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  1. Kuzey Yıldız is offline
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    #1

    What should i do ?

    Hi everyone, I've been using Donic Waldner Senso Carbon with Bluefire M3 rubbers for about 1 year. I think i need a blade with normal handle instead of an empty one. I'm copying chinese pros technique (quick footwork and full power strokes from the ground; FZD, Fang Bo, Ma Long...), but i don't really feel comfortable with my current setup. I didn't know much about equipment a year ago so i bought the first setup that someone suggested . I need a setup that give me the confidence to go with the full power strokes. I play 4-7 hours a week, and a quick footwork.

    Should i change my setup entirely or just the rubbers? Can you suggest me a good blade that fits my playing style (and tacky hard chinese rubbers)? I was thinking about Fang Bo Carbon.

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    #2
    Inner carbon blade (such as Fang Bo carbon or Long 5) are more suited for going with a big powerful stroke because they give you more dwell time.

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    #3

    Yes, i need an inner carbon or powerful allwood blade (like Clipper CR) but should buy a new one or stick to the WSC?


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    #4
    Well you could try one of DHS blades because they are famous among Chinese players. But probably your current blade is already good enough to hit powerful loops.

    Maybe your rubbers are too soft. To hit powerful shots, you need to have hard rubbers. Boosted Hurricane, D09c, etc.

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    #5
    I wouldn't agree that DHS bo2 has a lot of dwell and flex...it's rather stiff. Long 5 is very flexy though, but less controllable.

    Haven't played with Donic Waldner Senso Carbon but according from the reviews online (which actually say little about the blade, since it's all people's opinions) and blade composition it should be rather flexible and allround.

    confidence to go with the full power strokes

    If you have confidence with your current blade, you shouldn't change the equipment. You will have to build the muscle memory again if you switch to somethingn different.

    But again, I can sense the spirit of EJing. You want this. So..

    My suggestions are:
    - HL5 with Hurricane 3 NEO on the FH and something hybrid on the BH
    - HL3 with any rubber you like
    - Clipper CR
    - DHS PG7/TG7 for budget version of HL3, but they may be quite different still in terms of characteristics...
    - Yinhe PD-437 for budget version of Clipper CR

    I also asked one of the experienced reviewers of TT equipment (Table Tennis Gan). Quoting: "victas liam pitchford or koki niwa carbon, both of them has good feeling". The discussion is under this video

    All of them are really good with tacky Chinese rubbers, except that Hl5 is not suitable for high tensioned on the BH...I find it very bouncy.

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    #6
    Haven't played with Donic Waldner Senso Carbon but according from the reviews online (which actually say little about the blade, since it's all people's opinions) and blade composition it should be rather flexible and allround.

    I really don't understand why people think this blade is allround, it's probably because blade has high throw angle.
    I don't have the budget to buy a provincial or national hurricane 3, i guess i will go with the commercial one and try it out.


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    #7
    If you go with commercial better use some booster, otherwise you'll likely be disappointed

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    #8
    But a Donic WSC is an inner carbon blade, no?
    AFAIK, a WSC is a pretty good blade, very forgiving and with very good feeling.
    If this blade doesn't give you the confidence to go full stroke, there will be little carbon blades that do...

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Inner carbon blade (such as Fang Bo carbon or Long 5) are more suited for going with a big powerful stroke because they give you more dwell time.
    You know nothing about dwell time. How does a carbon blade result in more dwell time?
    Whys is dwell time good? What is necessary to increase dwell time? Can dwell time be infinite?

    Stop repeating/spreading the myths and lies you hear on a TT forum.

    None of use have calibrated senses that can measure dwell time.

    BTW, I have two carbon blades. I never worry about dwell time of the difference between my TBS, TB ALC and my other wooden blades.

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    #10
    Together with harder Chinese rubbers like DHS H3 and 729 Battle in 41 deg hardness, the Yinhe V14 Pro suits me really fine. I think that harder Chinese rubbers require harder, stiffer blades to perform in the right way with these kind of strokes.

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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by mihalichtheone
    If you go with commercial better use some booster, otherwise you'll likely be disappointed

    Doesnt matter if it's commercial, provincial, or national.... You still have to boost it. Btw, I tried commercial and provincial on same blade, feels similar that I couldn't tell in a blind test. Don't think that commercial is auto inferior, that is sort of a myth that comm and prov are "different" rubbers.


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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mocker88
    Together with harder Chinese rubbers like DHS H3 and 729 Battle in 41 deg hardness, the Yinhe V14 Pro suits me really fine. I think that harder Chinese rubbers require harder, stiffer blades to perform in the right way with these kind of strokes.

    I actually agree, I prefer harder blades for harder sponge rubbers.

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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    You know nothing about dwell time. How does a carbon blade result in more dwell time?Whys is dwell time good? What is necessary to increase dwell time? Can dwell time be infinite?Stop repeating/spreading the myths and lies you hear on a TT forum.None of use have calibrated senses that can measure dwell time.BTW, I have two carbon blades. I never worry about dwell time of the difference between my TBS, TB ALC and my other wooden blades.

    brokenball, I can tell short "dwell" from long "dwell". If it's not dwell, what is it?


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    #14
    Keep the same rubbers and change the blade. I have played with WSC. It's a very soft carbon, feels more like an all wood blade which is nice. But WSC is not fast or powerful next to any popular ALC or ZLC blade.

    Get a Fang Bo carbon which was your first thought. It's like a less-expensive HL5 clone. And it will give more power than your WSC.

