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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    It shouldn’t have to be like this, it must have something to do with old casting forms or whatever and new material. But this is the way it is.

    Cheers
    L-zr

    I will test the robot again later, if it will work fine with 40+ suddenly for more times consistently then ok, if not and only do work flawlessly with 40mm then i have no choice, i think buying 40mm balls is cheaper than buying another robot.


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    #22
    There are actually a lot of old era robots that can't take 40+ P balls, I've been struggling with an old one recently too, it has to do with the calibrated parts that are manufactured in the factory and cannot be replaced, some of them are not even produced anymore, or worse: the factory has closed and the brand does not even exist anymore too !

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    #23
    I have mixed 40+ balls, seam and seamless, can't tell the difference much in playing, and actually the best balls i was playing with as 40+ is XuShaoFa then followed by DHS, and i also have GEWO recently from the coach and it seems very good balls, but i bought also Nittaku Premium balls and for no reason i hate them and many also hate it, but funny that i see many players play with it, so it is like having two teams or sides, one love it, and other hate it, and the ball sounds heavier and the sound is louder too.

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    #24
    I love Nittaku premium I think they and DHS DJ 40+ are the absolute best, both have seams. You don’t really need to feed your robot with that quality. It’s better to change the robot rather than have to go chasing balls that are no longer made.

    Cheers
    L-zr
    Steal a little and they throw You in jail, Steal a lot and they make You King... (Dylan)

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    I love Nittaku premium I think they and DHS DJ 40+ are the absolute best, both have seams. You don’t really need to feed your robot with that quality. It’s better to change the robot rather than have to go chasing balls that are no longer made.

    Cheers
    L-zr

    If the balls are almost or already gone and discontinued and will never be made then you are right, i have no choice, i found a place or store to buy 40m with 120 balls, i don't know if that is a good idea to buy this last batch or even make it like two packs of each with 120 so i have 240 balls, that is more than enough, i won't fill the roboto to the maximum, and even if the balls are broken some i still have, i do have 40mm balls already of Donic Coach, but because few balls are being lost and very few are broken so the number is shrinking, but i like the idea of another robot, it just i won't buy it any soon then and i don't know about the prices later.


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    #26

    seems like not many people know that there is 4 major seam factories in the world and 1 seamless.

    1 seam in Germany
    1 seam in Japan
    2 seam in China
    1 seamless in China (yes, all your seamless balls is from the same place)

    ITTF gives you a good breakdown on the approved balls, Gewo for example have both seam and seamless
    https://equipments.ittf.com/#/equipments/balls

    40mm balls is around 39.5mm
    40+ balls is around 40.5mm
    so it is 1mm larger.
    Very clever for ITTF to increase the size during the ball material ban (Celluloid)

    TTT

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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    seems like not many people know that there is 4 major seam factories in the world and 1 seamless.

    1 seam in Germany
    1 seam in Japan
    2 seam in China
    1 seamless in China (yes, all your seamless balls is from the same place)

    ITTF gives you a good breakdown on the approved balls, Gewo for example have both seam and seamless
    https://equipments.ittf.com/#/equipments/balls

    40mm balls is around 39.5mm
    40+ balls is around 40.5mm
    so it is 1mm larger.
    Very clever for ITTF to increase the size during the ball material ban (Celluloid)

    interesting , but when i went through the ball section of the ittf rules, celluloid was still mentioned as a material to make balls


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    #28
    BTW I assume you all know that the 40- ball (celluloid) is still perfectly legal in all ITTF tournaments
    This is the same stunt Adhamm Sharara pulled to pass the 40- ball in 2000 after it failed in previous BGM or AGM or whatever. He said 38 will continue to be legal. Then he cleverly dropped 38 later & also did the same thing with 40- but 40- has not been dropped yet as far as I know.


    2.3 THE BALL
    2.3.1 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm.
    2.3.2 The ball shall weigh 2.7g.
    2.3.3 The ball shall be made of celluloid or similar plastics material and shall be white or orange, and matt.

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  9. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by XinXu
    BTW I assume you all know that the 40- ball (celluloid) is still perfectly legal in all ITTF tournaments
    This is the same stunt Adhamm Sharara pulled to pass the 40- ball in 2000 after it failed in previous BGM or AGM or whatever. He said 38 will continue to be legal. Then he cleverly dropped 38 later & also did the same thing with 40- but 40- has not been dropped yet as far as I know.


    2.3 THE BALL
    2.3.1 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm.
    2.3.2 The ball shall weigh 2.7g.
    2.3.3 The ball shall be made of celluloid or similar plastics material and shall be white or orange, and matt.

    Then they say, ITTF approved balls must be used. And of the link I shared, for years now, there is NO celluloid versions approved.
    If you have an old ball, or old table model that has ITTF logo on, but not on the approved list, it is NOT / NO Longer ITTF approved.

    So depending what tournament you are talking about, your own garage tournament you can can use anything you want, but anything of proper classification - it will normally follows ITTF Approved list on equipment, thus NO tournament are able to use non approved equipment, so celluloid is out of the equation.

    Not to mention, all big manufactures has stop making celluloid balls like 7 years or 8 years ago already.

