencies place him within your range. It is funny how matchups work, even with a 400 point gap, certain deficiencies/styles make one player playable and the other unplayable.

Shaun doesn't seem to be in your range at the moment but definitely, you could give him a better match by actually serving to and attacking the LP balls since you have strong serves. You could have given him straight backspin/nospin variations and let him return those. If he hits the backspin ball with LP, you can always loop or smash the return. If he hits the no spin ball, it will be pretty dead. And he will have his fair share of errors if the variation is good enough, he will miss some backspins into the net and some nospins off the table. Serving long to the pips until he pivots is fine though you have to be aware of the option and be ready if you do it at critical points. You could just serve short the forehand as well. Serves into the (short) forehand would benefit your game a lot, I don't see that many.

IB66 · Nov 5, 2022

Fred’s game is pretty limited, but I’ve seen him whip some good players!! If he’s on his game his flat hit FH and BH just wins points outright, especially if the ball isn’t deep enough. For whatever reason, as far as his Flat hit FH was concerned, he wasn’t ON his game. I haven’t seen him look that awkward on the FH side before.
Another player in our team defeated Fred 3 zip, Seb’s game is based around heavy spin pushes, long, short some spin variation and placement and then open up ‘when I feel brave enough’ quoting Serb there!! Which ties in with what NL was saying about deep chops etc.

In the match vs Shaun’s team, One of our players was a stand in, now he is an outdoor estate fella, hasn’t played many matches, hasn’t been coached and is totally in the dark regarding equipment, and what different rubbers do!!, he took a game off of Shaun as well, he lost 1st 2 ends badly then won the 3rd!! Pushed Shaun in the 4th. It was Shaun’s serves and FH attack that did the damage.
Afterwards John and myself mentioned the LP’s on the BH, he just looked at us blankly and commented that ‘I just played what came back at me’!!
It’s interesting that his lack of knowledge was a mental advantage, didn’t know what LP’s are about and didn’t care!!
A golfer once put a scenario to us-
A man is living alone on an island, the island has a golf course, he has clubs, balls etc and a rule book, plus a brief explanation regarding what a PAR, BIRDIE, BOGEY Etc are.
He plays everyday.
years later he is visited by some golfers, the 1st people he has seen for years. They play a round of golf and he plays 2 under par. The golfers are like ‘WOW, you are a great player!!’
He replies “I thought PAR is the number of shots you SHOULD be playing a hole in. that this is the norm!! That all golfers usually play to PAR!!!!!

Mental approach and attitude!!!!

Der_Echte · Nov 5, 2022

Littledragonman7 said:
so how can LDM7 get his topspin even more spinny ... tell me again der, say it again

Discover how to consistently stay relaxed, how to avoid tightening up before impact, how to use fingers at end of shots to help whip the bat, how to firm right at impact...

NextLevel · Nov 5, 2022

Der_Echte said:
Discover how to consistently stay relaxed, how to avoid tightening up before impact, how to use fingers at end of shots to help whip the bat, how to firm right at impact...

LDM7,

You have the right coach for this, it takes time, but be patient, and try to understand what he is telling you.

PS: If you try to crack a whip, the motion is similar.

pingpongpaddy · Nov 5, 2022

Littledragonman7 said:
are you out of Jameson 18 Yr?

if you PE me your address then i'll sent over a pint of the Iriish's finest 👍

can you clarify?

Der_Echte · Nov 6, 2022

I think he wants to send U sum firewater out of gratitude Paddy.

pingpongpaddy · Nov 6, 2022

Der_Echte said:
I think he wants to send U sum firewater out of gratitude Paddy.

suddenly shy and elusive.
nothing to worry about, i would say.

LDM7 · Nov 8, 2022

My 11/7/Monday night RR vs Kevin (3-2)

we played once before on Oct 24, lost 2-3 (i think 8-11 in the 5th), so i am encouraged by a different result tonight 👏

end of 5th game was cut off, continued onto a second mp4 ... i don't know why

thanks for pointing out a few areas of strengths to expand as well as a few opportunities to shine brighter 👍

LDM7

Der_Echte · Nov 8, 2022

Hi LDM7,

BH is both getting you into trouble and into the driver's seat.

Tactically, it isn't landing often enough and with enough quality to take over the point all the time. Strategically, it is important you attempt to open with the BH when the ball is there for it... even if you miss some balls in the league matches. They are not important enough to play all out tactical to win.

You tend to lean back when opening with the BH. Some of it is that you are too upright before impact. (came out of crouch early) Some of it is not perceiving when the ball bounces on your end, especially when the ball bounces closer to the endline. You have more trouble vs these in practice. More reps and seeing when ball will bounce will allow you to get down and up with the right timing and stance to make much higher percentage with more time.

It is important to attack the balls that should be attacked, even if your consistency is not 70-80- percent range yet... by the time you get there in practice, it takes a long time to get that number over 70 in league matches... so it makes sense to develop the strategic goal by practicing it now - which you are.

Sometimes, you reached way out in front with zero leverage and attempted your BH and you missed the shot on almost all of those.

