Dilemma with cost-benefit on European vs Chinese rubbers

I would say that I train at high performance, I practice around 3h30 to 5h a day, 6 days a week in a group of 4-8 people with the accompaniment of a coach.

So I have a serious dilemma, I'm currently using the Tibhar Evolution MXP 50 on the FH and Nittaku Fastarc G1 on BH, I've been using this setup since the beginning of April, I really like the rubbers, they fit my style of play well.

The MXP is already wearing out in the sweet spot but nothing too much. Fastarc is still good. I can send pictures of the wear later.

The problem would be the price, for those of you who earn in dollars or euros, this pair is relatively cheap, but here the money is in BRL, I would spend around 500BRL buying this pair again. Don't do conversion, think you would spend 500 euros or dollars for a pair. I don't have the best financial condition so I paid the pair on 100BRL once a month for 5 months.

Now this expense starts really affects me considering that I have to participate in some tournaments on the national circuit, which are always trips away.

So I'm thinking about buying a DHS Hurricane 8 for the FH and DHS GoldArc 5 on BH, it would cost around 220BRL, which is WAY cheaper for me. The problem here is whether the quality would last for a while, something like 5 months.

My experience on chinese rubbers are a DHS Skyline 2 NEO and DHS Hurricane 3, the Skyline opened a big bubble in the sweet spot separating topsheet from sponge, same on the top edges after two months of use. I used the Hurricane about two months and i not seen nothing at all, just the color worn a little, and the reduce of the tackiness but not too much.

I like the characteristic of Chinese rubbers, because I like forehand and it's my best stroke, so make strength to have a strong ball is not a problem and tackiness also helps me with a lot of effect. The problem is on quality control.

So, finaly: My coach has several contacts with friends and athletes, etc. And suggested that he look for good used rubbers, for a price that would be nice. But I'm afraid they also last even less than a Chinese one.

Looking for advices on this situation, chinese rubbers or used good esn rubbers? (most Tibhar and Joola ones).
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2021
1,956
347
2,319
If you want to save money, Chinese rubbers are an excellent choice. You can find rubbers that near the quality of your ESN rubbers, but at significantly lower price.

You could even use the Chinese rubbers for general practice, while switching back to the ESN rubbers 2 weeks before a big tournament or whatever. Depending on the rubber, you wouldn't find a big need for changing stroke.

For example, try Big Dipper ($14 on Aliexpress) on FH and AK47 Red (13$ on Aliexpress) for BH. You will save a lot of money and get very good practice in without wearing out your more expensive rubber.

Personally I've never seen any quality issues with these rubbers, but they are really cheap anyways.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tabletennisdaily1
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,305
Read 3 reviews
lasting 5 months means you actually getting a lot of life out of your rubber.

For training purposes, and to reuse the rubber, I suggest to turn the rubbers around.
I can't find a photo, but it is basically taking your rubbers off, glue back the rubber but put the round bit by your handle, while the logo is at the tip of your blade.
cut off the writing/label part, and glue back those pieces to your handle part.

This part is very popular back in speed glue days, and giving you a fresher sweet spot.

Don't bother about those cheap Chinese rubbers named above, they won't even last you a month of hardcore intensive training.
And don't keep changing rubbers (like Big Dipper to MXP and to Big Dipper again), thats not how training works. In fact that is insanity to say the least.

Junior boys around me change non Chinese rubbers every 1 to 2 months.
Junior girls around 3 months.
So 5 months is a lot of life. TT is an expensive sport for players that training 30+ hours a week, there is no short cut, other than the one I have listed above. Maybe give you 30~50% extra life.

No one really uses hybrid Chinese rubbers on my side of the world.
Its either H3 (FH) or H8-80 (BH) or Butterfly/ESN
Chinese rubbers life span is around half of non Chinese. So half the price may equal you spending the same over the same period (infact Chinese is more, as we use provincial versions min, so that works out more expensive than Butterfly in the same period)

and yes, bubbling is common. More due to boosting or hard hitting.
 
Last edited:
says Rozena! You complete me.
says Rozena! You complete me.
Well-Known Member
Mar 2021
2,340
2,318
5,377
lasting 5 months means you actually getting a lot of life out of your rubber.

For training purposes, and to reuse the rubber, I suggest to turn the rubbers around.
I can't find a photo, but it is basically taking your rubbers off, glue back the rubber but put the round bit by your handle, while the logo is at the tip of your blade.
cut off the writing/label part, and glue back those pieces to your handle part.

