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    #1

    Penhold or lefty choppers

    Who are the penhold choppers thru history ? Male or female ?
    Who are lefty choppers ?

    Any level ...pro or amateur

    Videos would be nice


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    #2
    I don't think there were any world class penhold choppers. There is a video of 50 year old waldner playing a penhold chopper and they played a rather close set so the chopper must have been a pretty good player (even if waldner wasn't practicing a lot anymore and not taking that match very seriously) but I doubt he was a pro, probably a second or third division player in china (still probably 2400 us level or so)

    https://youtu.be/efUCEEkjv3w
    Last edited by Dominikk85; 09-17-2022 at 05:09 PM.

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    #3
    My chopper friend told me that even if the chopper might be left handed in life, they usually still use their right hand to play table tennis. Because the majority of table tennis players are right handed, it’s easier to play against them using the right hand, due to the natural ball trajectory of the forehand loop.

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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dominikk85
    I don't think there were any world class penhold choppers.
    I am sure there was a penhold chopper on Chinese team in early 70's. There may be a video of him. I think his name was Xie something (spell)

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa
    My chopper friend told me that even if the chopper might be left handed in life, they usually still use their right hand to play table tennis. Because the majority of table tennis players are right handed, it’s easier to play against them using the right hand, due to the natural ball trajectory of the forehand loop
    Unless one is quite ambidexterous . every player has a dominant hand. So, if one is left hand dominant, I don't think they are going to be able to change their playing hand especially at pro level just because most opponents are righthanded. That is crazy
    I can even understand players using right hand a lot (like even 25 to 33%) if they are lefties or vice versa if they are ambidexterous but I have not seen that either

    Also if what you are saying is true, should it not apply to all non-choppers as well and then all pros should be playing righthanded as well ?
    Last edited by Davis; 09-17-2022 at 05:34 PM.

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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Davis
    Unless one is quite ambidexterous . every player has a dominant hand. So, if one is left hand dominant, I don't think they are going to be able to change their playing hand especially at pro level just because most opponents are righthanded. That is crazy
    I can even understand players using right hand a lot (like even 25 to 33%) if they are lefties or vice versa if they are ambidexterous but I have not seen that either

    Also if what you are saying is true, should it not apply to all non-choppers as well and then all pros should be playing righthanded as well ?

    It’s not crazy, and you’re misunderstanding what I meant. Those players did not change their playing hand when they went pro, they started out playing as a kid with their right hand while they’re lefties in life. As for your other statement, obviously you’ve never played chopping or not very good at chopping. And it doesn’t apply to non choppers because if you’re a lefty attacker , you gain more than you lose. Also, don’t forget the other part of my comment, most players are right handed, so when they train they will most likely train against one. Or just put it simple, if you have a choice to have an easier time when playing against other players, would you take it? When they started out as a kid, they won’t have much say in how they train, the coach will tell them what to do
    based on their play style and personality. And if the kid is suitable for chopping, then they’ll just have to use their right hand. There’s a reason why there’s almost no left handed choppers.

    And science have shown that when a kid just started out training in sports, there’s not much difference which hand they use no matter they’re left or right handed, especially in something that’s mostly just repetition of movements.

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 09-17-2022 at 09:26 PM.

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    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    It’s not crazy, and you’re misunderstanding what I meant. Those players did not change their playing hand when they went pro, they started out playing as a kid with their right hand while they’re lefties in life. As for your other statement, obviously you’ve never played chopping or not very good at chopping. And it doesn’t apply to non choppers because if you’re a lefty attacker , you gain more than you lose. Also, don’t forget the other part of my comment, most players are right handed, so when they train they will most likely train against one. Or just put it simple, if you have a choice to have an easier time when playing against other players, would you take it? When they started out as a kid, they won’t have much say in how they train, the coach will tell them what to do
    based on their play style and personality. And if the kid is suitable for chopping, then they’ll just have to use their right hand. There’s a reason why there’s almost no left handed choppers.

