FH powerloop against underspin

Gozo Aruna · Jul 12, 2022

I know ERT does lurk here in this forum so I'll start a discussion here. It would be very nice if ERT could also participate in this discussion. The video above by Pingsunday showed a professional loop underspin ball a certain way.

1. I have seen Kim Taek Soo YT video teaching his amateur students to loop underspin creating a high loopy arc for that extra safety margin to cross the net. I, too was taught like this by my coach.
2. I thought that the high loopy method is the only way until last weekend, when my coach showed me the way as shown in the video above.
3. It does appear that these two FH loop against underspin are two distinct techniques. I asked on what occasion does one uses this over the other.
4. It appears that the high arch loop is more for close to table or half long type underspin or for those ball that due to timing problem it has dropped a lot.
5. The power loop type is for slightly higher ball or those you are in advantages position. Personally I am more comfortable to attack these power loop at the 5th or 7th ball ( less spin ). I am still not comfortable to attack these straight-on with power-loops at the 3rd ball.

megimr1976@gmail.com · Jul 12, 2022

I also saw it a few times. very helpful

I still thought the kill loop was to fight underspin, but it's not.

Lycanthrope · Jul 12, 2022

A former China provincial team coach told me before: 大力出奇迹, hitting the ball really hard will make miracles. Yes, that is what a high level professional coach told me how to deal with backspin.😂 The backspin from my friends and I were really nothing to him, he just slapped the ball onto the table and it bounced back onto our faces.

So, base on this theory, the only question is: are you able to hit the ball so hard and it still lands on table? If you can, then do it. If you can't, then do it in a safe way.

PingBirdPong · Jul 12, 2022

Lycanthrope said:
A former China provincial team coach told me before: 大力出奇迹, hitting the ball really hard will make miracles. Yes, that is what a high level professional coach told me how to deal with backspin.😂 The backspin from my friends and I were really nothing to him, he just slapped the ball onto the table and it bounced back onto our faces.

So, base on this theory, the only question is: are you able to hit the ball so hard and it still lands on table? If you can, then do it. If you can't, then do it in a safe way.

Basically what you said. 大力出奇迹 is right sometimes, but supposedly topspin against backspin is supposed to be mostly “摩擦” or “friction” .

Lycanthrope · Jul 12, 2022

PingBirdPong said:
Basically what you said. 大力出奇迹 is right sometimes, but supposedly topspin against backspin is supposed to be mostly “摩擦” or “friction” .

Yes. Basically what he meant is when hitting the ball really hard, because of the pressure on to the rubber, the friction between the ball and the rubber is stronger, so the spin I apply on the ball can overwrites the spin it had.

Anyway, the conversation was not conducted in a formal way. In a formal training, the coach would only say 'No more bullshit, keep training'. Feel free to criticize him if anyone have different opinion, I won't be responsible for what he said.😆

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 12, 2022

I actually don't enjoy these youtubers, who take other peoples video, and then add English subtitles or voice over and then to become so called "experts" in the field of TT and use it as they own content and increase traffic and possibly make money off these unethical actions.

I prefer those coaches who actually do they own videos, own demonstration and I actually hope more forum member can support legitimate content.
I do also hope these copy right violation youtubers do get fined, but yeah, that won't happen and more of them come out by the day or they just change names and start tomorrow again.

saw a Malong fan made video with Stiga's logo blured out actually an hour ago. Its so disguising, but seems like majority of people supports such actions and such channels.

Okay, i'm done

PingBirdPong · Jul 12, 2022

Gozo said:
I know ERT does lurk here in this forum so I'll start a discussion here. It would be very nice if ERT could also participate in this discussion. The video above by Pingsunday showed a professional loop underspin ball a certain way.