This part is very popular back in speed glue days, and giving you a fresher sweet spot.

Don't bother about those cheap Chinese rubbers named above, they won't even last you a month of hardcore intensive training.
And don't keep changing rubbers (like Big Dipper to MXP and to Big Dipper again), thats not how training works. In fact that is insanity to say the least.

Junior boys around me change non Chinese rubbers every 1 to 2 months.
Junior girls around 3 months.
So 5 months is a lot of life. TT is an expensive sport for players that training 30+ hours a week, there is no short cut, other than the one I have listed above. Maybe give you 30~50% extra life.
Superb idea Tony. You are the best. I would never have thought about this money saving tips if not for you. Reorientation the rubber. Brilliant idea! 😍

 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony's Table Tennis
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,305
Read 3 reviews
Superb idea Tony. You are the best. I would never have thought about this money saving tips if not for you. Reorientation the rubber. Brilliant idea! 😍


It's not really my idea, been around before I was born.
Some one more clever than me invented it, not actually sure when or who started it.

But it is common in speed glue days where life span of rubbers was around 2 weeks....

Other trick to have for serious players (who train 30 hours+ a week, and with tournaments):
- every time there is a tournament, to use fresh rubbers. Glue up 3 to 5 days before the tournament. remove the rubber after the tournament and put back your previous training rubbers
- can do the same maybe for another tournament (if it isn't too far away)
- then this tournament rubber becomes "training" rubber

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2021
1,956
347
2,319
I don't understand your suggestion. When you cut and glue a rubber onto a blade, one side is flat and the opposite side is round.

You are suggesting re-orienting the rubber so that the rounded edge side is glued near the handle, and the flat side is sticking out over the head of the blade? Am I understanding that idea right?

That sounds really extreme. Personally, I wouldn't want to show up to the club with an upside down rubber on my blade.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2021
1,956
347
2,319
Well if its about economics, I would go back to my original recommendation. I think Chinese rubber is an excellent substitute, especially just for training.

I often recommend Chinese rubbers for guys who want a cheaper option. I gave a guy AK47 to switch from Tenergy 05 which was getting somewhat worn, and it works very well for him. I would say just try it with nothing to lose, its only less than $30 for a new pair of rubbers. I would be very very surprised if you couldn't play well with it in practice or even in games.

If you were nearby me, I would offer to just buy the pair for you. If you are unsatisfied with it, just give it back to me at no cost to you. If you like it, just pay me back.
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2022
187
82
340
lasting 5 months means you actually getting a lot of life out of your rubber.

For training purposes, and to reuse the rubber, I suggest to turn the rubbers around.
I can't find a photo, but it is basically taking your rubbers off, glue back the rubber but put the round bit by your handle, while the logo is at the tip of your blade.
cut off the writing/label part, and glue back those pieces to your handle part.

This part is very popular back in speed glue days, and giving you a fresher sweet spot.

Don't bother about those cheap Chinese rubbers named above, they won't even last you a month of hardcore intensive training.
And don't keep changing rubbers (like Big Dipper to MXP and to Big Dipper again), thats not how training works. In fact that is insanity to say the least.

Junior boys around me change non Chinese rubbers every 1 to 2 months.
Junior girls around 3 months.
So 5 months is a lot of life. TT is an expensive sport for players that training 30+ hours a week, there is no short cut, other than the one I have listed above. Maybe give you 30~50% extra life.

No one really uses hybrid Chinese rubbers on my side of the world.
Its either H3 (FH) or H8-80 (BH) or Butterfly/ESN
Chinese rubbers life span is around half of non Chinese. So half the price may equal you spending the same over the same period (infact Chinese is more, as we use provincial versions min, so that works out more expensive than Butterfly in the same period)

and yes, bubbling is common. More due to boosting or hard hitting.

I disagree. Cheap chinese rubbers, cheap chinese hybrid rubbers, and cheap chinese tension rubbers last as long as you would expect they last in each category. Some last a bit longer, some a bit shorter, but overall time and hits affects even the most expensive of rubbers. If you are training hardcore and need fresh rubber every month, trying a cheap option and seeing if it can satisfy your needs is worthwhile, until you get sponsored by a brand.

Personal experience: My cheap chinese hybrid has 90% speed and 80% spin after 6 months, 10-15hr/week with extensive multiball drilling. The topsheet is worn and needs replacement, but the speed is still there. Hurricane commercial topsheet lasts about the same, but of course it needs reboosting to keep in top shape. The Tenergy 05 I once used for a similar time period suffered the fate of all tensor/tensioned rubbers and slowly dies in the speed department (topsheet grip still okay though), needing replacement. Of course, these were extreme cases, I should replace at about 3 months for my situation.

