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  1. Littledragonman7 is offline
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    #21
    heLL0 IB66

    I am looking into the OSAI, delighted to learn android version available

    Your later comment is an area I am focusing on, paying attention to what is giving the other trouble, movement, serve receives likes & dislikes (setup my opening) ... etc

    Another interesting comment (forgot who) is realizing my point losses derives from my own errors or forced by the other ...

    I have much to grow & learn in this area

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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Haraold
    is there a similiar App like OSAI for Android?

    i failed to find it when searching the play store as well, so i went for Stupa Analytics. Seems to have similar functionality, but i did not dive into it yet and i am only recording few matches, but i do record my training pretty often to see what needs to be changed still (stance and timing mostly)


  3. Gozo is offline
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    #23
    Littledragonman7;374591

    truth that Gozo

    btw, what area is your home club(s)?

    Kuala Lumpur - Wikipedia

    Last edited by Gozo; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:11 AM.

  4. Der_Echte is offline
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    #24
    One thing I emphasized with @Littledragonman7 last night at the Russian Church open play was that games can be won and lost on being ready to attack a predictable ball... and why we should be loose and not over-think.

    in the 5th in a doubles match with us leading 10-8, I asked Littledragonman7 to finish the match on an attack. I served dead/low short and got a long ball to his FH, he was tight, so he failed on that attack. Next serve, I got him another long ball, he had to move a little more to his FH, but he got there, was loose, his attack found the MIDDLE of opponent and game/match WON.

    Sometimes, actually very often, very simple things decide matches.

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    #25
    Litledragonman7 also found out that a small knee bend right at opponent's impact allows him to move easily... we did a drill where HE BH looped to my BH and he would finish the block, either with BH or FH, depending on if he was FH or BH attack happy.

    Turns out, if he bends knees and is in stance, he moves REAL WELL to his FH and finishes blocks with a punishing FH hit cross court on the move.

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  6. Der_Echte is offline
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    #26
    @Littledragon7 was SO CLOSE to defeating a stronger female player, her FH drives close to table are BRUTAL.

    It came down to what won him doubles...

    LD7 was executing some things that made this strong female player very uncomfortable... and got errors from her... he also got down and up on some balls both BH and FH heavy spin that troubled her...

    ... but LD7 also DECLINED TO ATTACK some very presentable heavy spin chances... then let her dictate the point and he lost those. This stuff went back and forth both ways - each player making the other tight and uncomfortable.

    ... at the end, LD7 was even leading and deal, but he passed on some attacking chances and she didn't. HE became uncomfortable and she was relaxed enough to be looking for chances to attack. LD7 on 3 consecutive points passed up chances (after capitalizing on a couple) which allowed her to dictate the points and it was game/match over late in 5th.

    If LD7 was able to stay loose and spin attach even one more ball, she would have played tight and lost.

    At the end of matches, whoever can NOT be tight and still attack first and well very often wins.

    This was true today and LD7 needs to experience this a few times to boost his determination and courage. He was TROUBLING her SO MUCH, but he didn't keep it up, she picked up on this and initiated her own attacking... you let her blast FH close to table and you gunna lose.

    LD7 MIGHT post some footage of this... it gotta be painful to him to not win, despite bossing a lot of the points, but it will be a good pain if he reads and watches the vids he took.

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  7. Draycott old man is offline
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    #27
    To me it's not about winning or losing!!! I have my own table at home and when I practice my service at home I'm relaxed with no pressure so my serving is excellent!!! But when I'm at my club I start to tense up and my service isn't as effective!!! But slowly I'm learning to relax and my whole game has improved!!!! A positive mindset and a relaxed body is best starting point to go on to improve your matchplay!!! I used to hate to win at all costs!! Like in most sports the top pros are all capable of brilliance!!! But top 5% they deal with pressure points at a different level!! Time and time again!!!! So many games are won with the mind!!! Winning is great!!!! But so is losing if you take something from it!!!

