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  1. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #1

    What booster does ESN use on their rubbers?

    Everybody says ESN rubbers are heavily boosted in the factory.

    Does anybody know what booster they use in the factory? Is it something like Falco? or their own mixture?

    If their rubbers are boosted, why don't they curl up in the package?

  2. lodro is offline
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    #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Everybody says ESN rubbers are heavily boosted in the factory.

    Does anybody know what booster they use in the factory? Is it something like Falco? or their own mixture?

    If their rubbers are boosted, why don't they curl up in the package?

    who exactly is """EVERYBODY """ ????

    I do not believe they boost the sponge after it is made, I believe the boosting is part of the mixture itself.
    They might throw a handful of baking powder into the mix before they roll it out into a sheet.

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    #3
    For example the TT11 description:

    "The Hybrid K3 version is rubber for the professional top players. It is a combination of a slightly sticky topsheet and a highly boosted hard sponge."

  4. lodro is offline
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    For example the TT11 description:

    "The Hybrid K3 version is rubber for the professional top players. It is a combination of a slightly sticky topsheet and a highly boosted hard sponge."

    I do not believe they boost the sponge after it is made, I believe the boosting is part of the mixture itself.
    They might throw a handful of baking powder into the mix before they roll it out into a sheet.

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    #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Zhuang
    Everybody says ESN rubbers are heavily boosted in the factory.

    Does anybody know what booster they use in the factory? Is it something like Falco? or their own mixture?

    If their rubbers are boosted, why don't they curl up in the package?

    Without explicitly knowing for sure, I agree with @lodro and my assumption has always been that the rubber mixture or the process of making the rubber/sponge combo is one that includes the "boosting" element.

    Quite what that involves, I don't know, but I very much doubt they are applying booster to finished rubbers.......

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    #6
    I think there is something going on with both topsheet and sponge. If it were only done to the sponge, then the rubber would curl towards the sponge as the tuning dissipates, instead for the most part the rubbers shrink overall and remain flat.
    Go crazy go stupid

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #7
    One thing for sure, it is not a booster you can buy. But I agree with Lodro and NDH.

    Something to understand is, the chemicals applied throughout the process of making the topsheet and sponge, any of them could be part of what causes that effect that (from the factory) is usually called TUNING and NOT BOOSTING.

    It should also be noted that, the chemicals they use to attach the topsheet to the sponge could also contain some of the properties that cause that TUNING effect that most ESN rubbers come with.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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    #8
    There is something in the sponge and topsheet. This booster wrinkle my ptotector sheet and leave an oily residue. It's very powerfull. I think this chemical boost the sponge and soften the topsheet, increasing the spin and speed at the same time.

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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Doum
    There is something in the sponge and topsheet. This booster wrinkle my ptotector sheet and leave an oily residue. It's very powerfull. I think this chemical boost the sponge and soften the topsheet, increasing the spin and speed at the same time.

    What rubbers is this referring to?


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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    What rubbers is this referring to?

    Cornilleau Target Pro XD


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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Doum

    Cornilleau Target Pro XD

    OK, I can't speak for that rubber, but I can for the 2 most "common" Euro ESN rubbers (Butterfly and Tibhar).

    Neither of those brand leave any form of residue or anything - They just look like normal rubbers.

    People say they can "smell" the boost/tuning from the factory, but I'd say this would only be the equipment junkies.

    Most people wouldn't have a clue.


  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    OK, I can't speak for that rubber, but I can for the 2 most "common" Euro ESN rubbers (Butterfly and Tibhar).

    Just a clarification: ESN is where a lot of rubbers are made. Many of them from European companies.

    Butterfly rubbers are not made in the ESN factory and are not made by ESN. Butterfly has their own factory where Butterfly rubbers are made.

    But Tibhar rubbers like the Evolution series (ie MX-P) are made by ESN.

    The rubbers may have some similar qualities. But they are made by different processes. Some of this is also why the performance on Butterfly rubbers is so different than rubbers made at the ESN factory and why Butterfly rubbers seem to hold their performance for a notable amount more playing time than ESN rubbers do.

    My experience with MX-P and FX-P is that, after about 3 weeks to a month of use, those rubbers have this drop off in how alive the rubber feels (when the tuning effect wears off). They are still good rubbers after the tuning effect wears off. I personally like them better after. But in my experience of using Butterfly rubbers, I did not feel any such drop off in the feeling of aliveness happens for a T05 or T05fx and I most definitely felt it with Evolution rubbers and Rasanter rubbers (to add another example of a rubber that came from the ESN factory).

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  13. NDH is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Just a clarification: ESN is where a lot of rubbers are made. Many of them from European companies.

    Butterfly rubbers are not made in the ESN factory and are not made by ESN. Butterfly has their own factory where Butterfly rubbers are made.

    But Tibhar rubbers like the Evolution series (ie MX-P) are made by ESN.

