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  1. brokenball is offline
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    #81
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy

    dude have you ever played at a competitive level with proper technique with soft and hard rubbers? Hard rubbers DO need more force, F=k*x does not explain everything especially in a dynamic not static phenomenon like lifting underspin. If you are trying to use physics on me, at least use it correctly. Im not gonna bother answering again cause anyone with physics and dynamics of ball movement understanding, and i dont mean the laws of physics, knows what im talking about.

    And what part did you have a problem with? You attack without being specific. What did I say that is wrong? People want to know!
    I never said F=k*x explains everything but it is an important part of any simulation that has to do with contact between the ball and rubber.
    Now why do hard rubbers need more force? More force to do what? Be specific. Anybody can make stuff up and make bogus claims.

  2. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #82
    I can't believe you guys are so childish that you are arguing about a post that was made in 2013 without even blinking.

    I guess some people just like to argue and say they are right. So silly.

    I want to post one of those "someone is wrong on the internet" memes, but it isn't worth my time.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
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    #83
    Soft vs hard... a timeless battle, older and more violent than the Hatfield and mccoys!

  4. brokenball is offline
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    #84
    Quote Originally Posted by LordPippington
    Soft vs hard... a timeless battle, older and more violent than the Hatfield and mccoys!
    It shouldn't be timeless. That is the problem. There is no equation for speed after impact that involves hard or soft rubber. It is elasticity that matters as far as performance goes. Hard and soft rubbers can have the same elasticity so whether you like hard or soft rubbers rubbers is a preference. Just know there is such a thing as too hard or too soft.

  5. TTFrenzy is offline
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    #85
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    And what part did you have a problem with? You attack without being specific. What did I say that is wrong? People want to know!
    I never said F=k*x explains everything but it is an important part of any simulation that has to do with contact between the ball and rubber.
    Now why do hard rubbers need more force? More force to do what? Be specific. Anybody can make stuff up and make bogus claims.

    Well if u read my post carefully I dont make nor bogus neither claims i stated proven facts. I didnt see any valid argument of yours. Hard rubber needs harder stroke and excellent timing if u want to compress the rubber. Show me a video of you playing please . I want to know who am i talking too. And try to have some courtesy next time you criticize someone instead of insulting them especially when u lack tt basics understanding. Jesus effing Christ i got on the forum after all those years for 5 minutes and still some ignorant usa noob actually achieved to piss me off with his stupidity and ignorance.

    Last edited by TTFrenzy; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:11 PM.
    I suck real bad so I train to suck less

  6. brokenball is offline
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    #86
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    [p]Well if u read my post carefully I dont make nor bogus neither claims i stated proven facts. I didnt see any valid argument of yours. Hard rubber needs harder stroke and excellent timing if u want to compress the rubber. Show me a video of you playing please . I want to know who am i talking too. And try to have some courtesy next time you criticize someone instead of insulting them especially when u lack tt basics understanding. Jesus effing Christ i got on the forum after all those years for 5 minutes and still some ignorant usa noob actually achieved to piss me off with his stupidity and ignorance.
    You still haven't pointed out what I said is bogus. This is what I call hit and run posting. I wasn't making an argument. I was challenging what you said about hard rubbers needing more force. Your original statement didn't have the qualifier about compressing the rubber. The question I had but didn't state was more force to do what? Hit the ball faster?

    I have already posted who your are talking to, a real engineer, not some wannabe. WTFRU? A never will be?
    So far you have not impressed me with your ability to get facts wrong.

    These quotes are from post #7
    Quote Originally Posted by ttfrenczy
    1)Dwell time (mostly related to spin but in soft rubbers it creates speed also)
    NO! False! Show us an equation where the speed is computed using dwell time1

    Quote Originally Posted by ttfrenzy
    Hard springs when compared to softer ones when fully compressed produce more force thus more acceleration (F= K X A , Newton's law) thus more speed, to the object that compresses them. K is the modulus of elasticity of the spring=sponge, F the Force , A fore acceleration
    That is Hooke's law. Not Newton's law. K is a spring constant, not the modulus of elasticity.
    A spring constant has units of force/distance. Elasticicity is unitless.
    Modulus of elasticity is defined here.
    https://byjus.com/jee/modulus-of-elasticity/
    I am very familiar with the bulk modulus of fluids and Young's modulus from stress vs strain testing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttfrenzy
    When the sponge is hard you need strong hitters to manage to compress the sponge at its full in order to take full advantage of its abilities !
    It is the speed of contact. Strength has little to do with it. a weight lifter will not do better than some small fast high school girl if she can accelerate the paddle to the same speed or faster. I can post the equation that does matter. It doesn't involve strength.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttfrenzy
    A heavy underspin if lifted with a small error in technique using a soft rubber, maybe will not be lifted (or lifted with less pace & arc) with a hard rubber
    Why? You were right in the rest of your statement that it is about technique not how hard or soft the rubber is. Once you have the technique down it doesn't make much difference how hard or soft the rubber is within reason. I have said what the technique is many times in the past. Can you explain it? I doubt it.

  7. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #87
    Let the games begin. This is what happens when two people troll each other back and forth.

    Perhaps neither of them intend to troll. But both are doing it.

    [Addition:] Well....on second thought, the games already have started. So, I guess, as long as they keep things civil, I am letting them continue.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:10 PM.
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  8. MartyC is offline
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    #88


    From the begining I was in the past played with soft rubbers. In last time I played with Big Dipper H40.Today I play with Big Dipper H38. All has advantages and disadvantages. \but in fore hand side i prefer with plastic ball rubber more then 45 ESN degree.
    New bigger and heavier ball is the reason for my opinion.
    Dipper H40 against Dipper H38 is better in short game , easier rotating by shots with big force.H38 is easier for allround play , for shots with smaller force.

    VODAK Diolen "MartyC" custom FL , Yinhe Big Dipper H38 max , Dr. Neubauer K.O. 1,3mm

  9. brokenball is offline
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    #89
    I made it clear in post #84 that this debate should end.
    I am not trolling anybody. I am fact checking and challenging opinions. I can post links to back up my statments.
    ttfrenzy hasn't refuted anything I have written or posted links to.
    USDC, you should tell ttfrenzy to quit before he embarrasses himself further.


  10. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #90
    BB, I have made it clear, as far as I am concerned, you both have sort of embarrassed yourselves by behaving like ill tempered children. So.....you can think yourself justified all you want. But your goal was to argue with someone. Otherwise, your presentation would be different. But this is nothing new. You like to fish people into arguments.

    You do this over and over again.

    Why not just explain the details without quoting someone or trying to insult someone: instead of quoting a post that is 8 years old and basically saying everything he said is wrong, you could simply post good information without EVER REFERRING to whomever you think posted "incorrect" information: JUST POST THE STUFF THAT IS GOOD INFORMATION.

    Your mode of operation is still about making it so someone else is wrong. And this is why so many people get angry with you. I don't personally care if you are right or wrong. I do know that most of the time, you frame arguments in a way so that you cannot be wrong. But it does not change that your behavior is terrible, like a spoiled child. And therefore, you create enemies while you think you are proving people wrong.

    You are not. You are talking past people; setting up a scenario where you can only be right even when it is not quite what the person you are arguing with was talking about. And then you tell them to prove what they are saying and/or to prove you wrong.

    It is an old game. And it is tired. I do really which you would just grow up though and stop acting like such an angry, spoiled 8 year old.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:45 AM.
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  11. brokenball is offline
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    #91
    Don't facts matter anymore?
    Why not just explain the details without quoting someone or trying to insult someone:
    I didn't insult anybody. I don't need too. They embarrass themselves.

    Why do you let ttfrenzy call me a noob when you know it isn't true?
    JUST POST THE STUFF THAT IS GOOD INFORMATION.
    I said there is no need for this to be an everlasting debate. There is too soft and too hard and the optimal is somewhere in between.
    Your mode of operation is still about making it so someone else is wrong.
    If someone is wrong I point it out. I have given likes to people that say something right even if they have said something wrong in the past. I don't make this personal until they attack me. Then I fact check them forever. Yes, ttfrenzy, Nextleve, and Yogu are on that list. However, I will still give likes if they are right. ttfrenzy is wrong as I pointed out above. Should wrong be accepted as right?
    And this is why so many people get angry with you.
    They get angry with me because I point out when they are wrong. If they persist I rub their noses in it. Yes, I can see why they are angry but they are still wrong. They should learn and deal with it.
    I don't personally care if you are right or wrong.
    This is a problem. You should know. The moderators should know.
    [quote]
    I do know that most of the time, you frame arguments in a way so that you cannot be wrong.
    [/quote[
    You give me too much credit. I don't frame anything. If the other person is wrong, he his wrong. I can find links to back up my argument.

    But it does not change that your behavior is terrible, like a spoiled child.
    So seeking the truth and refuting false information is bad?
    And therefore, you create enemies while you think you are proving people wrong.
    Why do you care about enemies of the truth?
    No one has refuted what I have written. They, you, may not like it but still, no one has refuted what I have written.
    I can understand you don't like your noses rubbed in it.

    USDC, you made a comment about why people can't accept the obvious. I agree. I can state the answer but you, the forum, will not like it.

    I have already deemed mytt and OOAK a lost cause because of HaggisV.
    Last edited by brokenball; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:55 AM.

  12. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #92
    I am asking you to post the good content and to ignore people who you feel are wrong. Just post the facts as you see them and people will look at you differently over time.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:27 AM.
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  13. TTFrenzy is offline
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    #93
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    I made it clear in post #84 that this debate should end.
    I am not trolling anybody. I am fact checking and challenging opinions. I can post links to back up my statments.
    ttfrenzy hasn't refuted anything I have written or posted links to.
    USDC, you should tell ttfrenzy to quit before he embarrasses himself further.

    Dude show us a video of you playing. Then maybe i will sit down and teach you about how you can apply physics to TT properly. Till then ur a confused little noob who insists on not taking other people's arguements into consideration when they are right in front of you . Maybe I should call you a blind noob

    I charge 50$ per hour in tomy training private lessons. But you can always watch YT videos with emrathitch or whatever his name is 🥰🥰🥰🤣🤣🤣🤣🤗🤗😝😝

    I suck real bad so I train to suck less

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    #94
    What the hell...
    It's a personal preference. Even Butterfly who are recently talking about overpowering evolution grade 0.8% and 1.6% differences in power (not my measurement) are giving normal Tenergy and the FX versions the same stats. Have you ever wondered why?
    I'm pretty sure that I read a lot of comments people saying FX series produces less spin. I actually believe them. With their technique it probably does. But I've seen players switch from FX to T19 and they didn't get 0.8% power upgrade, I would say they got a spin and speed downgrade with it and a lot of headache.
    So is Butterfly lying? Maybe, but probably their technique is already used to the FX hardness and with that they can produce more speed and spin with those.You all should more focus on yourself and your own play rather than the rubber hardness.

    If anything softer rubbers can catch or bite the ball easier which some people prefer, but even that has determents in actual match play.If someone is after a lower weight racket softer rubbers can help since they tend to be lighter all across the board, and it will not just make your racket lighter but less head heavy.
    Last edited by Zwill; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:18 AM.

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    #95
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    I am asking you to post the good content and to ignore people who you feel are wrong. Just post the facts as you see them and people will look at you differently over time.
    Feel? This is not about feelings. Feelings are for the woke people.
    Challenging the bad content is good content.
    Why are you addressing me instead of those that post bad content?

    USDC, did you see post #93?
    You have a double standard.

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    #96
    BB, start a thread where you enumerate all the TT myths, 1 by 1, and debunk them there. Too much noise is contra-productive to your goal.