1. I have seen Kim Taek Soo YT video teaching his amateur students to loop underspin creating a high loopy arc for that extra safety margin to cross the net. I, too was taught like this by my coach.
2. I thought that the high loopy method is the only way until last weekend, when my coach showed me the way as shown in the video above.
3. It does appear that these two FH loop against underspin are two distinct techniques. I asked on what occasion does one uses this over the other.
4. It appears that the high arch loop is more for close to table or half long type underspin or for those ball that due to timing problem it has dropped a lot.
5. The power loop type is for slightly higher ball or those you are in advantages position. Personally I am more comfortable to attack these power loop at the 5th or 7th ball ( less spin ). I am still not comfortable to attack these straight-on with power-loops at the 3rd ball.

I’m going to call the stroke “power loop” from now on.

7sagittarius7 · Jul 12, 2022

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I actually don't enjoy these youtubers, who take other peoples video, and then add English subtitles or voice over and then to become so called "experts" in the field of TT and use it as they own content and increase traffic and possibly make money off these unethical actions.

I prefer those coaches who actually do they own videos, own demonstration and I actually hope more forum member can support legitimate content.
I do also hope these copy right violation youtubers do get fined, but yeah, that won't happen and more of them come out by the day or they just change names and start tomorrow again.

saw a Malong fan made video with Stiga's logo blured out actually an hour ago. Its so disguising, but seems like majority of people supports such actions and such channels.

Okay, i'm done

I completely agree with you in everything you wrote, but there is a possibility that he has permission from the author of the video. Because EmRatThich contacted me and asked for permission to put a part of my video from my YouTube channel in his video, so maybe he contacts everyone whose videos he uses.
If he does that and always contacts everyone whose videos he uses, it would probably be easier and faster for him to record the content himself, but you never know

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 12, 2022

7sagittarius7 said:
I completely agree with you in everything you wrote, but there is a possibility that he has permission from the author of the video. Because EmRatThich contacted me and asked for permission to put a part of my video from my YouTube channel in his video, so maybe he contacts everyone whose videos he uses.
If he does that and always contacts everyone whose videos he uses, it would probably be easier and faster for him to record the content himself, but you never know

There is always a right way to do everything.
I certainly don't see anything mentioned in his content that states otherwise.

And I truly wish for original content, and not just some "same video" used by every youtuber....
I mean, I saw this shared by Yan An and then by Stiga China...

jk1980 · Jul 12, 2022

Lycanthrope said:
So, base on this theory, the only question is: are you able to hit the ball so hard and it still lands on table? If you can, then do it. If you can't, then do it in a safe way.

That is the main fallacy of the video. Saying "99% of Beginners do it wrong" while showing a technique that required pretty advanced spin, power and technique is a oxymoron. That is like saying "99% of beginner soccer players do it wrong" and a video showing that you should do a bicycle kick instead of a header to score a goal.

I have viewed a fare share of ERT's videos and i have mixed feelings about them. Especially claiming to be a good coach and knowledgeable person without ever showing facts of him actually coaching somebody or winning something leaves a fishy taste.

Tony's Table Tennis · Jul 12, 2022

jk1980 said:
That is the main fallacy of the video. Saying "99% of Beginners do it wrong" while showing a technique that required pretty advanced spin, power and technique is a oxymoron. That is like saying "99% of beginner soccer players do it wrong" and a video showing that you should do a bicycle kick instead of a header to score a goal.

I have viewed a fare share of ERT's videos and i have mixed feelings about them. Especially claiming to be a good coach and knowledgeable person without ever showing facts of him actually coaching somebody or winning something leaves a fishy taste.

Clickbait to me is for views (and all those that is linked with views), not for educational purposes.

All due respect to all the youtubers out there.
As a coach, there is no time to play around on the computer and making videos if you are coaching full time.
And if you are a full time youtuber, you sure won't have the time to be a full time coach.

I call on ERT, SURF and all others - don't be shy. Lets see you in action for a change.

megimr1976@gmail.com · Jul 13, 2022

I was greatly helped by the explanation in this video. and have tried it and it works. I say thank you. regardless of whether or not some agree with the way that is conveyed from the video.

