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  1. Markvee is offline
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    #21
    edit: too many edits, made new post.
    Last edited by Markvee; 02-27-2013 at 03:54 PM.

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    #22
    hey,

    I think that the hurricane a faster rubber is and the ball is quicker from your racket.
    The ball doesn' t stay that long as your old rubber. You have to change your playing style a little to get morespin on the ball, i had the same problem. After a mond you shout get more spin on the ball. Sorry for English

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    #23
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    I would have preferred to check the goods before buying but unfortunately that is not possible and I made my choice by going along with some reviews.
    Isn't Super FX a chinese rubber?Actually when I choose degree of sponge I choose 40 because I wanted the feel to be a bit like Super FX(found it a bit hard but just right), but as degree are just numbers online I made a wrong decision.

    thanks
    Well 729 Super FX is designed to play like japanese/euro rubber..
    To make good spin out of it you need to engage the sponge, while getting good spin from your tacky rubber also involves the topsheet now, esp. in service..
    Might be the reason you are lacking spin on service albeit using a rubber with higher spin potential

    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    unfortunately I cannot change blade due to financial reasons
    Using your premade racket blade is a very viable option I say
    GFoT |Blade : Timo Boll ALC • FH : DHS Hurricane 3 Provincial MAX • BH : Tenergy 64 MAX
    Crossover to Takeover!

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    #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Markvee
    Have you tried removing the old rubbers from your premade rackets? You might need some acetone.
    not yet, I still play with it to compare it with the new racket.

    Also is it normal that H3 is not as tacky as before with around 2hrs of play?I mean I see a very big difference when it's new and after 2hrs.

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    #25
    Quote Originally Posted by YosuaYosan
    Well 729 Super FX is designed to play like japanese/euro rubber..
    To make good spin out of it you need to engage the sponge, while getting good spin from your tacky rubber also involves the topsheet now, esp. in service..
    Might be the reason you are lacking spin on service albeit using a rubber with higher spin potential


    Using your premade racket blade is a very viable option I say
    lol would this $5 blade be better than t11?

  6. TableTennisDaily is offline
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    #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    Sponge hardness is a topic that is often misunderstood. Various amounts of spin & speed are produced on the ball depending on several factors...
    These factors are

    1)Dwell time (mostly related to spin but in soft rubbers it creates speed also)

    2)Power of the stroke (related to spin & spin also, the harder the hit the faster the ball, the harder the brush the spinnier the ball)

    3)Tehcnique timing & angle of the stroke that also produce different amounts speed & spin

    Some physics to understand better



    There are two forces on the ball a) the tangential one that creates spin b)and the lateral one that creates speed

    Notice that by the term speed we mean horizontal speed not vertical! The actual result of these two forces is that the ball is travelling spinny and speedy creating an arc.

    Lets assume that a table tennis sponge is like a spring . Hard springs when compared to softer ones when fully compressed produce more force thus more acceleration (F= K X A , Newton's law) thus more speed, to the object that compresses them. K is the modulus of elasticity of the spring=sponge, F the Force , A fore acceleration

    Conclusion no1 : When the sponge is hard you need strong hitters to manage to compress the sponge at its full in order to take full advantage of its abilities ! To achieve that you need a hard hitter with perfect timing and angle of the racket. Like any chinese professional player for example...doesnt have to be top10. That doesnt mean that if you are in good physical condition with fast footwork and good body & wrist rotation (but not a pro player) you cant play effectively with a chinese rubber
    .
    Conclusion no2 : With softer sponges (the sponge has more "porosity") you need less power and have big margin for error in your angle of your strokes to achieve a desired arc (speed&spin). Because of the softness, the ball compresses easily the sponge at its full potential giving you & me and the whooole TTdaily forum amateur players an easy task!

    Conclusion no3 : Knowing the importance of timing, paddle angle and sponge hardness, underspins lifted with hard rubbers need perfect technique and timing compared to the soft ones. A heavy underspin if lifted with a small error in technique using a soft rubber, maybe will not be lifted (or lifted with less pace & arc) with a hard rubber. BUT when you learn your technique correctly and learn to lift every underspin ball with ease, using hard rubbers will give you more effective shots

    So...If you have good technique footwork and physique you can play with a hard tacky rubber like the hurricane (boosted of course...chinese rubbers were invented to be boosted) . If you are a beginner who still is improving his shots prefer a soft rubber.

    p.s. Notice that conclusion1&2&3 are considering the exact same stroke with the exact same incoming ball to your paddle.
    Amazing post! I learnt a lot there!
    Out Now: TableTennisDaily.com 2.0

  7. Markvee is offline
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    #27
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    lol would this $5 blade be better than t11?
    The point is, what is the best blade for a given individual player? You say you play 1-2 hours? sessions? every 2 weeks. I know a guy who used to have pretty good control with his Timo Boll Spirit, but now he can only practice 2-4 hours a week, so it was difficult for him to maintain the technique needed for his offensive blade. So now he's using a slower blade.

    Like Yosua says, your 5$ premade blade might be better for players like you and me. The 729 premade blades are actually pretty decent quality blades in the 5-ply all-wood allround class.