You were forcing yourself to use your BH... I see your stance after serve or return was BH oriented with right foot in front... you even stepped to the right some to BH loop balls that came to the center T. Yes, you were dead set on employing that BH.

When you did have a decent stance and caught the ball in your strike zone, you had higher percentages (obviously) and when you strung together several of those in a row, your opponent seemed to not like that and lose the point or play weak on those. Your confidence also got up there and affected your opponent too.

You missed a few FH by not getting out of that BH stance in time... but over all, you were looking to open BH, then pivot and use that FH. You need to get higher percentage at it... but you strung together enough of those combinations to in certain parts of your games to ensure you kept the upper hand in the rally. Doing that has an effect on the opponent as the match wears on, so it is important to go for those shots (like you did). That kind of pressure works at your level now, and as you get better, it will work at the next level.

You tried (and missed) at a bunch of long serves, which is OK, because at some point, in league matches and casual matches you have to do that to train your brain an aggressive response to take over the point. You will get eaten up at higher levels not doing that, so what you are doing here is appropriate.

It is also OK to swing and miss or hit an edge with your FH loop vs a push 3rd ball when it comes (like you did at 7:25)... you will start landing those more often as your consistency in practice increases. Same story here, you should be attacking the balls that should be attacked, even if it is tactically hurting you right now, you are developing strategically and in so many months you get over the hump and it will also be advantageous tactically as well. When you start getting to that point, that is where you compete even better or go up a level... but then you face better players and you need more quality and under match conditions next level, you will not be as consistent... then you improve vs that level and so on goes the improvement cycle.

You have cycles like this and other ways to improve literally for the rest of your life if you seek to keep at it.

I thought you were gunna shout GENAU !!! after your finish at 2:13

I also saw a big improvement in BH blocking in league match conditions, your improvement in practice is starting to crack through on that one.

Wrighty67 · Nov 8, 2022

Littledragonman7 said:
My 11/7/Monday night RR vs Kevin (3-2)

we played once before on Oct 24, lost 2-3 (i think 8-11 in the 5th), so i am encouraged by a different result tonight 👏

end of 5th game was cut off, continued onto a second mp4 ... i don't know why

thanks for pointing out a few areas of strengths to expand as well as a few opportunities to shine brighter 👍

LDM7

Hey LDM - looking good in that match, much more poise and confidence.

Great to see you using that BH open up so much - the funny thing is that reading Der's comments he points out the exact same issue my coach has with my BH side - too upright and not low enough, as well as still moving when I try to hit the shot and hence moving backwards.

Serves looked good to me - you were taking more time and setting up carefully before serving.

On my side, I was playing the best team in our league last night but it was in a fairly small shed so no chance for a video. That may be a good thing however as all three opponents use pips (2 x long and 1 x short) - I struggled big time. Despite knowing what I should do vs these guys, and rehearsing it mentally, I was unable to actually carry it off and so found myself hitting float balls long or backspin balls into the net - I lost all three matches and took only one game.

I am determined not to be beaten mentally by pimples players so need more practice against them.

Keep fighting buddy ;-)

Brs · Nov 8, 2022

That was a fun and impressive match. Shame about the fuzzy focus, but still lots of good stuff.

Your backhand was solid playing a very bh-dominant style. You moved well, defense was good, attitude and body language very positive, forehand smash solid. Serve and receive gave you few problems. Overall a good performance.

Your forehand topspin was just okay. It suffered from you clearly wanting to play, and setting up for, all backhands, so that's not bad.

It was hard to see your serves but I think with small effort you could add a short or half long, low, completely dead serve to your opponent's forehand line. It's way more dangerous if you have a good, identical-looking backspin serve to pair with it. But that eats way more practice time and can wait. Even without a pair imo a short dead to the fh serve would make your primary long to bh serve more effective.

And you had many good steparounds to smash high balls. But sometimes you jumped around with both feet and others you kind of walked around. I think fewer of those fh smashes would have come back if you always jump around with both feet at once. Otherwise you can end up jammed and only halfway turned. That reduces your power and also cuts off some good angles to have s wide bh for your shot. Since you did it well half the time already that could be an easy fix.

NextLevel · Nov 8, 2022

LDM7,

Both you and your opponent are on a good path. There are lots of things one can point out, but as an adult learner, the fixes can take you in a lot of directions and I think it is best you just work with the philosophy your coach wants for you to make it all come together. For me, I often stand straight when playing backhands, but I keep my elbow to the side and finish my stroke forward, just like I am tossing a frisbee. I also some times do so straight punch-like topspin with a wrist cock (like Liam Pitchford showed in the video I shared) on the backswing but brush the ball. There are so many options on the backhand, it is up to you and your coach to work on any one and continue to improve it.

Good work overall - I will see when I finish the video whether there is anything special. I will say that you need to be more consistent about the body rotation on the forehand side and stop keeping your elbow so close to your body if you want to get more leverage into your forehand. But that can be compensated for with timing and is very common with adult learners.

How Did I Win or Lose a Match?

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads