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  1. Wrighty67 is offline
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    #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    Energy Cell is optimized for spin performance and creates a slightly different feeling than the regular Rasanter sponge, although this would only be noticeable when comparing R47 and R48 with the same nominal sponge hardness of 47,5 degrees. Catapult for me is a side effect, and speed - well, I couldn´t really tell if a topspin flies faster with R48 than R47...

    What´s really interesting is what I wrote above about the varying degrees of the "plays softer" effect. This is very probably caused by the different cell-wall thicknesses. R53 will be surprisingly soft for such a hard sponge, but of course not a soft rubber as such. I can only compare it to GEWO Super Select 53, which is way harder overall. Evolution MX-D also feels a little softer than you´d expect, but it is not the direct equivalent, those new ESN rubbers are different.

    R48 also feels a little softer than R47, but with all the different topsheets of the current rubbers you will doubtlessly find other 47,5 degree rubbers that feel softer. Again, Evolution gives a good example with EL-D, but that feels a lot softer than R48.

    R45 is just an amazing rubber on its own. The first sheets I had almost rivalled R48 in speed and spin performance. That is why if someone is looking for a nicely controllable 45 degree rubber I´d recommend trying Hexer Grip. R45 is a power package that happens to be a little on the softer side. Again, and still not meant for a direct comparison, only in overall feeling and softness, the new FX-D is much softer.

    And if you ask, I´d take any Energy Cell Rasanter over any Evolution "D" of corresponding sponge hardness, but that is a personal thing.

    The other rubber I have found to play softer than it is rated, much like R53, is K3 which I have settled on and slightly prefer to R53.


  2. deanrazorbak is offline
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    #22
    R48 brings you higher curve with a softer feeling which means safety for your loop. R47 is more linear and might get some of your loops in the net. If you have played hard and sticky rubbers before then R47 would be suitable. Otherwise R48 all the way. I find the rubber really good, might consider alternating between R48 and Ten05 for BH.

  3. Metaxa is offline
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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    ULTRAMAX is a THICKNESS made possible by thin topsheets. Other manufacturers name their thickest sponges MAX+ (Donic, Joola) or MaXXimum (GEWO), some didn´t bother while nonetheless having the same concept manufactured.
    The CONCEPT of even thicker sponges by using thinner topsheets was first introduced by ANDRO, who even scrapped the complete Rasant series for the Rasanter series. The concept however is not exclusive to ANDRO, and DONIC swiftly followed (as has nearly anybody else, to some extent) with BLUESTORM.

    ENERGY CELL is a different sponge TECHNOLOGY. It is available in ULTRAMAX thickness also. The topsheet of the ENERGY CELL R Rasanter rubbers is identical to the other R Rasanter.
    Then they have to change there own website: https://www.andro.de/en/rubbers thereafter > Rasanter and open the explanation please.


    PS: why i can not see my own picture that i posted.
    Last edited by Metaxa; 09-24-2022 at 01:49 PM.

  4. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaxa
    Then they have to change there own website: https://www.andro.de/en/rubbersPS: why i can not see my own picture that i posted.

    Not sure why it does not show. But if you click reply on your post, you can see the photo in the reply box.

    Also, if you hit reply on my post, you will see it as well. But it will not appear once you post. Just like the photo can't be seen in my post.

    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-24-2022 at 02:40 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  5. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

    Not sure why it does not show. But if you click reply on your post, you can see the photo in the reply box.

    Also, if you hit reply on my post, you will see it as well. But it will not appear once you post. Just like the photo can't be seen in my post.

    I will try one more thing:


    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaxa
    Then they have to change there own website: https://www.andro.de/en/rubbers thereafter > Rasanter and open the explanation please.


    PS: why i can not see my own picture that i posted.
    To post pictures, use the @ADD FILES.. button on the left above the edit-box for you post.

    Why the picture is only displayed when we reply to your post, but not displayed when your post is rendered to us in the thread - I don't know :-)



  7. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #27
    Is this energy cell technology specific to andro? Do any other companies have the same esn technology?

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Is this energy cell technology specific to andro? Do any other companies have the same esn technology?

    At the end of the day it feels just the same. Which means making the foam springy


  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by deanrazorbak

    At the end of the day it feels just the same. Which means making the foam springy

    I guess, everyone feels things differently. But to me, the sponge on the R48 feels very different than any of the other ESN sponges I have tried.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  10. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #30
    If ESN owns the technology, it seems it would be very straightforward to democratize the technology to any brand. I always wonder why other brands don't get the latest technology. I think somebody said Andro or Donic are actually part of the same company as ESN? Not sure which one. But it makes sense that they would be most up to date with ESN technology. So it kinda makes sense that Andro has the ultramax sponge technology as well as energy cell.

    But why don't the other brands have up to date ESN technology? Evolution came out in 2012 I think, and Fastarc was similar era.

  11. Metaxa is offline
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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl

    Not sure why it does not show. But if you click reply on your post, you can see the photo in the reply box.

    Also, if you hit reply on my post, you will see it as well. But it will not appear once you post. Just like the photo can't be seen in my post.

    Yes indeed, i can see it now on yours and my own one when i replay on the posts.

    The Following User Likes Metaxa's Post:

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  12. Metaxa is offline
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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    To post pictures, use the @ADD FILES.. button on the left above the edit-box for you post.

    Why the picture is only displayed when we reply to your post, but not displayed when your post is rendered to us in the thread - I don't know :-)

    Thank you very much, i will try this one next time. Normally I use always the picture button for insert a picture.

