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  1. lodro is offline
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    That is commonly referred to as “carbon layer”.

    only inside your head and other ignoramuses head. 🤣


  2. latej is offline
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    #22
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    only inside your head and other ignoramuses head. 🤣

    I've heard referring to ALC/ZLC/Tamca as Carbon many times too. It's not 100% correct/perfect of course. But I guess we all understand how Lazer meant it. The intention is more important here. Otherwise we could try zooming into the layer until we are no more sure that even electrons exists :-) I vote for common sense :-) And for increasing the level of the common sense due to the TTD :-)

    -- Ignorasimus majorus optimus

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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    I've heard referring to ALC/ZLC/Tamca as Carbon many times too. It's not 100% correct/perfect of course. But I guess we all understand how Lazer meant it. The intention is more important here. Otherwise we could try zooming into the layer until we are no more sure that even electrons exists :-) I vote for common sense :-) And for increasing the level of the common sense due to the TTD :-)

    -- Ignorasimus majorus optimus
    .

    Yes indeed we hear it all the time everything is CARBON ---- well, it is not.
    There is really no reason why some stupid Simplification should be upheld just because it caters to the low common denominator.
    Especially not if the OP has asked not for carbon but for ALC and ZLC.

    Call it what it is : A dog is not a cat and a horse is not a donkey just because they all have 4 legs 😉


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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    Yes indeed we hear it all the time everything is CARBON ---- well, it is not.
    There is really no reason why some stupid Simplification should be upheld just because it caters to the low common denominator.
    Especially not if the OP has asked not for carbon but for ALC and ZLC.

    Call it what it is : A dog is not a cat and a horse is not a donkey just because they all have 4 legs 😉
    That is not the situation here. My impression was he used the word Carbon to refer to a ALC/ZLC/whatever super layer. Granted, it is imprecise, I don't argue with that. It's like if I say, we play some sport. And you say no, no no no, we play TT. Calling it sport is stupid simplification :-)

    There are thousands of levels of abstraction. And as I said, I think more important is the intention in what was expressed, than the imprecision in it. I hope you get that drift.

    And for the record, I disagreed with Lazer when he said there is no need for fancy names when speaking about cross-over step. For the people at that exact level, it makes a lot of sense to call it cross-over step, and not calling it cross-over is indeed a bit silly.

    But here I must agree that it is just nitpicking, especially when he said that he meant it that way. I choose to trust it. And I wish you good n8, I guess I stop in this thread :-). Cheers.

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  5. lodro is offline
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    That is not the situation here. My impression was he used the word Carbon to refer to a ALC/ZLC/whatever super layer. Granted, it is imprecise, I don't argue with that. It's like if I say, we play some sport. And you say no, no no no, we play TT. Calling it sport is stupid simplification :-)

    There are thousands of levels of abstraction. And as I said, I think more important is the intention in what was expressed, than the imprecision in it. I hope you get that drift.

    And for the record, I disagreed with Lazer when he said there is no need for fancy names when speaking about cross-over step. For the people at that exact level, it makes a lot of sense to call it cross-over step, and not calling it cross-over is indeed a bit silly.

    But here I must agree that it is just nitpicking, especially when he said that he meant it that way. I choose to trust it. And I wish you good n8, I guess I stop in this thread :-). Cheers.

    Chicken !!! 😁

    There have always been 2 schools of thinking:
    Ignorance is bliss and Ignorance is the cause of all suffering.😂

    Next time you go to the disco make sure you come home with the date you prefer : male or female, they are all carbon NO, WAIT i was going to say all human beings

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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    Chicken !!! 😁

    There have always been 2 schools of thinking:
    Ignorance is bliss and Ignorance is the cause of all suffering.😂

    Next time you go to the disco make sure you come home with the date you prefer : male or female, they are all carbon NO, WAIT i was going to say all human beings

    The ability to abstract has nothing to do with ignorance…
    Steal a little and they throw You in jail, Steal a lot and they make You King... (Dylan)

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    #27
    its not "carbon" layer. The correct terminology or "known as" is composite layer.
    Any of your carbon, glass, paper etc in the blade can also be called composite layer.
    Carbon is only 1 of the 3

    But in the beginner circle, people just call it wood and carbon.
    And for that reason (beginner circle), I tend not to go into a debate.
    For the ones that want to know, then here is your answer.
    But I would say most people would know that Carbon is referring to composite layer (since it is 1 of the 3, and more popular of the 3)

    Side step and cross over, most people know it is different (since it is no where the same or part of it)

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    Last edited by Tony's Table Tennis; 08-19-2022 at 04:34 AM.
    TTT

  8. lodro is offline
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    #28
    Hello TableTennisDaily Community!

    Can anybody tell me in details what is the difference between the pure wood, ZLC and ALC blades? I've been looking, but I couldn't find the answer. Thought I might here.
    Thanks!
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The OP question is really quite clear.
    He asks for the difference between all wood blade and a blade that has composite layers of either ZLC ( Zylon/carbon) and/or
    ALC ( Aramid or Arylate / carbon.

    He also does not ask for blades that simply a carbon layer.
    He asks a very specific question about playing quality of these blades in comparison with just a wooden blade.

    So c'mon you experts.......................answer the bloody question , specifically, not generally and be precise 😁😁😁

  9. Lazer is offline
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    #29
    Let me educate you again.
    You can find the most complete information about ALC and ZLC on Butteflys homepage. Simply do a Google search on Butterfly…

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    Last edited by Lazer; 08-19-2022 at 07:14 AM.
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  10. lodro is offline
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    #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Let me educate you again.
    You can find the most complete information about ALC and ZLC on Butteflys homepage. Simply do a Google search on Butterfly…

    You wanted to educate me in post #11 , so i assume it is me you try to educate again.
    It might help if you would learn to press the blue line called REPLY TO XYZs POST.