Also, just a personal opinion: provincial DHS is not worth the extra cost. Prov and comm are the same, just different manufacturing tolerances. Just to be personally sure, I tested prov and comm H3 with same booster and blade, and found that they are basically the same.

 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Nov 2019
487
359
1,602
Read 1 reviews
I don't understand your suggestion. When you cut and glue a rubber onto a blade, one side is flat and the opposite side is round.You are suggesting re-orienting the rubber so that the rounded edge side is glued near the handle, and the flat side is sticking out over the head of the blade? Am I understanding that idea right?That sounds really extreme. Personally, I wouldn't want to show up to the club with an upside down rubber on my blade.

recyclingjpg%20jpg.jpeg
Hitomi Sato does this ;)Can be found in Adam Bobrows video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGrxhRU8CvY at around 2:28

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Nov 2019
487
359
1,602
Read 1 reviews

I disagree. Cheap chinese rubbers, cheap chinese hybrid rubbers, and cheap chinese tension rubbers last as long as you would expect they last in each category. Some last a bit longer, some a bit shorter, but overall time and hits affects even the most expensive of rubbers. If you are training hardcore and need fresh rubber every month, trying a cheap option and seeing if it can satisfy your needs is worthwhile, until you get sponsored by a brand.

Personal experience: My cheap chinese hybrid has 90% speed and 80% spin after 6 months, 10-15hr/week with extensive multiball drilling. The topsheet is worn and needs replacement, but the speed is still there. Hurricane commercial topsheet lasts about the same, but of course it needs reboosting to keep in top shape. The Tenergy 05 I once used for a similar time period suffered the fate of all tensor/tensioned rubbers and slowly dies in the speed department (topsheet grip still okay though), needing replacement. Of course, these were extreme cases, I should replace at about 3 months for my situation.

Also, just a personal opinion: provincial DHS is not worth the extra cost. Prov and comm are the same, just different manufacturing tolerances. Just to be personally sure, I tested prov and comm H3 with same booster and blade, and found that they are basically the same.

Yep. Especially for training I don't see a reason to use something more expensive than H3 (Neo) commercial except if you have to use blue sponge or got someone who's sponsoring you.
Durability is way better than ESN. The last ESN >backhand< rubbers I tested lasted maybe two month (V>11, V>15, BlueStorm Z2). Springiness/catapult/speed can be restored with boosters but not topsheet grip. My current H8-80 37 is now in use for over five month and still has enough topsheet grip. Wouldn't use it for tournaments but still OK for training.
BTW: I've yet to see a bubbling H3. Maybe I don't boost as heavily as others do or if I was just lucky.

 
BTW: I've yet to see a bubbling H3. Maybe I don't boost as heavily as others do or if I was just lucky.

If you brush the ball well, it's going to bubble pretty soon (especially Blue sponged H3s). My friend has pretty good FH top spin and his commercial H3 bubbled in a couple of weeks.

Yes, DHS quality control may suck for commercial versions, but IMO on pretty high level Provincial Orange sponged H3s don't last more than 2 months of proper training & boosting.

And that's quite allright, since some ESN rubbers lose their speed & topsheet grippiness even faster.
I personally love Chinese tacky rubbers and use either provincial or commercial versions of H3 on the FH side with 1-2 layers of falco or seamoon.

From the interview of Russian top players (who btw won EU doubles championships):
- they use Donic rubbers exclusively, since they are sponsored
- they change the rubber after 1 week of training
- they boost their rubbers
- they used to use Butterfly rubbers, they last may be 1,5-2 times more than Donic rubbers

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Sep 2013
7,261
6,232
15,305
Read 3 reviews
thanks for the video ttarc, I don't have much time to search. So glad people can now see.

I also don't have time to reply to each person, so will reply in a group here.

1) you don't change rubbers. Have never heard of training with a cheap brand and then going to a tournament with your main brand.... this is actually a joke
Now I'm in semi-pro space and assuming OP is the same
It is insanity to be changing equipment like that

2) cheap chinese rubbers (which I sell a lot of in South Africa), is inconsistent for semi-pro. Not even these companies own sponsored chinese national players use them. Not even provincial. Just like even Butterfly sponsored Chinese players, still will get a special contractor that allows them to use DHS on FH and same with DHS sponsored player allowing the player to use a non DHS rubber on BH.
For the ones that want to use cheap hybrids, and can use them for 6 months.... I'm talking about DHS rubber to be change every 2 to 4 weeks.... your rubber can last you 6 months?