Gozo Aruna · Jul 13, 2022

[email protected] said:
I also saw it a few times. very helpful

I still thought the kill loop was to fight underspin, but it's not.

Can you elaborate on this? Why it is not?

Gozo Aruna · Jul 13, 2022

PingBirdPong said:
I’m going to call the stroke “power loop” from now on.

What term did you use prior to this?

megimr1976@gmail.com · Jul 13, 2022

Gozo said:
Can you elaborate on this? Why it is not?

Sorry, I am wrong, loop kill can certainly fight underspin

but i can't loop kill yet, the ball often goes out

I'm used to the topspin method

PingBirdPong · Jul 13, 2022

Gozo said:
What term did you use prior to this?

Forehand topspin😂

UpSideDownCarl · Jul 13, 2022

Tony's Table Tennis said:
I call on ERT, SURF and all others - don't be shy. Lets see you in action for a change.

Yep. It is interesting that, for as long as ERT has been making money off posting YouTube content, he has never shown himself playing or coaching and he has never shown any of his "students" and their skills or development.

[email protected] said:
I was greatly helped by the explanation in this video. and have tried it and it works. I say thank you. regardless of whether or not some agree with the way that is conveyed from the video.

It is true that this can happen. But if he can do what he is trying to teach, then why can't he just show it with him doing the technique or using one of the people he has trained?

It is honestly very odd that he has never showed himself, his skills, or the play of anyone he has trained. I, personally, can only think of one reason that would be.

taeny · Jul 13, 2022

Haha I was taught using the old 38mm ball going into 40mm back in 2000, so our training was focused on a more vertical or upwards motion against backspin.

I recently got back into TT and signed up to a coaching session, and it was eye opening. The technique shown is similar here where we are using a "power loop" to play against backspin.
The national player was showing us that the racket is doing all the work, what we need to work on is power. we need to relax the arm, use our torso and most importantly is not to play with a vertical angle but we are rolling over the ball. Also was shown to shorten the backswing and use your torso to go through the ball. It brought more power and stopped the backswing from biting the rubber.

He had a look at my rubbers (AK47 red on FH, and an old black Rakza 9 on BH) and was delicate in saying rubber doesn't matter, they all do the same thing. the more expensive ones (he was using D09C haha) just last longer. But when he was using my racket to show me, he would on purpose use the old Rakza side rather than the new AK47 (sniff sniff).

Gozo Aruna · Jul 13, 2022

taeny said:
Haha I was taught using the old 38mm ball going into 40mm back in 2000, so our training was focused on a more vertical or upwards motion against backspin.

I recently got back into TT and signed up to a coaching session, and it was eye opening. The technique shown is similar here where we are using a "power loop" to play against backspin.
The national player was showing us that the racket is doing all the work, what we need to work on is power. we need to relax the arm, use our torso and most importantly is not to play with a vertical angle but we are rolling over the ball. Also was shown to shorten the backswing and use your torso to go through the ball. It brought more power and stopped the backswing from biting the rubber.

He had a look at my rubbers (AK47 red on FH, and an old black Rakza 9 on BH) and was delicate in saying rubber doesn't matter, they all do the same thing. the more expensive ones (he was using D09C haha) just last longer. But when he was using my racket to show me, he would on purpose use the old Rakza side rather than the new AK47 (sniff sniff).

This is also what I am being taught last week during coaching session. The earlier session, my coach showed me the upward loop. Once I am able to loop it that way, he start to teach me this power-loop version.

However, one need to be in really good position to execute it properly. I would say it is a high risk, high return kind of stroke. You cannot be half-ass about it. Once you decide to go for it, you really need to go for it. Again I must stress that you need to prep well for this stroke. Your body positioning must be right.

taeny · Jul 13, 2022

That is true Gozo, but with training this new way until its in your muscle memory - i think its the way forward. the spin only loop just gives the higher levels more time to drive it back and youve not used your opportunity effectively to win the point, Its definately eye opening to learn from higher levels so we can reach their level.

FH powerloop against underspin

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