Different types of FH services

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I want to learn a different service because I only know 2 for my forehand, the pendulum and the reverse pendulum. Any suggestions on different FH services?
 
says Spin and more spin.
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Those are all you need. If you can do them well, you can create:

Backspin, side/backspin, sidespin, side/topspin, topspin and no spin serves

With either the reverse pendulum or the pendulum serve.

That covers all possible serves with leftward hooking sidespin and rightward hooking sidepspin.

Hook and Tomahawk serve would duplicate the sidespin on the reverse pendulum. But you can do all the spin variations with those as well.

And if you look at all the top players in the world, they generally do those two serves you said you do and they do all the spin variations available for each.

 
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Those are all you need. If you can do them well, you can create:

Backspin, side/backspin, sidespin, side/topspin, topspin and no spin serves

With either the reverse pendulum or the pendulum serve.

That covers all possible serves with leftward hooking sidespin and rightward hooking sidepspin.

Hook and Tomahawk serve would duplicate the sidespin on the reverse pendulum. But you can do all the spin variations with those as well.

And if you look at all the top players in the world, they generally do those two serves you said you do and they do all the spin variations available for each.

Ok thank you for the advice :) I'm trying to learn how to place my pendulum serve down the line

 
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Ok thank you for the advice :) I'm trying to learn how to place my pendulum serve down the line

One pendulum serves down the line coming right up...
@ NDH,
I finally did it! I did not smile nor cho-leh nor show any sign of any emotion. I kept my Waldner'esque cool all the way. Icy cold stare only.
 
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Those are all you need. If you can do them well, you can create:

Backspin, side/backspin, sidespin, side/topspin, topspin and no spin serves

With either the reverse pendulum or the pendulum serve.

That covers all possible serves with leftward hooking sidespin and rightward hooking sidepspin.

Hook and Tomahawk serve would duplicate the sidespin on the reverse pendulum. But you can do all the spin variations with those as well.

And if you look at all the top players in the world, they generally do those two serves you said you do and they do all the spin variations available for each.

Agree
2 types of serves x 6 different spins x long/short/half long x different angles is plenty.

My coach taught me (decades ago) to have 2 different serves - under spin and no spin (and just 4 placements areas) and practice 1 hour a day for 6 months. (that is 1000 serves per hour x 30 x 6 months), around 200k of serves....
And I found that extremely useful to have (a total of 4 different placements with 2 different spin - 8 serves basically)

 
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Also don't discount BH serves. I think they have a bit less deception than FH serves but you can generate great spin and at the amateur level that still can work pretty well.
 
says Spin and more spin.
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I dunno if i am the only one ,but one advantage of a Bh Serve is,you are mostly quicker in the basic Stance and faster to react.
Or am i the only one feeling that kind of way?
(I know Fh servers have also more advantages with spin deceit,etc.)

I find the opposite. If your motion on a FH serve is good, the transfer of weight from left foot to right foot (for a rightly) and the followthrough after, bring you directly into a ready position. I feel like a BH serve leaves you ready for the BH but does not bring you into a neutral position.

Also, on the FH serves, the fact that you have moved your feet with the momentum of the serve as you end up in the ready position means that you are automatically more ready to move your feet. If your feet don't have to move, a lot of people just don't move them.

But since everyone is different, there will always be people who prefer BH serves and others who prefer FH serves. One thing to note is how, most top pros can serve with BH but most top pros do not use BH serves very often. It may be worth thinking about some of the reasons why this is the case.

 
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hm i find when doing a Bh serve, I am not as vulnerable to some quick counterattacks compared to a FH serve which comes then fast looped or even a killshot to my BH,I get the sense that I have more oversight of the opponents motions..but you are right,might be preferences.
I guess some pros mix it in to disrupt the opponents assumption of his Fh servers if the opponent has already a "feeling" or worst figured your serves out.
This may all be objective,but I am with you that when doing a Fh serve ,at least I am more ready and faster to counter/stay in motion with my own Fh,but i think this is also a technique and speed assumption.
But i find it harder when i am already in Motion/movement and the opponent anicipated my movement right,the can outplay me more frequently.