    If you keep the same rubbers it will be much easier to decide if you like the FB carbon blade. Once you know how you feel about the blade in comparison to your WSC, then you can experiment with different rubbers if you still want to.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tabletennisdaily1

    brokenball, I can tell short "dwell" from long "dwell". If it's not dwell, what is it?

    Are we talking about the same thing?
    Dwell time is the time the ball is in contact with the paddle.
    Not what you feel.
    What you feel happened many milliseconds after the ball has left the paddle.
    How long is a "short" dwell time?
    How long is a "long" dwell time?
    Do you know?
    Are you calibrated within microseconds?
    NO ONE IS!
    I am still waiting for silicon accelerometers to be able to sample at faster than every 10ms. There are some that can sample faster but only sample in 1 dimension or channel. Do you really think you can feel the difference in a vibration takes in microseconds? Actually only half a wave or vibration because the ball depress the paddle and springs back which is half a cycle.

    There was a recent thread about seeing the rotation of the ball. Movies are shown at 24 FPS which is 41.66666 ms per frame. Do you think you could see the difference the time between frames is 41.6666 ms or 41.6 ms or even 41.5 ms? Do you think you can feel that difference in time?

    So what are you feeling? In reality it makes no difference because the ball is long gone by the time you feel anything. Baal made this clear years ago on mytt. What you can do associate a certain feeling with a certain result.

    What I know is that dwell time can be anywhere from fractions of a millisecond to practically infinite. I know what conditions must be met to extend dwell time or calculate dwell/contact time. It takes some math and physics knowledge. Some very good TT players have figured this out by trial and error. I can calculate it.

    A question for you. How much dwell time is good? If more dwell time is good is infinite better? Obviously not because the then the ball wouldn't leave the paddle. So how much dwell time is good? If no one can answer that then should anybody be talking about dwell time?

    note, Yogi calls me a hard headed engineer. I troll engineers just like I am trolling with you, but my questions are good ones that I know you can't answer. How much dwell time is good or optimal?

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    #16
    Wow, every thread gets hijacked with this same bullshit. OP, buy the Fang Bo carbon like you thought and put your M3s on it. That's the only way to get a fair evaluation of the new blade.

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    #17
    Note there are at least 2 DHS Fang Bo Carbon blades, the B2 and the B2X (Limba top layer). The B2 is slower than the B2X (I have both, ~1300Hz vs. 1442Hz). I think the Fang Bo Carbon on tabletennis11 is the B2 from the way it looks (also see the B2 vs B2X review on the tabletennis11 blog). This blade plays very differently from a Yinhe Purple Dragon 437 (Clipper equivalent). 7-ply blades like the PD437 are stiffer and depending on the year it is built I got a 1400Hz blade (437) and a ~1270Hz blade (437"S"). So you should play someone else's blade first before ordering. Also the control on the DHS B2 is worse than what I get with the Yinhe 970xxA (Koto top layer, inner ALC) for about the same price, so again play someone else's blade first.
    Last edited by ejprinz; 09-06-2022 at 02:13 AM.
    DHS Fang Bo B2, Yinhe Moon Medium (FH), DHS GoldArc 5, 42.5deg (BH)

  18. Tony's Table Tennis is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Brs
    Wow, every thread gets hijacked with this same bullshit. OP, buy the Fang Bo carbon like you thought and put your M3s on it. That's the only way to get a fair evaluation of the new blade.

    I did suggest before that BB should makes his own thread and he can have his own classroom audience there.
    Not sure if there is no audience in the classroom or what.

    heck, he should come and teach Lin Yunju that he doesn't know what is dwell time too
    I did also suggest ITTF should hire him. Give everyone classes, especially all those equipment scientist in the world who give out myths for decades now.
    But its easier to go after some lower level players on forums.

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by mihalichtheone
    I wouldn't agree that DHS bo2 has a lot of dwell and flex...it's rather stiff. Long 5 is very flexy though, but less controllable.

    Haven't played with Donic Waldner Senso Carbon but according from the reviews online (which actually say little about the blade, since it's all people's opinions) and blade composition it should be rather flexible and allround.

    If you have confidence with your current blade, you shouldn't change the equipment. You will have to build the muscle memory again if you switch to somethingn different.

    But again, I can sense the spirit of EJing. You want this. So..

    My suggestions are:
    - HL5 with Hurricane 3 NEO on the FH and something hybrid on the BH
    - HL3 with any rubber you like
    - Clipper CR
    - DHS PG7/TG7 for budget version of HL3, but they may be quite different still in terms of characteristics...
    - Yinhe PD-437 for budget version of Clipper CR

    I also asked one of the experienced reviewers of TT equipment (Table Tennis Gan). Quoting: "victas liam pitchford or koki niwa carbon, both of them has good feeling". The discussion is under this video

    All of them are really good with tacky Chinese rubbers, except that Hl5 is not suitable for high tensioned on the BH...I find it very bouncy.

    In terms of equipment suggestions, I will +1 here

    Only thing is M3 and Chinese tacky rubbers is 2 different things.
    So, OP, I'm not sure if you are aware of that?

    Also becareful if you are on a tight budget.
    Your M3 might shrink, so the moment you take it off, don't expect to reuse it.
    If you do change blades, you should also budget for 2 more rubbers, and if you going to start trying out things like H3, then you may want to factor in a 3rd rubber to the spec or price of another M3 for example.

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    #20
    I did suggest before that BB should makes his own thread and he can have his own classroom audience there.
    Are you suggesting that what I say isn't true?
    If so, what proof do you have?

    I have started my own thread previously. There were too many idiots distracting from the main topic.
    I wouldn't mind having my own thread if others could only ask questions on it.

    What I see on this forum is too many young players trying to take short cuts.



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