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    #28
    Courage is not the absence of fear ...

    rather despite the fear - one goes out and do it anyway ... Hoorah!

    I am working on this area, thank you Ali & Der

    My painstaking rr matches will be added after editing; seeking thy input on the good, the bad & the ugly

    I have been honing my pinga ponga skills (lessons) since Jan 2021

    I am slightly addicted to this game & I love it

    It can be sooo much fun

    ... and as I get better, I have more fun

    I cannot wait til' that day, when I look back at the pain & bs I am going through right now, realizing it is all worth it

    I cannot wait!


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    #29

    As an intermediate player myself, this topic is something I am very interested in and I have been exploring for some time now, from my perspective this requires careful analysis and is different against each opponent and adding to this is how strong are you mentally along with your skills and your ability to adjust your game as it progresses and even with all these you will require some amount of luck going your way

    The first thing I would do is to make it simple, assume that you and your opponent are at the same skill level, at the basic level the strategy is that you have a better chance of winning if
    - You play to your strengths
    - You make your opponent play strokes that he is not comfortable with

    In table tennis terms, your awareness of what is your playing style and your opponent playing style.

    Now how I am going to start the process of analysing, let us assume that I am a good blocker and like to win points by displacing my opponent, my opponent is a good topspin player on forehand but had a mediocre backhand, he has good movement though and relies on third ball attack and he also cannot hit hard topspin when the backspin is deep , low and long

    As per statistics the person attacking has a higher probability of winning the points.

    Before the match I do the following
    create some strategy on how I am going to approach the game
    I do short backspin serve and long deep backspin on his return or short backspin to not let him attack
    play to extremes so that even if he does do topspin make him move end to end
    give long backspin to his forehand and block to his backhand and pin him on that side
    when blocking I am going to vary speed (active , passive, chopblock)

    the risk I am going to take is that if he serves long I am taking a chance and going to play topspin.

    Next before the match visualise yourself doing these and be warmed up (played a bit) focussed and don't forget to setup your camera.

    This is the basic strategy and then I start exploring during the match to see what serves he is not comfortable with and try out a few strategies like making him take more risks (like going down the line by covering cross courts) or changing angles and minor things.

    After the match, run it through an analysis like stupa, osai or vinnr and see if there are any obvious things visible. While these tools are a step forward understand that they don't give you all the data like spin and speed which is essential to understand.

    There is also one exploratory step here after analysis that you should probably do with someone (this is based on a sports science research paper on table tennis. I am reading and will make a video on this as it is something that requires a bit of explanation)

    After this you have things to work on in your training and also create a new strategy for the next match and you keep repeating this cycle to get better understanding of analysis and also the game.

    There are a few research papers on this for table tennis which I am going through and creating video's , in case this is of interest subscribe to our channel as this is the next topic in the series Science based training for Table Tennis.






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  10. Littledragonman7 is offline
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7
    Courage is not the absence of fear ...

    Rather despite the fear - one goes out and do it anyway ... Hoorah!

    I am working on growing in-game courage to go for the shots that I have the skills to make, thank you Ali & Der

    My painstaking rr matches will be added after editing; seeking thy input on the good, the bad & the ugly

    I am LDM7, a USATT 1200 player (California)

    I have been working on my game since Jan 2021

    This is my first video (12:13) post of one of my RR matches losing 2 - 3

    Seeking feedback on 1 ~ 3 things I did to make the other uncomfortable or losing more points and 1 ~ 3 things I should have recognized & adjusted so I could have lost less points?

    Thank you for helping me improve!


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    Last edited by Littledragonman7; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:11 AM.

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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by palguay

    As an intermediate player myself, this topic is something I am very interested in and I have been exploring for some time now, from my perspective this requires careful analysis and is different against each opponent and adding to this is how strong are you mentally along with your skills and your ability to adjust your game as it progresses and even with all these you will require some amount of luck going your way

    The first thing I would do is to make it simple, assume that you and your opponent are at the same skill level, at the basic level the strategy is that you have a better chance of winning if
    - You play to your strengths
    - You make your opponent play strokes that he is not comfortable with

    In table tennis terms, your awareness of what is your playing style and your opponent playing style.