    With time I'm sure you can get used to the T-11+ if you really want to. But you will need to be patient and you will need to accept that this kind of fast blade won't be very forgiving of your mistakes. And then it's up to you if you want fast speed & difficult placement control & more mistakes (T-11+), or less speed & easier placement control & less mistakes (slower blade).
    Last edited by Markvee; 02-27-2013 at 04:12 PM.

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    #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Markvee
    The point is, what is the best blade for a given individual player? I play 4 hours a week and I would prefer playing a 729 basic blade with new rubber, to a T-11+.
    Playing effectively with a T-11+ kind of blade (OFF+ carbon-balsa blade) requires a lot of practice time. Not counting time spent playing matches.

    You say you play 1-2 hours? sessions? every 2 weeks. In this case, as Yosua says, your 5$ premade blade might be better for players like you and me. The 729 premade blades are actually pretty good quality blades in the 5-ply all-wood allround class.

    With time I'm sure you can get used to the T-11+ if you really want to, but you have to accept that your shots will not be as spinny as with your old setup.
    I was playing everyday before so I reach a decent level but I'm devoting more time to studying now as university is very demanding. I can attack and spin fine, it's just that I miss the feeling of sensing the ball getting into that sponge

    btw I have an old Stiga Amaze blade, is this good?

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    #29
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    How do I get more brushing if there is less contact time?
    by having a thinner contact, I dont remember who said it in a video once, i think it was about michael maze serving, but it applies here, "Its like slicing the skin off an apple with a blade." not taking a chunk out of the apple hope thats a good visualization

    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    What do you mean boosted?How do I do that?Actually I have been playing for around 5 years with pre-made rackets and thought that it was time to give custom made ones a try. I mostly read some reviews online to choose my blade and rubbers and bought it off ebay as the prices literally robbery.
    "boosting" was something that used to be done to rubber just before a match using what was called "speed glue" it would enhance the properties of the rubber. making them better, So rubbers like shriver were fantastic when boosted, which is why it was so popular. and the also the Chinese rubbers were designed knowing that they would be boosted afterward. the 2008 olympics were the last time speed glue was legally used, it was banned from any tournament.

    so now rubbers like shriver are only good, instead of great.

    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    unfortunately I cannot change blade due to financial reasons,I will just have to do with it. What I want is to adapt to what I have.
    Reviews tabletennisdb were only praising the t11 saying that it's good for attacking etc...that's why I went along with it.

    and I'm not very muscular that's why I choose something light as reviews said that rubbers themselves were already a bit heavy.

    Anyway I play only during my free time from university and I don't want to spent more money on something that I do only 1-2 every 2 week, my budget is at its limit.

    btw why is it good for is attacking miles away from the table?I played with it and can attack perfectly fine near the table.
    completely understandable. rubbers and everything are going through the roof in price. But i wouldnt worry about heavy rubber. I im 5' 7" and weigh like 110. and im using what is considered a quite heavy rubber, once u adjust its fine, just depending on how hard you play, watch out for carpel tunnel in the wrist, or tennis elbow. you can get both of these with light rubber as well, just be more aware of it.
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    #30
    google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt

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    #31
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Pish
    by having a thinner contact, I dont remember who said it in a video once, i think it was about michael maze serving, but it applies here, "Its like slicing the skin off an apple with a blade." not taking a chunk out of the apple hope thats a good visualization



    "boosting" was something that used to be done to rubber just before a match using what was called "speed glue" it would enhance the properties of the rubber. making them better, So rubbers like shriver were fantastic when boosted, which is why it was so popular. and the also the Chinese rubbers were designed knowing that they would be boosted afterward. the 2008 olympics were the last time speed glue was legally used, it was banned from any tournament.

    so now rubbers like shriver are only good, instead of great.



    completely understandable. rubbers and everything are going through the roof in price. But i wouldnt worry about heavy rubber. I im 5' 7" and weigh like 110. and im using what is considered a quite heavy rubber, once u adjust its fine, just depending on how hard you play, watch out for carpel tunnel in the wrist, or tennis elbow. you can get both of these with light rubber as well, just be more aware of it.
    thanks for advice i'll try it

    Is it possible to boost the top sheet?like making it more tacky?

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    #32
    Quote Originally Posted by decoy
    google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt
    I can barely understand that translation.

    The Following User Likes chiz's Post:

    John_Pish


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    #33
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    thanks for advice i'll try it

    Is it possible to boost the top sheet?like making it more tacky?
    make it more tacky? not sure. i had a butterfly pre-assembled that was very tacky, and when it lost alot of its tackiness,
    i brushed oil (olive, vegetable, whatever) on the rubber, and let it soak in, and repeat a couple times, that will restore alot of the tackiniess, but im not sure about making it MORE tacky. as far as i know the oil is still illegal for tournament. but other people, or clubs nobody is really going to care. especially if they are better than you anyway p
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    #34
    A thin contact (not less contact time...) means that you brush the ball more and hit less.

    Buy this one http://www.megaspin.net/store/defaul...d=lkt-instinct . Its very good and cheap blade for beginners. Dont play the hurricane without booster it is not worth it! Other buy a booster (dian chi haifu seamoon booster stiga booster etc) or buy a cheap non tacky european/japanese technology rubber.

