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View Poll Results: best rubber for fh

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  • mxp

    15 55.56%
  • mxs

    6 22.22%
  • elp

    2 7.41%
  • els

    3 11.11%
  • fxp

    0 0%
  • fxp

    1 3.70%
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  1. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #1

    tibhar evolution rubbers

    fh bh
    mxp mxp
    mxs mxs
    elp elp
    els els
    fxp fxp
    fxs fxs
    hello table tennis daily community,
    I want to buy two rubbers of tibhar evolution (for me and my friend so we can get use of the offer in tt11 3=4)
    what about mxp on fh and mxs on bh? there is also fxp or elp on bh... and fxs els
    there are a lot of options and I am confused
    which two rubbers will serve me for long time ?
    what thicknesses is the best [I have no idea about it] ?

    I am an intermediate player training 6 hours a week , I am an offensive player on fh and allround(learning to spin) on bh (my bh need to improve more than my fh and I want to be more aggressive on both sides)
    my blade is wooden Chinese from a paddle with two chinese rubbers
    (i dont wanna be an international player just local)
    ps i know I need time to get along with these fast rubbers. hope to suits me and enjoy it
    I really need you help and appreciate your co operation
    you are my rescuers
    thank you
    please choose from the table and ignore the poll
    Last edited by Yamen Raslan; 10-17-2020 at 07:32 PM.

  2. BryanY is offline
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    #2

    tibhar evolution rubbers

    The safest choice is FX-S. It has a better topsheet than FX-P which is more stable and dynamic. It also has a soft enough sponge that it’s easy to use.

    If your technique is good and consistent then get the max thickness.

    The Following User Likes BryanY's Post:

    Yamen Raslan

    Last edited by BryanY; 10-17-2020 at 02:52 PM.

  3. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #3
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanY
    The safest choice is FX-S. It has a better topsheet than FX-P which is more stable and dynamic. It also has a soft enough sponge that it’s easy to use.

    If your technique is good and consistent then get the max thickness.
    thank you very much ..
    do you mean mxp on fh and fxs on bh?
    could you tell me what the difference between the highest and the lowest thickness for speed and control?

  4. yogi_bear is offline
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    #4
    Mxs is very good but it feels hard and you need more brushing contact with the ball.

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  5. BryanY is offline
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    #5

    tibhar evolution rubbers

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamen Raslan
    thank you very much ..
    do you mean mxp on fh and fxs on bh?
    could you tell me what the difference between the highest and the lowest thickness for speed and control?
    FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.

    What is your skill level on forehand? If you are comfortable with a tacky Chinese rubber like Hurricane 3 then probably go with MX-S as an alternative. Otherwise MX-P or EL-S are pretty good for conventional forehand strokes. FX-S might work well if you need more consistency on forehand.

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    Last edited by BryanY; 10-18-2020 at 05:05 AM.

  6. virtuososiu is offline
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    #6
    For months, I was using ELS both sides. It helped me improve my strokes a lot

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  7. Magic_M is offline
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    #7
    In the moment I really like the combination of EL-S (1,9-2,0 mm) on forehand and MX-P (1,9-2,0 mm) on backhand.

    The Following User Likes Magic_M's Post:

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  8. TTLOVE is online now
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    #8
    If you are a completely novice you should go for els on both sides. If you are an amateur you should go for elp on backhand and els on forehand, if you are a semi-professional player you should use mxp on both sides

    The Following User Likes TTLOVE's Post:

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  9. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanY
    FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.
    Perhaps you are simplifying. But the information above is not actually accurate. It is what most people say. But....most people seem to have this wrong.

    Sponge dampens. That actually does mean that sponge makes the ball go slower. However, that also makes it so you can swing harder.

    So, here is how this works. Thinner sponge is better for more direct contact like smashes, drives and drive loops. With that kind of shot you have more control and the ball will go faster. But thinner sponge causes the ball to impact the wood sooner, so, for a player whose spin contact is less developed, it makes harder to LEARN how to spin. Someone who has solid spin contact can use thinner rubbers and still spin the heck out of the ball. But someone learning will bottom out when trying to spin and end up hitting a flatter shot.

    Thicker sponge makes it easier to Learn spin contact and, when you are spinning the ball, it allows you to let the ball sink deeper into the topsheet and sponge without impacting the wood of the blade so:

    1) you have a bigger window for making spin contact without bottoming out,
    and
    2) someone with good spin contact will be able to get the ball to sink deeper so the topsheet wraps around the ball more fully and grabs the ball more fully, so you get more spin.