    Now how I am going to start the process of analysing, let us assume that I am a good blocker and like to win points by displacing my opponent, my opponent is a good topspin player on forehand but had a mediocre backhand, he has good movement though and relies on third ball attack and he also cannot hit hard topspin when the backspin is deep , low and long

    As per statistics the person attacking has a higher probability of winning the points.

    Before the match I do the following
    create some strategy on how I am going to approach the game
    I do short backspin serve and long deep backspin on his return or short backspin to not let him attack
    play to extremes so that even if he does do topspin make him move end to end
    give long backspin to his forehand and block to his backhand and pin him on that side
    when blocking I am going to vary speed (active , passive, chopblock)

    the risk I am going to take is that if he serves long I am taking a chance and going to play topspin.

    Next before the match visualise yourself doing these and be warmed up (played a bit) focussed and don't forget to setup your camera.

    This is the basic strategy and then I start exploring during the match to see what serves he is not comfortable with and try out a few strategies like making him take more risks (like going down the line by covering cross courts) or changing angles and minor things.

    After the match, run it through an analysis like stupa, osai or vinnr and see if there are any obvious things visible. While these tools are a step forward understand that they don't give you all the data like spin and speed which is essential to understand.

    There is also one exploratory step here after analysis that you should probably do with someone (this is based on a sports science research paper on table tennis. I am reading and will make a video on this as it is something that requires a bit of explanation)

    After this you have things to work on in your training and also create a new strategy for the next match and you keep repeating this cycle to get better understanding of analysis and also the game.

    There are a few research papers on this for table tennis which I am going through and creating video's , in case this is of interest subscribe to our channel as this is the next topic in the series Science based training for Table Tennis.





    Palguay,

    Thanks to your thoughtful input & your time

    May TT higher being bless you

    Have a nice day!


  12. Der_Echte is offline
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    #32
    LDM7, Just on game one some interesting stats you can get from watching the vid that will reveal a LOT of what is ACTUALLY happening. One would NEVER realize what is really going on until they see a vid of their match. When you look at what made you lose points, you can place them into categories. I do this only for your first game 1 and ONLY on the things that made you lose points. Why? At your level, the lion's share of points lost are from errors. It behooves you to see and realize WHAT and WHY you are losing points from errors. You can do this also from opponent perspective on what you did to make him or her lose points.

    I could break down the whole match, but the approach I show here, you could apply to the rest of match and glean useful information. Game one is more than enough to get you started down the road to correct some things.

    0:17 Some fat, old dude with coach written all over the back of his jersey obstructs the view of the camera and sits down next to an attractive young lady and strikes up a TT conversation. Doesn't even look like he is paying attention to the match (but he is) Good move. Wonder who that dude is. SOME of the forumers know this XXL large dude though. Goon Squad alert.

    I broke things down into some categories... most are kinda general, like "Attacked Serve lost point right away" but you might need to look why... eg, BH attack of serve - struck ball too far in front of strike zone... or ball came to middle - player attack off balance no leverage out of strike zone - fail EVEN WITHOUT the kind of detailed analysis as to WHY the shot failed, you can see trends of where points are lost. GIVEN THIS KNOWLEDGE, one can begin to reduce unforced errors and improve performance simply from being aware of where points are lost... and later WHY.

    ****** LOST POINTS ******

    - Serve receive - PUSH 2 points LOST
    - Serve receive - Attacked serve LOST the point immediately 5 POINTS LOST
    - Serve receive quality poor - opponent attacked and won point - 2 POINTS LOST
    - Opponent played better in rally - 1 POINT LOST
    - You served long and got MURDERED - 1 POINT LOST

    So...you can see obviously you lost 7 points DIRECTLY on your serve receive. Some of this was poor push (way too long a stroke and firm grip. Some was attacking ball out of strike zone/off balance. Some was you mis-read spin or when the ball was going to arrive to the strike zone at what speed, what spin, how much spin what vector and where exactly at what moment...everyone struggles on that.

