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  1. tabletennisdaily1 is offline
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by hipnotic

    People keep using the diving board analogy likes it's a great one, but it's not. For a diving board to function properly it needs to be calibrated to the user's weight, otherwise it will simply not spring back. "The spring constant of a springboard is usually adjusted by way of a fulcrum that is located approximately mid way along the springboard. Springboards are usually operated in a linear regime where they approximately obey Hooke's law. When loaded with a diver, the combination of the diver's approximately constant mass, and the constant stiffness of the spring(board) result in a resonance frequency that is adjustable by way of the spring constant (set by the fulcrum position). " The key term here is "resonant frequency", and the big difference is that a diving board is standing still, while in TT the blade is moving, which causes a pre-deflection. During play, the resonant frequency will only match for certain shots, in all other situations you will only get energy dissipation from that effect. So, you can't say that a flexy blade gives you high speed, otherwise an All-round classic would be the fastest blade of all time.




    Here you are just confusing stiffness with hardness, and it still doesn't make much sense because the V5 has an Ash top ply, which is harder than Koto. None of these blades is really that flexy, Viscaria is usually around 1460Hz, and the V5 is a 6.3mm blade with ~1400Hz, not that far from Vis.

    These are good points. I agree that my post was not as carefully written as I had hoped. It was dangerous of me to use the springboard analogy to directly describe what is going on. I am not trying to accurately describe the real mechanics, what I meant to describe is what my personal "feeling" is testing the blade. I know this is a bit wishy washy, but it is the best I can do with my limited knowledge on this very complex mechanical action...

    So, I "felt" that the V5 pro was acting like a springboard. Also, I "felt" that the Viscaria is hard feeling, crispy with short dwell. With my stroke technique, the V5 is slow blocking, and very fast counter looping, with a long dwelly feel, and the Viscaria is fast blocking, fast counterlooping, with a short, hard, crispy feel. So the V5 has many more gears than the Viscaria, at least for my technique and rubber.

    I was also sloppy to say "koto is hard, thus the blade has short dwell", I did not really mean that directly, sorry. There are may other factors that affect the equation, including wood thickness, glueing process, and the other layers of wood/composites, etc.
    ---------------------------------

    Could you enlighten me: Where do gears come from in a blade? I had assumed it was due to the flex/springboard effect, but perhaps I am mistaken. Why exactly is V5pro slow and controlled in blocks with a long dwell, and faster than Viscaria in counterlooping?

    Also, do you have a guess what ash Sanwei uses for there blade? There are a variety of different ashes, some harder and some softer than koto. Maybe there is an industry standard, but I am ignorant on this topic.


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    #42
    Quote Originally Posted by tabletennisdaily1
    Sanwei v5 pro has much more gears than PG7, with a crazy fast top speed. Still has good dwell and feel and moderate vibrations like pf7. Slow when you want it, fast when you want it, with a great arc either way.

    Yep. This one is really fine. Fast with good touch. I'm sticking to my Yinhe V14 PRO, but this is the second best I tried, for me.


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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazer
    Please explain to me how it’s possible to have a crazy speed and a good dwell time at the same time…
    These attributes are mutually exclusive.

    Cheers
    L-zr

    This is just a crazy speed / good dwell time blade. There aren't many, but I agree on this one


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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by OldUser

    No, please.. don't: carbon composite blades are definitely way less flexible than all wood or non carbon composite, you won't feel the ball the same way, no vibrations or very few, less control then. They will be stiffer, WAY MORE stiffer, I've done that mistake already with a Viscaria or a Omar Assar, when you're used to that all wood flexible kind of feel and vibrations, carbon kills it.

    Actually I feel that my H3 works much better with a harder carbon blade than with other softer carbon or wooden blades. Harder wooden blades is quite ok as well but gives a bit of vibration that I'd rather be without.


  5. hipnotic is offline
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    #45
    Quote Originally Posted by tabletennisdaily1

    These are good points. I agree that my post was not as carefully written as I had hoped. It was dangerous of me to use the springboard analogy to directly describe what is going on. I am not trying to accurately describe the real mechanics, what I meant to describe is what my personal "feeling" is testing the blade. I know this is a bit wishy washy, but it is the best I can do with my limited knowledge on this very complex mechanical action...

    So, I "felt" that the V5 pro was acting like a springboard. Also, I "felt" that the Viscaria is hard feeling, crispy with short dwell. With my stroke technique, the V5 is slow blocking, and very fast counter looping, with a long dwelly feel, and the Viscaria is fast blocking, fast counterlooping, with a short, hard, crispy feel. So the V5 has many more gears than the Viscaria, at least for my technique and rubber.

