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  1. brokenball is offline
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    #1

    Talking big.

    Too many people are talking as if they know something when they don't
    .
    One of my favorite quotes is
    [quote]
    “I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind.”
    [.quote[
    None of you can meet Lord Kelvin's criteria for having accurate information. This includes Dan who couldn't tell what the difference is between a short a long dwell time is.
    I know. Dwell time can be almost infinite but not under normal circumstances.

    I know I p!$$ed off most of the administrators on mytt because I would always challenge them . I was the heretic! Yet they could never refute what I said. It is easier to just ban me. I understand that people do like to have their beliefs challenged.

    So I want people to answer my questions about dwell time if they want to talk about dwell time. Be careful because chances are you will not be able to answer my qustions.

    I want people to answer my question about "throw angle". I want a definition. If you can't provide it then you better keep silent.

    Sometime I see posts where people say thicker rubbers are faster. People on the OOAK forum would disagree. I too would like facts.

    Some people think that some rubbers have more control than another. Again I would like to have facts

    If you can't supply facts then you are telling lies.

    One more thing, I have done only one review and after doing it I thought WTF am I doing? I am not a calibrated machine!
    Rubbers and blades are very similar. They should be reviewed with caution. The main criteria should be "what can I do with this rubber or paddle that I can't do with another.

    I like Rakza 7 4 for the prices of 3 deals from tabletennis11.com. This is NO force or impulse that a T05 or Dignics can generate that I can't generate with the Rakza 7.
    Therefore the trajectories will be the same. It might take a slightly different strokes but both can generate the same trajectory.

    I challenge anybody to refute that. ANYBODY!

    So when USDC tells me that people complain. I believe him but they shouldn't be complaining. They should be listening.

    BTW, mytt had/has plenty of PhDs on it. One was a PhD in nuclear physics. I pinned him down by asking what is the formula for maintaining fission in a nuclear reactor. I had to give him hint but he still couldn't give me the formula. The PhDs on mytt were lame.

    So listen to this and substitute cowboys for TT players.
    https://sonichits.com/video/Willie_N...To_Be_Cowboys)

    USDC, I didn't call anybody any names but you know what I really think
    USDC, so how do we educate the masses?











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  2. lodro is offline
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    #2

    brokenball;380685


    so how do we educate the masses?

    We don't. Is the short answer.

    The so called masses have been kept uneducated by churches and governments and rulers for over 2000 years.
    This way they are much easier to control.
    So, sorry but this train has gone..............and anyway , who gives a F#%* 😂

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  3. brokenball is offline
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    #3
    [quote="lodro;380686"]

    brokenball;380685



    [p]We don't. Is the short answer.
    [/quote[
    This is a shame. Lodro is one of the few sane people I have found on this forum but he as given up.

    [quote]
    The so called masses have been kept uneducated by churches and governments and rulers for over 2000 years.
    This way they are much easier to control.
    [/quote}
    Lodro IS VERY RIGHT!!!!!!

    This is sad. Very sad.
    What you guys don't realize is that I am internationally known. I have made this clear to USDC and I have shown to pingbirdpong. am a moderator on a Chinese servo control forum. I am probably the only foreigner that is a moderator on a Chinese forum. My company has sold over $1.5 to China in the first few months of this year. The war in Ukraine has hurt our sales to Russia through Finland. My company has had an international reach. But.....

    However, today I just sold my half of my company to the employees. I am richer than any of your TT idols. I know more too because even though I can't play TT like I could when I was 20, I know a hell of a lot more now when I am 69. The coach will train you on how to hit consistently. I can train you in how to hit the right kind of ball for any situation.

    I ask any of you. Do you know any body that can claim what I am claiming? I challenge you but especially the idiots on mytt and OOAK. HaggisV is one of the big idiots and he isn't that good. They claimed I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease. No, they are just that stupid.