    And science have shown that when a kid just started out training in sports, there’s not much difference which hand they use no matter they’re left or right handed, especially in something that’s mostly just repetition of movements.

    Not worth responding
    But it is true I have never played chopping (probably would never have been good) 😏

    I am going to start training chopping with my left hand now 🤩

    Last edited by Davis; 09-17-2022 at 10:52 PM.

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    #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Davis
    Not worth responding
    But it is true I have never played chopping (probably would never have been good)

    Yet you tried to, meaning you have nothing to say but to agree 😉

    either way, the fact is there’s almost no left handed choppers, so it doesn’t matter what the reason is, the result is the same.


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    #9
    There was a thread on this a few years ago, and the consensus was that being left handed is a great advantage for attackers (many more left handers in the top 100 than is reflected in the population), but essentially no left handed choppers in the pros. Tough to know exactly why.

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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    It’s not crazy, and you’re misunderstanding what I meant. Those players did not change their playing hand when they went pro, they started out playing as a kid with their right hand while they’re lefties in life.

    I think you misunderstood or want everyone to ignore what the OP said, which is, unless a player or person is truly ambidextrous they cannot play even 33% as well with their weakhand (righthand for this discussion) as they can with their stronghand (lefthand) especially at the professional level, regardless of how early they started with their weaker hand .Age is not the issue here.
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    And science have shown that when a kid just started out training in sports, there’s not much difference which hand they use no matter they’re left or right handed, especially in something that’s mostly just repetition of movements.


    If this cuckoo research was true, especially when applied to tabletennis, then every coach (especially in countries like China, Japan or Germany) should start training their kid students to play lefthanded 50% of the time and righthanded 50% of the time from their youth since righthand dominance or lefthand dominance for any player or even forehand dominance or backhand dominance in tabletennis (or any racket sport) means absolutely nothing, as they can be equal.

    Based on your research, non-ambidextrous football players can start training to shoot from either foot, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements
    Based on your research, non-ambidextrous American football quarterback can start training to throw from either hand, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements
    Based on your research, ALL (non-ambidextrous or ambidextrous) cricket (& baseball) players can start training to bat or bowl (or pitch) left-handed or right-handed from either hand, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements.

    Imagine John McEnroe with right-handed slice serve from deuce court to match his left-handed slice
    Imagine if Kareem Abdul Jabbar had trained to shoot a left handed skyhook just as well as his right.

    Also your claim that choppers switched to being right-handed just because incoming hook loops from a rightie bothers them is just equally as ludicrous

    As for me I will buy the statement that no lefty choppers exist, but not due to your goofball reasoning as to why. Do I know the reasons as to why ? No I don't at the moment but that in itself does not make your bizarre theories as to why, any less crazy



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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    Yet you tried to, meaning you have nothing to say but to agree 😉

    No He did not. He just said your ridiculous post is not worth responding . Also how the hell does it mean he agrees with your nonsense ?
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa


    either way, the fact is there’s almost no left handed choppers, so it doesn’t matter what the reason is, the result is the same.

    As for myself I am not disputing the fact that there may not be any lefty choppers but for sure it defintely is not due to your bizarre reasoning
    Last edited by Vladimir Pudding; 09-19-2022 at 05:03 PM.

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    #12
    I hadn't thought about or even been aware of this lack of left-handed choppers at the highest level before but I've worked out why:

    If a player, reasonably talented and hard working, plays as a lefty, they already have an advantage that makes their game uncomfortable to everyone else. Hence, no need for their coach to further diversify this player's game. Let the right-handed player who is fourth best in the young training squad start chopping instead, not the leftie who is already valuable as he is simply for being a left-handed player. (Same argument applies to penholders and chopping)
    Last edited by SofaChamp; 09-19-2022 at 06:18 PM.

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    #13
    One of the top 10 players in our club is a left handed long pimple chopper

    Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-A405FN met Tapatalk

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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Pudding
    I think you misunderstood or want everyone to ignore what the OP said, which is, unless a player or person is truly ambidextrous they cannot play even 33% as well with their weakhand (righthand for this discussion) as they can with their stronghand (lefthand) especially at the professional level, regardless of how early they started with their weaker hand .Age is not the issue here.