    I was also sloppy to say "koto is hard, thus the blade has short dwell", I did not really mean that directly, sorry. There are may other factors that affect the equation, including wood thickness, glueing process, and the other layers of wood/composites, etc.
    ---------------------------------

    Could you enlighten me: Where do gears come from in a blade? I had assumed it was due to the flex/springboard effect, but perhaps I am mistaken. Why exactly is V5pro slow and controlled in blocks with a long dwell, and faster than Viscaria in counterlooping?

    Also, do you have a guess what ash Sanwei uses for there blade? There are a variety of different ashes, some harder and some softer than koto. Maybe there is an industry standard, but I am ignorant on this topic.

    No need to apologize, we're just exchanging ideas here 🙂. Sometimes I also have a hard time writing or explaining something that is very clear in my mind. Personally I haven't tried the V5 but I get what you are saying.

    That is a good question, "gears" mostly come from this longitudinal and out-of-plane deformation interaction, or in other words stiffness/hardness. The primary deflection is always along the longitudinal axis, so for low energy shots you won't even reach out-of-plane deformation. It is only when you hit hard and compress the rubber that you get this effect. Some blades have that "catchy" feeling, what TT gear lab calls a deep hold, and others are more repulsive. That has to do with the individual construction of the blade (I don't want to get much into that here), but basically there is an optimal area, neither too stiff and hard, or too flexible and soft.

    I'm not sure, seems White Ash to me, maybe European Ash which tends to be more yellow. Either way, that's not where the "magic" is. Sanwei makes (some) good 7 ply blades, I recall having a Fextra and that thing was springy and faster than a TB ALC I also had. It was too fast for me back then, but I've tried to replicate it just out of curiosity without success. It's certainly something in their gluing process, I'm not sure what.

    www.sdcttblades.com / Insta: @sdc_tt_blades / Face: @SDCblades

  6. lodro is offline
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by hipnotic

    No need to apologize, we're just exchanging ideas here 🙂. Sometimes I also have a hard time writing or explaining something that is very clear in my mind. Personally I haven't tried the V5 but I get what you are saying. That is a good question, "gears" mostly come from this longitudinal and out-of-plane deformation interaction, or in other words stiffness/hardness. The primary deflection is always along the longitudinal axis, so for low energy shots you won't even reach out-of-plane deformation. It is only when you hit hard and compress the rubber that you get this effect. Some blades have that "catchy" feeling, what TT gear lab calls a deep hold, and others are more repulsive. That has to do with the individual construction of the blade (I don't want to get much into that here), but basically there is an optimal area, neither too stiff and hard, or too flexible and soft. I'm not sure, seems White Ash to me, maybe European Ash which tends to be more yellow. Either way, that's not where the "magic" is. Sanwei makes (some) good 7 ply blades, I recall having a Fextra and that thing was springy and faster than a TB ALC I also had. It was too fast for me back then, but I've tried to replicate it just out of curiosity without success. It's certainly something in their gluing process, I'm not sure what.

    . It's certainly something in their gluing process, I'm not sure what.

    It is Sanwei's famous DOMINO STRUCTURE

    Last edited by lodro; 08-17-2022 at 12:20 AM.

  7. OldUser is offline
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Haraold
    wasn´t Waldners Blade made with Norwegian Pine?so Ayous-Pine-Limba at least the 2016 offensive (new Special edition,not the old Banda)

    He's been through some variations between Banda and Donic, the 2016 edition is a Banda clone for sure, so yeah it's fitted with pine, the Dicon he's used for a long time in the cell ball era was fitted with furu... pine specie so, it was the first Banda clone they did for him with a non-senso but already hollow handle, but the Senso Carbon he's used at the very end of his career before retiring is fitted with anigre, obeche/abachi... the other names for ayous so, and limba outer ply. No pine anymore. The carbon used here is indeed "light", say thinner, like the one used for the Yasaka Ma Lin soft carbon, but with thinner core and medial plies than the Ma Lin soft carbon.


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    #48
    Quote Originally Posted by OldUser

    The GOAT for blocks, JO Waldner, used limba-Ayous-Anigre blades with a thick core and more important: the famous egg shape provided tons of flex and indeed larger sweet spot, you need flex for blocking strategies, it's the grip on the handle that does it all: loose grip=slower and shorter block, tight grip=faster and longer.
    First, before using Waldner Senso Carbon, Waldner used limba - spruce - ayous - spruce - limba blade (Dicon, Banda, etc.)

    Second, given the right technique, you can block with anything, but in general, STIFFER blade is easier for blocking. When I use Clipper or Samsonov Force Pro Black (7-ply), it is so easy to block compared to flexible blade like Avalox BT500. Like I said, you can block with anything. When I used BT500, I could block fine, but I have to be more precise to have the ball contact the sweet spot of the blade (which is quite small for BT500). But when using Clipper, I can be more careless when blocking and the ball still goes in.

    Third, flexible blade usually has smaller sweet spot, which is obvious if you compare Clipper vs. BT500.
    Last edited by mightymouse; 08-18-2022 at 01:15 AM.

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