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    #97
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy

    Dude show us a video of you playing. Then maybe i will sit down and teach you about how you can apply physics to TT properly. Till then ur a confused little noob who insists on not taking other people's arguements into consideration when they are right in front of you . Maybe I should call you a blind noob

    I charge 50$ per hour in tomy training private lessons. But you can always watch YT videos with emrathitch or whatever his name is 🥰🥰🥰🤣🤣🤣🤣🤗🤗😝😝

    If you want to see how I play. Go fish. I have posted ideos me playing before and recently.
    How I play has nothing to do with the bad info you have posted.
    Only $50/hr? You will never catch up to me at that rate and I am retired.
    This has nothing to do with how well we play either it is an indicator of our relative worth to other people.





  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #98
    Quote Originally Posted by brokenball
    Feel? This is not about feelings. Feelings are for the woke people.

    Peter, the reason this has to do with that YOU FEEL people are wrong is, many times I have seen you misunderstand what someone said, or take quotes from them out of context and argue against something they were not actually trying to say.

    Sometimes people on this forum are not native English speaking people. And you try and punish them for not having the language skills.

    So, yes, YOU FEEL they are wrong without having tried to understand what they are actually trying to say. And then you end up in flame wars.

    And yes, I do see TTFenzy called you a noob. It also is not right for him to call you names. But as long as we are clear, a noob is someone who is new to something. So, he is basically saying you are a beginner at TT. Post video. Then he can see how you play. Don't post the footage of you playing Penhold. It does make you look a bit like a beginner. But there is no harm in letting people see how you play.

    TTFrenzy, NO MORE CALLING PEOPLE NAMES.

    NOW, AGAIN, PETER, I AM ASKING YOU TO IGNORE WHEN YOU THINK SOMEONE IS WRONG, AND SIMPLY POST THE CONTENT THAT IS ACTUALLY CORRECT. YOU WILL SEE, PEOPLE WILL START SEEING YOU DIFFERENTLY IF YOU DO. I

    f you don't, people will continue to dislike you because of how badly you behave when you want to show YOU ARE RIGHT. And it is rare that you are not correct when you say you are correct. But often you are not actually talking about the same thing as the person you appear to be arguing with. You just bait them into arguing with you when you have set terms that make it impossible for you to be anything but right.

    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 3 Weeks Ago at 12:39 PM.
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  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #99
    Quote Originally Posted by latej
    BB, start a thread where you enumerate all the TT myths, 1 by 1, and debunk them there. Too much noise is contra-productive to your goal.
    He has already done this as pnachtwey. It was a nightmare. You don't want that. If he posts good content about correct information he is much better than when he says something else is wrong. When he says something is wrong, he continually ends up in flame wars with people not understanding what he is saying and him not understanding what they are saying.

    So, no, don't do a repeat of TT myths. Post good content heavy with technical facts and not talking about the things that are wrong. The things that are right will make clear things that are wrong without you even having to reference them.

    Post footage like that footage of the high speed camera capturing dwell time on a direct contact and how the blade "vibrates" and "flexes"....how the rebound of the blade is very slow compared to the "dwell time". Post anything that is informative without referencing the people or concepts you are trying to argue against.

    See what happens.
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    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
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  20. TTFrenzy is offline
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    #100
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    He has already done this as pnachtwey. It was a nightmare. You don't want that. If he posts good content about correct information he is much better than when he says something else is wrong. When he says something is wrong, he continually ends up in flame wars with people not understanding what he is saying and him not understanding what they are saying.

    So, no, don't do a repeat of TT myths. Post good content heavy with technical facts and not talking about the things that are wrong. The things that are right will make clear things that are wrong without you even having to reference them.

    Post footage like that footage of the high speed camera capturing dwell time on a direct contact and how the blade "vibrates" and "flexes"....how the rebound of the blade is very slow compared to the "dwell time". Post anything that is informative without referencing the people or concepts you are trying to argue against.

    See what happens.

    Oh he is pnacthwey?? No need to say anything else then . His superior technique 🙄🙄 and vast knowledge 🤣🤣 of tt mechanics have convinced me over the years that I should listen to him very carefully when he is analysing TT. Anyway it was fun wasting my time here again...cu in another 4-5 years

    I suck real bad so I train to suck less

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