    If this cuckoo research was true, especially when applied to tabletennis, then every coach (especially in countries like China, Japan or Germany) should start training their kid students to play lefthanded 50% of the time and righthanded 50% of the time from their youth since righthand dominance or lefthand dominance for any player or even forehand dominance or backhand dominance in tabletennis (or any racket sport) means absolutely nothing, as they can be equal.

    Based on your research, non-ambidextrous football players can start training to shoot from either foot, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements
    Based on your research, non-ambidextrous American football quarterback can start training to throw from either hand, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements
    Based on your research, ALL (non-ambidextrous or ambidextrous) cricket (& baseball) players can start training to bat or bowl (or pitch) left-handed or right-handed from either hand, since according to your brilliant research, it is just a matter of mostly just repetition of movements.

    Imagine John McEnroe with right-handed slice serve from deuce court to match his left-handed slice
    Imagine if Kareem Abdul Jabbar had trained to shoot a left handed skyhook just as well as his right.

    Also your claim that choppers switched to being right-handed just because incoming hook loops from a rightie bothers them is just equally as ludicrous

    As for me I will buy the statement that no lefty choppers exist, but not due to your goofball reasoning as to why. Do I know the reasons as to why ? No I don't at the moment but that in itself does not make your bizarre theories as to why, any less crazy

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Pudding
    No He did not. He just said your ridiculous post is not worth responding . Also how the hell does it mean he agrees with your nonsense ?

    As for myself I am not disputing the fact that there may not be any lefty choppers but for sure it defintely is not due to your bizarre reasoning

    Yeah right lol looks like you didn’t even read my first post and started babbling, I’m just telling you what my chopper friend is saying, and you can go tell him that, here’s his Bilibili link if you want to comment there https://space.bilibili.com/344019857/

    btw, what you said about left right hand training is just what you “think”, but that’s just it, what you think. If you know any Chinese families from the 80s or 90s you’ll know that when those families get a kid that’s left handed, they’ll most likely force them to use their right hand for all activities, and gradually those kids will start using their right hand for certain things and left hand for other things, like eating with chopsticks with the right hand , but write with their left. And if you tell them to do the opposite they won’t be able to do it because they’ve been trained to do it the other way. Don’t ask me why, but it’s a fact. And you’ll probably gonna say that’s not the same as sports, well then I tell you that muscles are muscles, it’s all connected to the brain through the nerve system, if it’s trained with the proper technique then it’s the same. Also, the so called “strong” hand is strong because you’ve been using mostly that hand for tens of years, it strengthens the muscle, bones and the link to your brain. But for a kid say 3-4 years old, that’s not the case, and can be changed, e.g. left handed but have a stronger right hand.

    btw, this is the problem with current society, only the things you know is right, everything else is wrong.

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 09-19-2022 at 06:22 PM.

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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    Yeah right lol looks like you didn’t even read my first post and started babbling, I’m just telling you what my chopper friend is saying, and you can go tell him that, here’s his Bilibili link if you want to comment there https://space.bilibili.com/344019857/

    btw, what you said about left right hand training is just what you “think”, but that’s just it, what you think. If you know any Chinese families from the 80s or 90s you’ll know that when those families get a kid that’s left handed, they’ll most likely force them to use their right hand for all activities, and gradually those kids will start using their right hand for certain things and left hand for other things, like eating with chopsticks with the right hand , but write with their left. And if you tell them to do the opposite they won’t be able to do it because they’ve been trained to do it the other way. Don’t ask me why, but it’s a fact. And you’ll probably gonna say that’s not the same as sports, well then I tell you that muscles are muscles, it’s all connected to the brain through the nerve system, if it’s trained with the proper technique then it’s the same. Also, the so called “strong” hand is strong because you’ve been using mostly that hand for tens of years, it strengthens the muscle, bones and the link to your brain. But for a kid say 3-4 years old, that’s not the case, and can be changed, e.g. left handed but have a stronger right hand.

    btw, this is the problem with current society, only the things you know is right, everything else is wrong.