    You lost a few points from poor pushes that made it too damn easy for opponent.

    So, it mostly came down to you having a crappy push for your level and making poor decisions to attack the serve. You were gunna lose the point on most of those anyway, since ur push isn't very good right now.

    You basically pulled out a Beretta 9MM, pointed it at your foot, and pulled the trigger... REPEATEDLY. Yes, this is a colorful way to express the American saying that you shot yourself in the foot a lot in game 1.

    Knowing this, you know what to do to reduce your unforced errors. STOP WILDLY ATTACKING SERVES WHILE OUT OF POSITION and learn how to push with quality and high percentage.

    Immediately, if you use only a TINY stroke, keep LOOSE grip, and impact the ball close the bounce, you will have a better push. Not perfect, but much better. You need to improve pushing. You should do push to push for 5 minutes EVERY TIME you play of goof off and focus on loose grip, tiny step to the bounce, and use only 1-2 inch stroke or zero and just take the ball off the bounce. Your push wil get a LOT better in a hurry doing that, then get progressively better with time.

    That is a sample of an approach to looking at your game vid and seeing what ACTUALLY happened, so you can zoom in on how to fix it and improve performance. Often, what a player THINKS is going on is NOT what is going on at all.



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    #33
    There are ALWAYS some major things going on that a player should be attentive too strategically and tactically.

    - Knowing how to make opponent uncomfortable
    - Knowing how to setup and execute easy high percentage high quality offense
    - Knowing how to reduce your own errors

    When you look at a match footage, you should look at these three areas and a LOT of things will jump out at you and choke you by the neck strong.

    It will provide you info, which leads to questions and answers and hopefully, down the line, better risk management, better execution, better offense. Being aware of these things in the course of a match, quickly analyzing what is going on, then making effective adjustments is known as tactical intelligence. it is big time real and applicable. Helps one be more effective in correcting things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7
    ...tell me a few things...

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    #34
    Ooh, I didn't know LDM7 has uploaded video here as well. 😆Thank you for granting me an opportunity to say a word here.

    The first two pushes are good try. What do we call it? Side Cut? This is a advanced skill, you will surely be able to do it better and better. What I really like is the push you did at 0:19. There is a clear weight transfer forward, you are using your body weight to push the ball. This is a symbol for a good push. You are not doing it every time, but you clearly can do it well every time. That push put the ball to a very uncomfortable place to your opponent and he returned a very low quality ball, you just didn't be ready to attack it and missed the opportunity.

    For this point, I will say:
    1, Knowing what is a good push;
    2, Being able to realize your last stroke is good or bad immediately;
    3, When you know your last stroke is very good, then get ready to attack, so you don't miss the chance.
    Last edited by Lycanthrope; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:05 AM.

  15. Gozo is offline
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Littledragonman7

    I am LDM7, a USATT 1200 player (California)

    I have been working on my game since Jan 2021

    This is my first video (12:13) post of one of my RR matches losing 2 - 3

    Seeking feedback on 1 ~ 3 things I did to make the other uncomfortable or losing more points and 1 ~ 3 things I should have recognized & adjusted so I could have lost less points?

    Thank you for helping me improve!


    I will not comment about you as Der et al already done that. I want to comment about your opponent ( the dude in orange t-shirt ).

    He attacks more and his attack are stable. He is more aggressive. He played well.

    Attack attack attack ( Taro! Taro! Taro! )

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    #36
    gL on your upcoming tourney Gozo

    I wish you are able to apply what you've been practicing & execute to the best of your ability

    Looking forward to viewing your video as well

    Take care, LDM7

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    #37
    Hi LDM7, great too see you posting some footage of you playing!!!

    I have watched the vid a few times now, and have a couple of comments that will hopefully be useful, mainly regarding serve tactics.