3) recycling the rubber is not a problem. It is done a lot, especially for players that don't have a good financial background. If you are in a semi-pro environment, you not in a club, you are in a team. Unless you have some bullying going on, teammates won't laugh at you.
I mean, 1 x DHS last you 2 to 4 weeks, you need a good 20 sheets min a year and that is only for 1 blade. Most players have 2 to 3 setups. So lets say 50 sheets a year. Then you need another 30 sheets of Butterfly. Not everyone can buy 80 sheets per year. We haven't even worked out the blade costs, glue costs, booster cost etc etc.
This figure is more for males, the female teams I am with, the rubbers obviously last longer. But I do have a LP hitter that breaks her pips around 2 to 4 weeks, so she also needs min 12 sheets a year for 1 setup.
 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2021
1,956
347
2,319

recyclingjpg%20jpg.jpeg
Hitomi Sato does this ;)Can be found in Adam Bobrows video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGrxhRU8CvY at around 2:28

Wow this is so strange. Why would a top level pro like Hitomi Sato need to recycle her old rubbers? Doesn't the Japanese National team provide for her equipment? I'm pretty sure she is on a private team as well.

 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2022
187
82
340
2) cheap chinese rubbers (which I sell a lot of in South Africa), is inconsistent for semi-pro. Not even these companies own sponsored chinese national players use them. Not even provincial. Just like even Butterfly sponsored Chinese players, still will get a special contractor that allows them to use DHS on FH and same with DHS sponsored player allowing the player to use a non DHS rubber on BH.For the ones that want to use cheap hybrids, and can use them for 6 months.... I'm talking about DHS rubber to be change every 2 to 4 weeks.... your rubber can last you 6 months?

3) recycling the rubber is not a problem. It is done a lot, especially for players that don't have a good financial background. If you are in a semi-pro environment, you not in a club, you are in a team. Unless you have some bullying going on, teammates won't laugh at you.
I mean, 1 x DHS last you 2 to 4 weeks, you need a good 20 sheets min a year and that is only for 1 blade. Most players have 2 to 3 setups. So lets say 50 sheets a year. Then you need another 30 sheets of Butterfly. Not everyone can buy 80 sheets per year. We haven't even worked out the blade costs, glue costs, booster cost etc etc.
This figure is more for males, the female teams I am with, the rubbers obviously last longer. But I do have a LP hitter that breaks her pips around 2 to 4 weeks, so she also needs min 12 sheets a year for 1 setup.
I did say the 6 months was extreme, and the topsheet was completely worn. I also said for the amount I play (10-15hrs/week) and my stroke technique, it would be wise to change at least every 3 months. For the amount semi-pro plays, this would probably then be 1 month max.

I guess that pros wouldn't even want to reboost, as it could not be exactly the same as the fresh boost (?). So replace at least every 2 weeks to 1 week.

-------------------------------------------------------

Huh, are cheap chinese rubbers that inconsistent? Maybe I am just too low level to tell the difference.

It seems suspicious to recycle a rubber by flipping it around if that person demands top performance. If you want consistent performance across the entire topsheet, you will have to replace the rubber.


If you are from a bad financial background, even more reason to use cheap chinese rubbers. Personally, I would rather use half as cheap rubber and replace twice as frequently than the opposite. Of course, this is assuming you like performance of the cheap rubber.

 
Last edited:
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
Aug 2021
1,956
347
2,319
Interesting. I've never tried Target National, but tried Target 90. I felt it was similar to H3. So I figured Target National is also similar to H3.

Can you tell me about Target National. Is it a hybrid similar to Big Dipper? Is it fast and bouncy? or is it dense and steady like H3?
 
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Apr 2022
187
82
340
Interesting. I've never tried Target National, but tried Target 90. I felt it was similar to H3. So I figured Target National is also similar to H3.

Can you tell me about Target National. Is it a hybrid similar to Big Dipper? Is it fast and bouncy? or is it dense and steady like H3?

Yes, definitely different from Target 90. 90 is slow like H3 so you have to boost, STN plays great with no boost. Slight bounce on topsheet, but speed comes from the sponge. Heavy, has a solid feel. No clicky sound, but makes a cracking sound on smashes and drives. Has really nice speed to spin ratio, very controlled.

 
Last edited:
Top