    So do I have all the answers? NO! I could have a lot more of the TT forums hadn't done their best to piss me off.
    I have high speed color camera that can take color videos at up to 38K FPS. I have high speed accelerometers that can measure strokes and when impacts occur during a stoke.

    Whenever I have got banned or have had a scolding from USDC my enthusiasm wanes. None of you have access to the millions of dollars we have spent on my testing systems.
    Because I was banned once you guys will NEVER know that is take to increase dwell time unless one of you7 figures it out. Even then I would ask why is dwell time good or is it good.

    So when will you guys grow up an stop repeating myths and lies?

    When you to realize that reviews are just opinions but not facts?

    yes, I am p!$$ed. Ban me and remain stupid idiots.

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  4. Jim is offline
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    #4
    You are just full of yourself.

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  5. lodro is offline
    says TT-CLOWN, old git
     
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    #5
    [quote="brokenball;380692"]
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    brokenball;380685



    We don't. Is the short answer.
    [/quote[
    This is a shame. Lodro is one of the few sane people I have found on this forum but he as given up.

    The so called masses have been kept uneducated by churches and governments and rulers for over 2000 years.
    This way they are much easier to control.
    [/quote}
    Lodro IS VERY RIGHT!!!!!!

    This is sad. Very sad.
    What you guys don't realize is that I am internationally known. I have made this clear to USDC and I have shown to pingbirdpong. am a moderator on a Chinese servo control forum. I am probably the only foreigner that is a moderator on a Chinese forum. My company has sold over $1.5 to China in the first few months of this year. The war in Ukraine has hurt our sales to Russia through Finland. My company has had an international reach. But.....

    However, today I just sold my half of my company to the employees. I am richer than any of your TT idols. I know more too because even though I can't play TT like I could when I was 20, I know a hell of a lot more now when I am 69. The coach will train you on how to hit consistently. I can train you in how to hit the right kind of ball for any situation.

    I ask any of you. Do you know any body that can claim what I am claiming? I challenge you but especially the idiots on mytt and OOAK. HaggisV is one of the big idiots and he isn't that good. They claimed I was suffering from Dunning Kruger disease. No, they are just that stupid.

    So do I have all the answers? NO! I could have a lot more of the TT forums hadn't done their best to piss me off.
    I have high speed color camera that can take color videos at up to 38K FPS. I have high speed accelerometers that can measure strokes and when impacts occur during a stoke.

    Whenever I have got banned or have had a scolding from USDC my enthusiasm wanes. None of you have access to the millions of dollars we have spent on my testing systems.
    Because I was banned once you guys will NEVER know that is take to increase dwell time unless one of you7 figures it out. Even then I would ask why is dwell time good or is it good.

    So when will you guys grow up an stop repeating myths and lies?

    When you to realize that reviews are just opinions but not facts?

    yes, I am p!$$ed. Ban me and remain stupid idiots.

    NO, pleas don't go. We all still love you, right guys ????😎


  6. lodro is offline
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    #6

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  7. NDH is offline
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    #7
    Brokenball, everyone is entitled to express their opinion, even if that opinion isn’t one shared by the masses.

    I’ve never seen a video of you playing, but if I can be blunt for a second….. You sound like someone who has read a lot about table tennis, partly understands the science around physics, yet has never truly played at a “high” table tennis level.

    If I sit down at a table with Einstein and Timo Boll, and one tries to lecture me about velocity and angles, whilst the other gives me his opinions based on experience and feeling…… I think it’s fair to say that I’ll be listening to Timo all day long.

    Your point is semi valid about listening to others online talk about dwell time and angles etc, but this is only because the users posting those comments are all different, have different feeling, different understanding, different levels of the sport.

    Unfortunately for you, you fall into a niche category of just one person (you), who wants to know all of these fairly pointless metrics about the sport.

    I’d encourage you to post a current video of your ability, and that would potentially make your arguments a little more credible - Or it could completely discredit you once and for all.