    For someone who is learning to spin the ball, thicker sponge makes that easier, but it makes it so you have less control ON MORE DIRECT CONTACT (like drives and smashes). For someone who knows how to spin, thicker sponge gives you more control because it allows you to get more spin and to control the ball with that extra spin. It ALSO allows you to swing much harder while spinning the ball, so, the end effect, is, when spinning the ball, you can hit a faster shot while getting more spin with thicker rubbers. The faster shot is not because the rubber is faster. The faster shot is because you can put more force into your swing without losing control PROVIDED you are spinning the ball.

    So, the issue is more complicated than most people present. But there is something in what I explained above that caused Werner Schlager to say that any person training and wanting to get to a high level looping, should never use anything thinner than max. Now he was talking about elite kids. So, maybe that is not always the case. But if you want to improve your technique and your looping skills, it would be worth understanding what caused Shlager to say that.

    The Following 3 Users Like UpSideDownCarl's Post:

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-19-2020 at 04:32 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  10. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #10
    Quote Originally Posted by yogi_bear
    Mxs is very good but it feels hard and you need more brushing contact with the ball.
    thank you very much .. I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

  11. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamen Raslan
    I am an intermediate player training 6 hours a week , I am an offensive player on fh and allround(learning to spin) on bh (my bh need to improve more than my fh and I want to be more aggressive on both sides)
    Based on the info above, for FH any of the Evolution rubbers you are asking about should be fine. Probably MXP or MXS make sense and which one would depend on your preference. MXP is faster and has more catapult and more dynamic range. MXS gets more spin and is a little more predictable but has fewer gears.

    However, for BH, based on what you said above, you would probably want either FXP or FXS. The differences are similar to what I described for MXP and MXS but FXP and FXS are softer than the M versions.

    In the end, you would benefit from trying any rubber before you buy it. But in the days of CoVID asking people to try their rackets to see how you like the blade and rubbers they use is not as easy as it was before CoVID.

    Good luck. And if you do find someone with any of these rubbers and you can convince them to let you try their setup, it would be worth it. But they are all good rubbers so, no matter which you get for either wing, you will have a good rubber.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  12. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BryanY
    FX-S on backhand since you said that you need to improve. Thicker = more speed, thinner = less speed. If your consistency is bad then choose 1.9mm if your consistency is decent then choose 2.1mm.

    What is your skill level on forehand? If you are comfortable with a tacky Chinese rubber like Hurricane 3 then probably go with MX-S as an alternative. Otherwise MX-P or EL-S are pretty good for conventional forehand strokes. FX-S might work well if you need more consistency on forehand.
    thank you very much
    on my fh I generate good spinny balls but I need to increase the speed with fast rubber
    on bh have good drives I need to have more spin
    do you think mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thickis a good choice?

  13. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #13
    Quote Originally Posted by virtuososiu
    For months, I was using ELS both sides. It helped me improve my strokes a lot
    I prefer to have faster rubber than els on fh [like mxp] and a slower one [like fxs] with max thick
    do you think it is a good idea ?

  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamen Raslan
    thank you very much
    on my fh I generate good spinny balls but I need to increase the speed with fast rubber
    on bh have good drives I need to have more spin
    do you think mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thickis a good choice?
    I do. But I also think MXP (FH) and FXP (BH) would be good; MXS (FH) and FXS (BH) would be good; or MXS (FH) and FXP (BH) would be good.

    As long as the rubber starts with F for the BH, that is the only thing that would really be important. The E rubbers would also be good for your FH but the M versions are faster. So, you would probably want the M versions more. But.....would they be better for you?

    I would need to see footage of you playing to actually have a valid opinion.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  15. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Magic_M
    In the moment I really like the combination of EL-S (1,9-2,0 mm) on forehand and MX-P (1,9-2,0 mm) on backhand.
    thank you very much .. you seem you like the fast. rubber on bh can I know why ? what about fxs instead of els?
    I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

  16. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TTLOVE
    If you are a completely novice you should go for els on both sides. If you are an amateur you should go for elp on backhand and els on forehand, if you are a semi-professional player you should use mxp on both sides
    thank you very much ..
    you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
    I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?

  17. Yamen Raslan is offline
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    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    Perhaps you are simplifying. But the information above is not actually accurate. It is what most people say. But....most people seem to have this wrong.