    I believe either you notice something wrong with your hurricane or your hurricane is bad product. It is definetely one of the most tackiest rubbers out there and for sure more tacky than the friendship you had on your premade paddle.

    Hope I helped, if I was you I would sell my T11 (too fast for a beginner) and buy an allwood ALL+ OFF- blade
    I suck real bad so I train to suck less

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    #35
    Quote Originally Posted by decoy
    google translate exists for that reason : How without Double Happiness backplane? Hurricane King 3 hurricane Dragon 2 also line ah Galaxy backplane is relatively poor in China! Hurricane 40 hard, multi adapt
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    I can barely understand that translation.
    Google really knows their stuff ahaha
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    #36
    Quote Originally Posted by John_Pish
    make it more tacky? not sure. i had a butterfly pre-assembled that was very tacky, and when it lost alot of its tackiness,
    i brushed oil (olive, vegetable, whatever) on the rubber, and let it soak in, and repeat a couple times, that will restore alot of the tackiniess, but im not sure about making it MORE tacky. as far as i know the oil is still illegal for tournament. but other people, or clubs nobody is really going to care. especially if they are better than you anyway p
    oil on the rubber?doesn't that make it greasy?

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    #37
    Quote Originally Posted by chiz
    oil on the rubber?doesn't that make it greasy?
    nope it soaks in. you'll be surprised :P
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    #38
    There were a lot of posts since mine, so I won't quote everything

    But first before you decide: I am no expert, so I'm only telling you from my experience

    To me the H3 was beside my Skyline the tackiest rubber I ever had, but those were the only chinese I actually had. I used to play european rubbers until I discovered those 2 and I haven't tried out any other.
    Maybe that's why our opinion differs about it's tackiness.

    Also neither my H3 nor the Skyline have lost their tackiness (even after 1-2 month's). I just have to breath onto it and swipe the humidity from it and ist nearly as tacky as new (or use some water).

    I have never boosted the topsheet since I heard, that it wouldn't work. John_Pish said, that he had done it and it worked. Maybe you'll try it out. But as I said, I've only heard about unsatisfying results...

    But boosting the rubber is something completely different. As already mentioned, they used to glue with speedglue. This is now forbidden so manufacturers have come up with "boosters". They are not glue, so you still have to glue your rubbers with some VOC free glue. But since it's pretty hard (or even impossible?) to reveal that somone has boosted, most of the pro's do it.
    These boosters add some spice to your blade (but still illegal). They make your rubbers faster, spinnier and they feel a lot softer. You can search for it in this forum or in google. There's quite a lot about it.

    If you miss a certain feel in your game you could try out a different wood. The internetz is really not your best friend when it comes to reviews or hints about finding your new set-up. It is something very personal. Maybe you should search a local dealer and go there to try some stuff out before bying. That's what I always do. Don't rush it and especially don't let other people tell you what is better for you.
    My first custom blade was some andro carbon. It was really really crap. No "feeling", nothing. But it was fast -> so my smashes were cool. But that was the end of the story
    Then I bought the Tibhar Samsonov Alpha (it's still quite cheap ~30 € here). It was one of the best wooden blades I ever had. And now I have another (faster) all wood blade, which I bought after more than 1 month comparing. Carbon was just wrong for me.

    In conclusion: Try it out!
    Last edited by BLUE; 02-27-2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: does anybody know something about grammar :D

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    #39
    I had this problem with the T11+ using hard rubbers and I have 2 T11+ setups, Setup1- DHS H3 Neo(FH) and DHS Tin Arc3(BH) then I changed to Xiom Vega Europe Max(FH) and Xiom Omega 4 Elite Max (BH) . I am now more than happy as these 2 rubbers are soft and combine very well with the Stiff and fast T11+.

    Setup 2 which I bought later is Butterfly Solcion (FH) and I kept the DHS Tin Arc 3(BH) which good for blocking and BH push as it is a none tacky rubber.

    I think most definitely the soft rubbers on T11+ is very good for me.

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    #40
    Quote Originally Posted by TTFrenzy
    A thin contact (not less contact time...) means that you brush the ball more and hit less.

    Buy this one http://www.megaspin.net/store/defaul...d=lkt-instinct . Its very good and cheap blade for beginners. Dont play the hurricane without booster it is not worth it! Other buy a booster (dian chi haifu seamoon booster stiga booster etc) or buy a cheap non tacky european/japanese technology rubber.

    I believe either you notice something wrong with your hurricane or your hurricane is bad product. It is definetely one of the most tackiest rubbers out there and for sure more tacky than the friendship you had on your premade paddle.

    Hope I helped, if I was you I would sell my T11 (too fast for a beginner) and buy an allwood ALL+ OFF- blade
    do you have an H3?can you take a picture of it?
    here is a picture of mine after a few hours of use

    http://i.imgur.com/a1TN4L1.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/tPCyraE.jpg
    http://i.imgur.com/FrBDN2t.jpg

    I do not find it as glossy as my other teamates old rubbers and when I press my finger against the rubber I barely feel the tackiness.

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