    Your opponents receive position, whilst not crowding the table was still close (ish), when he took ready position his bat looked like it was touching his end of the table, maybe even 1/4 to 1/2 of the bat over the table.
    You created a few good chances serving semi fast and almost long enough, and forced a few unforced errors with a couple of deeper serves. When I say almost long enough, and semi fast I think that there is some room for improvement, a quality long serve is going to land 100mm or closer to the end of the table, the ball Is going to land where his bat is touching the table taking time away from him if the serve is quick enough. So practice improving the quality, length and speed of your long serves.
    There were a couple of good fast long serves to his FH forcing errors😀
    There were a couple of good fast long serves to his middle forcing errors😀
    but there looked like a lot of serves were neither 1/2 long or fast long, sort of a comfortable length for him to return.

    His starting position enabled him to cover your short serves to FH pretty well, but I can’t remember seeing him play a FH flick, could be wrong, gonna have to watch the vid again!!! but nothing jumped out at me screaming ‘wow he has a good FH flick’, he did play a few nice BH flicks though!! So his return of short serves to his FH could be classed as pretty predictable. Predictability of a serve return is a major part of a great serve. If you know what the return of serve is going to be 8 out of 10 times then you are really in a great position to plan out the point.

    serves pushing him very short FH and long fast wide to BH would make him think about his starting position, making his regular starting position feel a little more uncomfortable , if he compensated by standing a little further away from the table because the fast long serves we’re forcing unforced errors or loose balls. Then the short serve to FH will make him feel slightly more rushed when standing a little further back.

    I’m no expert, but hopefully these sort of comments is gonna help!!

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    #38

    Hello IB66,

    Mate, thank you for taking the time to watch my video a few times!

    I recon his receiving position close to the table during our match

    What you saw is the best i can do at the moment

    I do not have supreme confidence serving my fast, deep, deads YET

    I will "practice improving the quality, length and speed of my long serves"

    And hopefully the next video, you will see a smidget of improvement!!!

    * * *

    "there looked like a lot of serves were neither 1/2 long or fast long, sort of a comfortable length for him to return"

    I see 👀 ... you got me again, spot on!

    I will work on the quality & placement of my "double bounce & 1/2 long's"

    I watched a video from Craig Bryant on how to improve the quality of serves since this recording of RR

    and i believe my serves has already improved some

    next video mate

    * * *
    "Predictability of a serve return is a major part of a great serve"

    That is interesting, Der_Echte talked to me about "predictability" also

    I'm going to have to ponder on this a bit more ...

    i.e. how to get back a "predictable ball"


    * * *

    "If you know what the return of serve is going to be 8 out of 10 times then you are really in a great position to plan out the point"

    are you talking about a set-up here IBB &/or anticipate the most likely ball return location?

    i can see how this buys me time, being ahead in the point already 👍

    P.S. i wrote down in my notebook that he does have a BH flip, FH - not so much (to my FH chances are ...)

    P.P.S. yet most importantly - i know now how to make him think twice about his return starting position & make him not comfortable (all the while making my short FH more effective 👏)

    * * *

    "I’m no expert, but hopefully these sort of comments is gonna help!!"

    i like how you balance area for improvements with commendations

    your feedback is EXACTLY WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR & has greased the gears in my head!!!

    Have a descent day IBB 🏓

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    #39
    Checkout MHTableTennis on YouTube, He does some great serve tutorials, one of which is “The most Effective Serve in Table Tennis” this will shed light on ‘predictability’ and how or what a ‘good’ serve actually is!!!

    Enjoy and be well LDM7 !!!

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    #40
    LDM7,

    A few technical skill areas to work on (that are costing you more than 1/2 of your points right now) are serve receive and underspin cut (push in USA Eng).

    Technical works with tactical decisions so much as and within one's technical level. Pushing to the middle is not so good if the push isn't too good.

    Here are some Eng sub vids where Samsung Life head coach Lee is training up a few amateur players in a series to get them a few levels up.

    First is on serve receive, second is on the underspin shot.

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