    But as it stands, your points are generally irrelevant to how table tennis is played, and won’t ever be seen as valuable on table tennis forums like this.

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  8. Wrighty67 is offline
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    #8
    I have been hesitant to add to this but since you have chosen to take it head on, here goes..

    Brokenball - you have clearly got a lot of knowledge and experience in the theory & science of TT (amongst other things I am sure) however the way you deliver your message often comes across as dismissive, condescending & patronising which is unfortunate because it creates an adversarial discussion where you often lean on your wealth & success to add weight to your position, which really does nothing but further stoke the fire..

    It would be a shame to lose your thoughtful and evidence based approach amongst a world of opinions and speculation, but at the end of the day we are all here to have fun and debate, not to belittle each other.

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  9. jammmail is offline
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    #9
    Wow this is hilarious - imagine getting that wound up to start up a thread like this?

    Brokenball - take your money, enjoy your retirement, and maybe just stay away from table tennis forums, it will probably be better for your blood pressure.

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    Last edited by jammmail; 09-16-2022 at 09:39 AM.
    Spin to win

  10. lodro is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jammmail
    Wow this is hilarious - imagine getting that wound up to start up a thread like this?

    Brokenball - take your money, enjoy your retirement, and maybe just stay away from table tennis forums, it will probably be better for your blood pressure.

    Where is the love ????????????😥


  11. Der_Echte is offline
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    #11
    I sometimes have a pint and write sum shyt on the forum, but BB is drinking some strong tea and feeling it. BB entitled to write it, members entitled to do what they want with it... all in all this is hurting Carl the most.

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  12. lodro is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    I sometimes have a pint and write sum shyt on the forum, but BB is drinking some strong tea and feeling it. BB entitled to write it, members entitled to do what they want with it... all in all this is hurting Carl the most.

    sorry, why does it hurt Carl ?


  13. Lycanthrope is offline
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    #13
    Some people can see the world via math formula, but this is a talent only possessed by few of us. Others just want to enjoy the color, sound, smell and the touch because we were borne to understand the world via eyes ears mouth and skin.

    Feeling is subjective, not accurate and easily misunderstood. But if we only talk about numbers formulas, who do you think can and will listen to us?

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  14. jammmail is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lodro

    Where is the love ????????????😥

    Ask BB :-)

    Spin to win

  15. superbackhand is offline
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    #15
    what do we usually do with broken balls?

  16. yoass is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by superbackhand
    what do we usually do with broken balls?
    Mend them with love and care.

  17. superbackhand is offline
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    #17
    too much love will kill you

  18. Brs is offline
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    #18
    brokenball;380692
    Ban me
    ** MODS **

    This guy is such a tool. Seriously "Ban me" is the most useful thing he has ever contributed to a TTD thread. Please ban him.

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  19. tabletennisdaily1 is offline
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    #19
    Brokenball, I will try to answer your questions.

    What is dwell time?
    Answer: Long dwell feels like the ball stays on the paddle longer. Short dwell feels like the ball stays on the paddle shorter. Simple as that, no need for rocket science.
    Anecdote: I have played Pg-7 and Viscaria with same rubber. Pg-7 feels a long and soft contact. Viscaria feels a short and crispy contact.
    Test it yourself: get a viscaria or cheap clone or any so called "fast" carbon blade, compare it with soft all wood blade. Tell us what your conclusions are.
    More "scientific" method with controlled variables and quantifiable data: buy a robot arm, program a stroke similar to an average table tennis player, test with ball robot on variety of balls. Use high speed camera to calculate contact time on rubber. The caveat is that doing this will take thousands of dollars and dozens of hours to do.