    Sponge dampens. That actually does mean that sponge makes the ball go slower. However, that also makes it so you can swing harder.


    So, here is how this works. Thinner sponge is better for more direct contact like smashes, drives and drive loops. With that kind of shot you have more control and the ball will go faster. But thinner sponge causes the ball to impact the wood sooner, so, for a player whose spin contact is less developed, it makes harder to LEARN how to spin. Someone who has solid spin contact can use thinner rubbers and still spin the heck out of the ball. But someone learning will bottom out when trying to spin and end up hitting a flatter shot.

    Thicker sponge makes it easier to Learn spin contact and, when you are spinning the ball, it allows you to let the ball sink deeper into the topsheet and sponge without impacting the wood of the blade so:

    1) you have a bigger window for making spin contact without bottoming out,
    and
    2) someone with good spin contact will be able to get the ball to sink deeper so the topsheet wraps around the ball more fully and grabs the ball more fully, so you get more spin.

    For someone who is learning to spin the ball, thicker sponge makes that easier, but it makes it so you have less control ON MORE DIRECT CONTACT (like drives and smashes). For someone who knows how to spin, thicker sponge gives you more control because it allows you to get more spin and to control the ball with that extra spin. It ALSO allows you to swing much harder while spinning the ball, so, the end effect, is, when spinning the ball, you can hit a faster shot while getting more spin with thicker rubbers. The faster shot is not because the rubber is faster. The faster shot is because you can put more force into your swing without losing control PROVIDED you are spinning the ball.

    So, the issue is more complicated than most people present. But there is something in what I explained above that caused Werner Schlager to say that any person training and wanting to get to a high level looping, should never use anything thinner than max. Now he was talking about elite kids. So, maybe that is not always the case. But if you want to improve your technique and your looping skills, it would be worth understanding what caused Shlager to say that.
    thank you very much for your effort you explained the thickness very well
    so depending on what you say iam gonna have the max thick
    I really appreciate your help

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  18. TTLOVE is online now
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamen Raslan
    thank you very much ..
    you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
    I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?
    fxs IMO is to soft, I love the elp on backhand for me it is the perfect rubber. I'm using elp max on backhand for at least 3 years

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  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamen Raslan
    thank you very much ..
    you can say I am semi pro on fh and an amature on bh .. do you prefer elp to fxs?
    I think I'm going to buy mxp on fh and fxs on bh with max thick do you think it is a good choice?
    Personally, having felt both, I liked FXP considerably more than FXS because of how much more dynamic it is. But everyone is different. So I cannot say what you would like. Just that either FXP or FXS gives you the most chance of improving your skills with your BH whereas any of the harder (also faster rubbers [E or M]) would make it harder for your BH to improve.

    FXP gives you the ability to play a wider range of shots and it feels more alive. FXS is good for short game and when you drive or loop the ball, you have to put more effort in to get the output you are looking for. Because FXP has more catapult, it makes it so you can have a much wider range of offensive shots rather than all or nothing.

    The Following User Likes UpSideDownCarl's Post:

    Yamen Raslan

    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

  20. UpSideDownCarl is offline
    says I like to hit Heavy Topspin
     
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TTLOVE
    fxs IMO is to soft, I love the elp on backhand for me it is the perfect rubber. I'm using elp max on backhand for at least 3 years
    Too soft for you does not say much about the correct hardness for someone who is trying to improve his BH.

    In 2016 Emmanuel Lebesson won the European Championships in Budapest using FXP on both sides. It seems it was not too soft for someone who is a decent level pro. So, what is the actual meaning of "too soft."

    I know other very high level players who like soft rubbers as well. It is true that the trend is that people are using harder rubbers in the last few years. But there are still some players high level players who prefer soft rubbers.

    When you are skilled enough, soft, medium or hard is really just a personal choice. When you are trying to learn, softer gives you the best opportunity to develop your technique and improve the quality of your contact. The harder the rubber, the more precise you need to be.

    And not everyone likes the topsheet on ELP which is a different topsheet than the one on MXP and FXP.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 10-19-2020 at 07:23 PM.
    Setup 1: Blade by Nate: Vortex Spin Machine, FH Evolution MX-K, BH Evolution FX-P
    Setup 2: OSP Virtuoso Plus, FH Rasanter R 48, BH Rasanter R 48
    Spin is Everything

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