    The rubbers may have some similar qualities. But they are made by different processes. Some of this is also why the performance on Butterfly rubbers is so different than rubbers made at the ESN factory and why Butterfly rubbers seem to hold their performance for a notable amount more playing time than ESN rubbers do.

    My experience with MX-P and FX-P is that, after about 3 weeks to a month of use, those rubbers have this drop off in how alive the rubber feels (when the tuning effect wears off). They are still good rubbers after the tuning effect wears off. I personally like them better after. But in my experience of using Butterfly rubbers, I did not feel any such drop off in the feeling of aliveness happens for a T05 or T05fx and I most definitely felt it with Evolution rubbers and Rasanter rubbers (to add another example of a rubber that came from the ESN factory).

    Sorry, I did know that but force of habit in referring to "Euro" rubbers as "ESN".

    The very few people IRL I've spoken to about it, always seem to refer to "Euro" rubbers as ESN (Butterfly included) - But of course, you are very right!

    And yes, my short lived experiment with MX-S and MX-P were solely down to how quickly the rubber changed properties.

    I'd probably have stayed with them if they were half the price, but they aren't too far off Butterfly pricing, and nothing keeps it's longevity like a Butterfly rubber!

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  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by NDH

    I'd probably have stayed with them if they were half the price, but they aren't too far off Butterfly pricing, and nothing keeps it's longevity like a Butterfly rubber!

    I knew you knew and were just simplifying. And yes, Butterfly rubbers just last longer than any other rubbers with that kind of lively elastic sponge. This is some of why.

    To me, it also seems, somehow, that the rubber and sponge on those ESN rubbers break down and degrade much faster than Butterfly rubbers. Perhaps a photo is worth many more words:





    The two Butterfly rubbers are from back in 2011 and I really used them for quite a long time. You can see they are beat up. But you can see that the kind of deterioration I show from the two MX-P rubbers did not happen to the Butterfly rubbers. The MX-P rubbers are from 2017 and were actually used for a shorter period of time than the Butterfly rubbers.

    On the MX-P rubbers, the sponge has collapsed and hardened. The rubber has hardened, distorted and cracked. It is hard as a rock. The spots where that happened correspond (to some extent) to where my thumb (black rubber) and index finger (red rubber) would have been in contact with the topsheet. So, oils from my hands played a part in that rubber breakdown. But.....I have not had that happen with any Butterfly rubber.

    The quality of the rubber is very different and will last much longer.
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  15. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #15
    What I showed above does not change the fact that some ESN rubbers play very well when they are new and may still play very well after they are no longer new. It just shows something about the long term effects of oxidation and how the rubber molecules break down and how that is different in ESN rubbers than it is in Butterfly rubbers.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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    #16
    One of the guys at the club showed me once a Gewo Nexxus he had and he used (I think revolution) booster on it and his rubbers also melted in a similar way as those MX-Ps. For him it happened after a few weeks too and similarly like yours where he presses his finger on the rubber. The rubber turned into goo and it was sticky, it could lift the ball.

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  17. Michael Zhuang is offline
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    #17
    I was curious if I could re-create the ESN boosted effect by boosting a Chinese-made elastic-type rubber. So I just put 2 layers of booster on a sheet of $16 Loki T3 (untacky, fast rubber).

    I tested this T3 rubber against MXP, R47, and Tenergy 64 today. In terms of speed and bounciness, I think its about the same. In a blind test, I wouldn't know that it was a $16 rubber, and I would just regard it as a peer of the other 3 rubbers.

    Anybody else try boosting these kinds of rubbers to try to re-create ESN rubbers? Maybe next time I will test the boosting on a few more $15 rubbers.

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    #18
    NO BOOSTER AT ALL.
    Boosters incorprated inside the ESN rubbers? Dont make my booots laugh, it is all a pure fib.
    Instead of oil treatment, ESN now using the [club25260231|@Patent] of 1965, to get the sponge materials bouncy like hell.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...number=3241834
    _____________
    BE HAPPY.

  19. lodro is offline
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by igorponger
    NO BOOSTER AT ALL.
    Boosters incorprated inside the ESN rubbers? Dont make my booots laugh, it is all a pure fib.
    Instead of oil treatment, ESN now using the [club25260231|@Patent] of 1965, to get the sponge materials bouncy like hell.

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...number=3241834
    _____________
    BE HAPPY.

    how can we be happy if you give us url websites that need at least 17 university degrees to get anything happening. 😁
    why can't you just keep it simple , like saying :""they throw a handful of baking soda into the mix""" to create bigger bubbles in the sponge 😂


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    #20
    https://patentimages.storage.googlea.../US3241834.pdf
    Please find a thorough description of how TENSOR rubber is made.
    You can see no liquid booster is there.
    ________
    @Giant Dragon was able to reproduce this formulation as well.

    be happy.

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