 
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says Spin and more spin.
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hm i find when doing a Bh serve, I am not as vulnerable to some quick counterattacks compared to a FH serve which comes then fast looped or even a killshot to my BH,I get the sense that I have more oversight of the opponents motions..but you are right,might be preferences.
I guess some pros mix it in to disrupt the opponents assumption of his Fh servers if the opponent has already a "feeling" or worst figured your serves out.
This may all be objective,but I am with you that when doing a Fh serve ,at least I am more ready and faster to counter/stay in motion with my own Fh,but i think this is also a technique and speed assumption.
But i find it harder when i am already in Motion/movement and the opponent anicipated my movement right,the can outplay me more frequently.

From this video:

I chose the first serve to show the sequence:

Toss is falling:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2001%2040%20PM%20png.png


Just after contact; ML's right leg is starting to swing around to bring his torso to face the table:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2002%2005%20PM%20png.png


A fraction of a second later after the ball has bounced on ML's side:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2002%2026%20PM%20png.png


The ball is approaching the net, ML is watching FZD and his body is almost facing the table:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2002%2043%20PM%20png.png


Before the ball bounces on FZD's side, ML is almost in position and he is watching FZD, his feet just have not come back to the ground yet:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2003%2053%20PM%20png.png


Before FZD has taken his shot, both ML's feet are on the gound and he is set in a ready position where he can control the whole table as he is ready for a FH or a BH and he is ideally positioned with his right foot further back than his left, with his left foot at the BH line and his right foot in line with the midline of the table. So, if FZD takes the ball wide to BH or wide to FH, ML is in position to control the table:

Screen%20Shot%202022%2007%2025%20at%2010%2003%2015%20PM%20png.png


Without having that action of how the right foot swings around from behind to bring you into position for the return, a FH serve would not be very effective. If you are not doing that followthrough, it is hard to imagine you getting good spin on your FH serves because that followthrough is part of what ensures you are using weight transfer and your body's rotation to help spin the ball.

And if you are doing that weight transfer/followthrough that brings you into the ready position, after a FH serve, you should be in a good position to watch your opponent make his shot and be ready to cover the whole table.

With a BH serve, it would be hard to do it with your feet in the position of the last photo of ML's serve sequence. And if you start the serve with the left foot further back or the feet parallel to the table you are not as ready to control the table as you would be with the right foot further back.

 
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I would suggest experimenting with a variety of different serves if you have the time: hook/jb, tomahawk, backhand, pendulum to find what works best for you. Working on serves is a lot of fun and a good way to practice solo. For each serve, you can start off by practicing underspin and sidespin first, and then add topspin and nospin later if you like the way the serve feels.

The "table tennis junkie" youtube channel (which is sadly dormant now) has a number of great videos on a variety of serves. Highly recommend you try all of them if you have the time (I did and it was fun!). Also, the Lebrun brothers have really creative serves that trouble high level opponents. Dima was in a world of pain trying to return Alexis Lebrun's serves in the recent European Summer Series.

If you watch WTT events on youtube, you'll see that the pendulum and reverse pendulum serves are very popular, but in the women's game, you also tend to see a lot of hook and tomahawk serves. The backhand serve is not very popular these days, but it can be super effective (esp. serving short to the opponent's forehand) and I highly recommend trying it. Dima and Darko use it really well.
 
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More than that, you know there are different types of FH services, but did you realize that you can develop different motions for FH pendulum services? I have got 2 motions for FH pendulum services, both motions can serve different spins.

Why do I develop 2 motions for FH pendulum services? If I had only 1 motion for FH pendulum service for different spins, after a few services, a smart opponent can easily see the subtle differences of my motion for different spins. But if I am using different motions, for instance, I served a no spin and the opponent missed it, then I am using another motion to serve a no spin again, the opponent see me changing my motion and may think the spin this time will be different, he will miss it again and he will be really confused.

Service is not like FH drive. We need to have a standard motion to keep our FH drive effective, but the motion for service shouldn't be as standard as textbook. If all your services are as standard as textbook, that means everyone can easily understand your services. That's why Mima Ito services the ball like dancing.
 
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