    What is throw angle?
    Answer: with an average topspin (or loop for americans) stroke, does the ball launch high or low? You can also define against different incoming ball spin and different strokes (for example, it is easiest to test with a stationary, perpendicular oriented blade).
    Anecdote: I hit topspin with tensor rubber and unboosted hard Hadou against robot. Same stroke, tensor goes over the net, Hadou doesn't unless I tell myself to hit the ball at a much higher location over the net.
    Test it yourself: get a sheet of hard unboosted hadou and repeat my experiment, you will come to the same conclusion. In the extreme case, try with short or even long pips in the extreme example.
    Note: most modern rubbers have high throw as the modern game requires it, so it is hard to tell high throw rubber from high throw rubber, so in my opinion it is not as important point to try to quantify by feel.

    Thicker rubbers (sponge) are faster?
    Yes.
    Proof: try hitting a drive or topspin with a no sponge rubber. Now try with 1mm sponge, then 2mm sponge.
    Intuition: the sponge acts as a spring. More spring compression (thicker sponge), or stiffer spring (harder sponge), allows more max potential energy storage -> faster.

    Some rubbers have more control than others?
    The key point is that it is more control for 1. your technique 2. what you feel control is. Most people vaguely define it as if you hit a certain stroke, you are confident where the ball is going to go. If this is the case, you have "control". If you hit the ball and it generally doesn't go where you want it to, you don't have control.
    Some people factor in speed into control; faster setups would have less control (more speed vs spin means less arc, which means less error tolerance over the net), vice versa for slower setups (less speed for spin means more arc, which means less error tolerance over net (you can have higher clearance and be more confident the ball will still dip and land on the table).

    This is NO force or impulse that a T05 or Dignics can generate that I can't generate with the Rakza 7.
    I am not so certain about this claim. But I don't think we even care about force or impulse unless you are talking about what the player feels as a result. I think what you mean to say is a hit ball with a certain exit velocity and spin speed/orientation.

    Semantics aside though, this is still not strictly true, although in practice similar rubbers can produce the same shot if you adjust the technique properly. But as you get more and more different rubbers, this quickly becomes patently false: "There is no shot a sandpaper bat can generate that I can't generate with Razka 7".

    Fundamentally though, It is not helpful to think like that. People are not gods, we can't magically change our stroke to get the same performance from one rubber to another. Yes, you could use a slow non spinny setup and hit harder and brush the ball harder. But once you reach your physical limit, what do you do? For speed, you use booster, faster rubber, faster blade. For spin, you get slower rubber or slower blade that gives you more spin vs speed for your technique. There is a limit to human technique, we extend ourselves with different equipment.

    Pros and amateurs alike take years developing there technique. If they need a change in ball reaction, it is easier to change the equipment than the technique. (On the other hand, many times people go overboard and think equipment is the fix, whereas in reality it is there technique that needs improvement, not the equiptment.)

    Therefore the trajectories will be the same. It might take a slightly different strokes but both can generate the same trajectory.
    Sure, if you can do that different stroke.

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    Last edited by tabletennisdaily1; 09-16-2022 at 07:09 PM.

  20. pingpongpaddy is offline
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    #20

    I wish BB was more polite.
    I think he is trying to stir us up from our apathy
    I do find him interesting on most technical issues though I disagree occasionally:

    Thiicker sponges can be faster- thiis was explained to me regarding Mark V many years ago with the reason given that the sponge contained an inert gas in the bubbles which tended to leak away noticeably over the first couple of weeks of practice. This seemed to align with my practical experience with 1.5 Mark v on Bh and 2.0 on fh.
    I havent investigated for instance sponge on anti-loop rubber as to whether thicker sponges dampen speed with anti so my mind is open to that possibility.
    also cheaper rubbers seem to have a very dead yellow sponge which might well dampen wit increased thickness.

    However I firmly believe the forum is a much more interesting place with strong voices to challenge our complacency.
    One of the prices of freedom of speech is to experience a few uncomfortable challenges from time to time.
    When I was mod on DTTW more than ten years ago the Flame wars there and on MYTT OOAK were exhausting and time wasting for the mods and also. rarely made useful points,
    BB on the other hand is sincerely (but rudely) making genuine points.
    what is a forum worth that tries to stop that?



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