    Ok you win. I do not know about society but you totally convinced me . Whatever your chopper friend says & what yorur research says & therefore what you say is 200% true & I was TOTALLY wrong. You convinced me that any human, non-ambidextrous or not , can do anything (like using chopsticks or whatever) with either hand
    Theer is no dominant hand for any human . (Chinese or otherwise) . They are equal
    There is no dominant side (forehand or backhand) They are equally the same for amateurs or pros.
    Thank you for educating me and enlightening me. Afterall all humans are created equal.
    Thank you again
    Last edited by Vladimir Pudding; 09-19-2022 at 10:30 PM.

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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Pudding
    Ok you win. I do not know about society but you totally convinced me . Whatever your chopper friend says & what yorur research says & therefore what you say is 200% true & I was TOTALLY wrong. You convinced me that any human, non-ambidextrous or not , can do anything (like using chopsticks or whatever) with either hand
    Theer is no dominant hand for any human . (Chinese or otherwise) . They are equal
    There is no dominant side (forehand or backhand) They are equally the same for amateurs or pros.
    Thank you for educating me and enlightening me. Afterall all humans are created equal.
    Thank you again

    lol it's so laughable that people can still be so close minded.

    Also, it's not MY research, it's just research. And if in the future there are new researches that proves the old ones wrong, or out of date, then I'll quote the new research, but before then I'll stick with the current ones available. Science has always been about proving wrong, but if you're so set in your ways I guess no amount of science talk can heal your brain.


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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DukeGaGa

    lol it's so laughable that people can still be so close minded.

    Also, it's not MY research, it's just research. And if in the future there are new researches that proves the old ones wrong, or out of date, then I'll quote the new research, but before then I'll stick with the current ones available. Science has always been about proving wrong, but if you're so set in your ways I guess no amount of science talk can heal your brain.

    But I am agreeing with you 200% . What else do you want from me ? You were right & I was out of line Sorry

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    #18
    Just for information Xu Xin the former world number 1 is right handed and plays left handed.It was done purely because his coach told him to at a young age.

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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by passifid
    Just for information Xu Xin the former world number 1 is right handed and plays left handed.It was done purely because his coach told him to at a young age.

    Xun Xin is righthanded in what ? As as American football quarterback ? Not certainly in tabletennis. If he was he "would" be playing righthanded
    Or if he was ambidextrous he would be switching to play righthanded against a lefty opponent like a baseball switch hitter
    My guess is that his coach correctly identified that his lefthand was his dominant hand for tabletennis & I doubt very much it was just because or mostly because it would be more effective against lot of righthanded opponents. That is a crazy.claim

    BTW I have seen quite a few players in cricket who bat righthanded but bowl lefthanded that is because each is dominant for a different function. It does not mean they can EQUALLY bowl or bat just as well with ether hand. I also have seen left handed hockey players who shoot with their right hand in basketball etc.

    Last edited by Vladimir Pudding; 09-20-2022 at 03:59 PM.

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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir Pudding

    Xun Xin is righthanded in what ? As as American football quarterback ? Not certainly in tabletennis. If he was he "would" be playing righthanded
    Or if he was ambidextrous he would be switching to play righthanded against a lefty opponent like a baseball switch hitter
    My guess is that his coach correctly identified that his lefthand was his dominant hand for tabletennis & I doubt very much it was just because or mostly because it would be more effective against lot of righthanded opponents. That is a crazy. claim

    Oh, so now you’re saying that the dominant hand can change for depending on the different things one does, wow. So I’m using my left hand to hold a cup, I’m a lefty, oh wait I’m using my right hand to use a knife, I’m righty again, but wait I’m playing the piano, am I lefty or righty? 🤣 Making up things to fit your theory, and ignoring facts, common sense and logic, no wonder you’re always right, how nice.

    Last edited by DukeGaGa; 09-20-2022 at 03:56 PM.

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