    TTT

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    #30
    Ok, not talking about ITTF rules about balls or tournaments, it is clearly here that i should just stop buying 40mm celluloid balls and just focus on 40+, so it means i should test my new Chinese robot first or look for another robot much advanced at good price great for 40+, so then i never worry about the shortage of 40mm balls in future for any reason.

  11. lodro is offline
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    #31
    Interesting for me is the fact that on the list of current approved balls only 15 are seamless while 64 are seamed
    Last edited by lodro; 08-09-2022 at 03:39 AM.

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    Interesting for me is the fact that on the list of current approved balls only 15 are seamless while 64 are seamed

    Is that an issue for whom?!!!


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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    Is that an issue for whom?!!!

    It is definitely not an issue but I was surprised by the numbers.
    Considering that with the new roto-mould system it is so easy to make virtually perfect balls so quickly and cheaply
    i would have thought that the seamless ball was well on its way to conquer the market


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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto
    Ok, not talking about ITTF rules about balls or tournaments, it is clearly here that i should just stop buying 40mm celluloid balls and just focus on 40+, so it means i should test my new Chinese robot first or look for another robot much advanced at good price great for 40+, so then i never worry about the shortage of 40mm balls in future for any reason.

    wise choice
    since they stopped making them few years ago already.
    It will only just get harder and harder to source EOL goods.

    Next question is, how long will it take until 40+ is changed again

    TTT

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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    It is definitely not an issue but I was surprised by the numbers.
    Considering that with the new roto-mould system it is so easy to make virtually perfect balls so quickly and cheaply
    i would have thought that the seamless ball was well on its way to conquer the market

    quality of seam balls is still way higher
    I like seamless when 40+ first got out, but the new generation seam balls are very good

    I got seamed samples 1.5 years before the official start date of 40+.
    And when the first real commericial batch was out, the seamed balls wouldn't even last 10 hours and it would break.
    I still remember early batches, a teams match, of 10 matches, which lasted 2 to 3 hours, 3 balls wasn't enough....
    And seamless was more durable.

    Well, that is 6 years ago
    seamed has been superior for the past 3 years

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    TTT

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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    It is definitely not an issue but I was surprised by the numbers.
    Considering that with the new roto-mould system it is so easy to make virtually perfect balls so quickly and cheaply
    i would have thought that the seamless ball was well on its way to conquer the market

    Can we blame that to COVID which is came late anyway? Or is that because of labours issues? You are surprised so we are, dunno why is that?


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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    wise choice
    since they stopped making them few years ago already.
    It will only just get harder and harder to source EOL goods.

    Next question is, how long will it take until 40+ is changed again

    The question is, what i will do with an old robot then if i don't buy or use 40mm balls anymore, it is either i buy those balls as the last batch for me and never look back again, i won't use those balls much or won't break them a lot so they can last longer, and with another robot as a backup or say as main primary one then i won't use that 40mm balls robot much, but at least to keep it in use so it won't stop working completely due to not using it decades, as i said, i can buy 120 balls or more as long they are available now, and i only use like 60-80 balls for the robot.


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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    quality of seam balls is still way higher
    I like seamless when 40+ first got out, but the new generation seam balls are very good

    I got seamed samples 1.5 years before the official start date of 40+.
    And when the first real commericial batch was out, the seamed balls wouldn't even last 10 hours and it would break.
    I still remember early batches, a teams match, of 10 matches, which lasted 2 to 3 hours, 3 balls wasn't enough....
    And seamless was more durable.

    Well, that is 6 years ago
    seamed has been superior for the past 3 years

    Now are we talking about those balls in 1 star or 2 or 3? Training balls or playing games balls if they are different?

    I don't know which new balls i should buy if i will have a robot for this new poly/plastic balls, most likely training balls are less quality than top quality ones used for tournaments or games, i used few different ones, and most of them last long really, and to my surprises, Xushaofa balls seamless i had like 3-4 years ago lasted all those years, hardly to break, but they are discontinued and not sure if XSF having any replacement of them nowadays, and yes, i hate Nittaku Premium balls although i can play with them.


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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TareqPhoto

    Now are we talking about those balls in 1 star or 2 or 3? Training balls or playing games balls if they are different?

    I don't know which new balls i should buy if i will have a robot for this new poly/plastic balls, most likely training balls are less quality than top quality ones used for tournaments or games, i used few different ones, and most of them last long really, and to my surprises, Xushaofa balls seamless i had like 3-4 years ago lasted all those years, hardly to break, but they are discontinued and not sure if XSF having any replacement of them nowadays, and yes, i hate Nittaku Premium balls although i can play with them.

    I only talk about 3 star ITTF Approved, since its for match / tournament play.

    your question on old ball/robot issue. Celluloid ball is smaller and has different bounce.
    So its bad that you are training with celluloid and then going to play matches with 40+

    and no Covid has nothing to do with seamless not getting popular. The quality is just not there.
    Nittaku Premium is regarded as one of the best balls in the market in terms of weight and roundness. Even today's DHS DJ40+ (or D40+ before) is all very good and popular.
    Seamless is hardly used on the pro circuit.
    Maybe in tier 3 countries, where Stag is a sponsor, because Stag only has seamless, otherwise, tier 1s mostly follow DHS balls, or the Stiga/Donic ABS/Seamed balls

    TTT

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