    More to the point: It is not me who asks for information . I used to own a laminating business and know the ins and outs
    of the job. and I definitely do not need advise from amateurs. 😂

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  11. Lazer is offline
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    #31
    That my friend is a waste of space when the posts are next to each other…
    Steal a little and they throw You in jail, Steal a lot and they make You King... (Dylan)

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    That is commonly referred to as “carbon layer”.

    Through misuse of language. "Commonly" here means nothing, it's imprecise, incorrect, vague, abstract,elusive, unclear... inaccurate. As we say in french "On ? qui ça "on" ? "on" c'est un con .". I've been told hundreds of time in the very beginning of my journalist career to NEVER EVER use misuse of language: information has to be accurate, if it doesn't, then restate it.

    I know, most of the people are imprecise, incorrect, vague, abstract, elusive... inaccurate, that's why we see misuse of language everywhere, and that's why it unfortunately leads to wrong informations, wrong knowledge, and sadly nowadays to fake news, and that's why there are journalists with ethics, and why there are FOX News complotist idiots, because spreading your own truth is always better to them instead of spreading the right one, even if it does not please your inner convictions. And the OP noticed that indeed in this topic, he needs the RIGHT information, not misuse of language.

    You should use ethics: for example, I'm a vegan, I'm a sportaholic and I use protein powders, will I say that "commonly vegan proteins are as easy to use as animal proteins ?" nope, it does not please my convictions, but I have to face it: it's more difficult to get a complete complete amino acids composition with vegan proteins than with animal ones. Of course I'm informed enough to know how to eat correctly now, but the right information is not that easy to recover sometimes.

    And again: END OF DISCUSSION

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    Last edited by OldUser; 08-19-2022 at 11:26 AM.

  13. Lazer is offline
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    #33
    Argument of a straw man, nothing vague at all.
    Steal a little and they throw You in jail, Steal a lot and they make You King... (Dylan)

  14. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #34
    You guys need to remember, in Lazer's side of the world - they have they own language as far as TT is concerned. It is very different to many of my Swede friends and friends at the Yasaka (Woodhouse) and Stiga HQ (we all speak the same - we is referring the 20+ TT countries I've visited and friends from maybe another 20 more countries), but Lazer, his city is unique. We need to adapt to his TT language.

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  15. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro
    Hello TableTennisDaily Community!

    Can anybody tell me in details what is the difference between the pure wood, ZLC and ALC blades? I've been looking, but I couldn't find the answer. Thought I might here.
    Thanks!
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The OP question is really quite clear.
    He asks for the difference between all wood blade and a blade that has composite layers of either ZLC ( Zylon/carbon) and/or
    ALC ( Aramid or Arylate / carbon.

    He also does not ask for blades that simply a carbon layer.
    He asks a very specific question about playing quality of these blades in comparison with just a wooden blade.

    So c'mon you experts.......................answer the bloody question , specifically, not generally and be precise 😁😁😁

    The way this thread is going (and not surprised), that dude is long gone

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  16. lodro is offline
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony's Table Tennis

    The way this thread is going (and not surprised), that dude is long gone

    but then again,he might just quietly read all this and either rolling on the floor laughing or otherwise think to himself: "What the " f#%* 😁


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    #37
    Are you all being deliberately dumb. Carbon fiber resin composites which are used as a layer is some table tennis blades are not Carbon by your own criteria they are carbon fiber resin composites. And ZLC is a Carbon fiber resin composites and Zylon TM Amarid weave.Also wood blades are not wood as they contain hide glueThis is all mindless pedantry and yes it's commonly called carbon blades if they contain carbon fibre resin composite weaves as a significant part of one layer in the construction if you want an example see literally most TTD videos on these blades.The original argument was just made in a spiteful internet clout chasing way and is embarrassing since they apparently didn't factor in that carbon fiber usually contains resin

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    Last edited by passifid; 08-19-2022 at 05:43 PM.

  18. lodro is offline
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by passifid
    Are you all being deliberately dumb. Carbon fiber resin composites which are used as a layer is some table tennis blades are not Carbon by your own criteria they are carbon fiber resin composites. And ZLC is a Carbon fiber resin composites and Zylon TM Amarid weave.Also wood blades are not wood as they contain hide glueThis is all mindless pedantry and yes it's commonly called carbon blades if they contain carbon fibre resin composite weaves as a significant part of one layer in the construction if you want an example see literally most TTD videos on these blades.The original argument was just made in a spiteful internet clout chasing way and is embarrassing since they apparently didn't factor in that carbon fiber usually contains resin

    another amateur who is giving his 5 cents worth 🤣

    Children of Amarid as it's meant to be heard, narrated by Pete Cross. Discover the English Audiobook at Audible. Free trial available!


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    #39
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    another amateur who is giving his 5 cents worth 🤣

    Children of Amarid as it's meant to be heard, narrated by Pete Cross. Discover the English Audiobook at Audible. Free trial available!

    So you believe that carbon fibre composites are pure carbon?
    and that wood blades don't contain glue?
    Or have a plastic lens in the handle?
    ​​​​​​
    this is the president you have set. Or do you beleive that being good at table tennis means you know the structure of carbon fibre weaves better than the people who make them?

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  20. lodro is offline
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by passifid

    So you believe that carbon fibre composites are pure carbon?
    and that wood blades don't contain glue?
    Or have a plastic lens in the handle?
    ​​​​​​
    this is the president you have set. Or do you beleive that being good at table tennis means you know the structure of carbon fibre weaves better than the people who make them?

    What are examples of composite?A composite is a material that is made by combining two or more substances that have different physical properties.

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