  13. Airoc is offline
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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    I think somebody said Andro or Donic are actually part of the same company as ESN?
    The founder of DONIC, Doctor Georg Nicklas, is also the founder of ESN. Historically, you could see a connection, technically I am not so sure that Nicklas has anything to do with the current DONIC managament.

    As for Energy Cell, I am pretty sure that other companies have or will have something similar or identical.
    It is good that the "All ESN rubbers are the same" claims made by so many are so obviously not true, but one wouldn´t deny certain similarities.
    By now, with ENERGY CELL being on the market for a while, other companies may well have it, too - yet under a different name or no name at all. They would then speak of a "new sponge with innovative cell structure" or whatever,

  14. Airoc is offline
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    #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    that Andro has the ultramax sponge technology
    Everybody has access to that, ULTRAMAX is just ANDRO´s name for it.

    It should be fairly easy to grasp: Most Rasanter rubbers are available in 1.7 mm, 2.0 mm and ULTRAMAX (some only 2.0 mm and ULTRAMAX) - another name for the MAX of yore because the previously available MAX (mostly 2,1 or 2,2 mm) is now even more MAXimized (2,3 mm).

    DONIC made all BLUESTORM rubbers like that (MAX+)
    Take a look at BLUEFIRE M1 being available in 2.0 and MAX vs. BLUESTORM Z1 coming in 1.9, 2.1 and MAX+

    JOOLA has it for DYNARYZ and RHYZER (Max+), but not RHYZM which came before them.
    GEWO has it on NEXXUS rubbers (MAXXXimum), although for some reasons on the CONTRA (head company) website most NEXXUS rubbers are available in that sponge thickness, while for the SUPER SELECT they state 2.2 mm.

    Others may or may not have just stuck with the term MAX.
    TIBHAR chose not to introduce it on a broad basis, especially not for the EVOLUTION series. But the call a thin topsheet in favour of a thicker sponge SSP technology on AURUS Prime and Select.

    What´s probably exclusive to ANDRO is the name.
    Last edited by Airoc; 09-25-2022 at 08:49 AM.

  15. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Airoc
    The founder of DONIC, Doctor Georg Nicklas, is also the founder of ESN. Historically, you could see a connection, technically I am not so sure that Nicklas has anything to do with the current DONIC managament.

    As for Energy Cell, I am pretty sure that other companies have or will have something similar or identical.
    It is good that the "All ESN rubbers are the same" claims made by so many are so obviously not true, but one wouldn´t deny certain similarities.
    By now, with ENERGY CELL being on the market for a while, other companies may well have it, too - yet under a different name or no name at all. They would then speak of a "new sponge with innovative cell structure" or whatever,

    Which rubbers might have it? I guess the rubber that sounds most similar to Rasanter is the Bluestorm series. Does that have energy cell? or is it more similar to the original R47 version?

    Or do Nexxus or Dynaryz have Energy cell?

    Last edited by Michael Zhuang; 09-25-2022 at 08:40 AM.

  16. Airoc is offline
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang

    Which rubbers might have it? I guess the rubber that sounds most similar to Rasanter is the Bluestorm series. Does that have energy cell? or is it more similar to the original R47 version?

    Or do Nexxus or Dynaryz have Energy cell

    The Bluestorm rubbers were already on the market when ANDRO introduced Energy Cell, except for the new PRO and PRO AM.
    Same for Nexxus.
    TIBHAR´s new Red Energy Sponge is probably the closest candidate for the technology, not the corresponding maximum thickness.
    But those who could tell for sure will not do so

    In my opinion, the Energy Cell Rasanters offer the best overall set-up of properties in their respective fields. Not as hard as Super Select, not as soft and bouncy as Dynaryz ACC, the 45 degree version a real power package, and so on. BUT I also think R47 as a more direct comparison is a better rubber than Nexxus 48 or Rhyzer 48, yet that is all a matter of personal preference.

    One thing though is for sure: If you want ENERGY CELL, buy Rasanter. Everything else comes down to speculation, comparison of release dates, and comparison of personal experience.

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  17. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #37
    https://www.donic.com/donic/en/rubbe...ober-2022?c=33

    I just was browsing, and this new rubber Donic Bluestar sounds like Energy Cell. With a 52.5 degree sponge, is this literally just a Donic branded C53?

  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    https://www.donic.com/donic/en/rubbe...ober-2022?c=33

    I just was browsing, and this new rubber Donic Bluestar sounds like Energy Cell. With a 52.5 degree sponge, is this literally just a Donic branded C53?

    The description says the Donic sponge has small pores. The Rasanter R48 on my blade....the pores of the sponge could be called a lot of things but not small.

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  19. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #39
    Ah ok. Optimized Energy Sponge sounded a lot like Andro's Energy Cell. Also they mention dampening, which sounds like the soft effect you mentioned.

  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Ah ok. Optimized Energy Sponge sounded a lot like Andro's Energy Cell. Also they mention dampening, which sounds like the soft effect you mentioned.
    Another thing you should understand, many of the rubbers made at the ESN factory have similarities, but none of them are the same. They all have slightly different qualities. Part of this is because the rubbers are not designed by ESN. They are designed by the R&D teams of each separate company. So, if Andro designed a specific way of making a sponge and got ESN to produce that, ESN can't just give the sponge and the plans that lead to that sponge to other companies. But other companies may figure out a different or similar way to get similar results.

    So, that sponge may have some similar qualities to the Andro sponge even if it is different. And Donic may have figured out their own way to get some of those qualities that the Andro sponge has, even if they are a little different.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

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