This user has no status.
Liam Pitchford - Nature or Nurture???
- Thread starter Table Tennis Reborn
- Start date
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
Hey guys, I thought I would ask Liam some questions, he has read the discussion and very much enjoyed the read. Thanks for all your posts so far. I asked him a few questions, check them out below
Dan: What age did you start training full time?
Liam: I started training full time when I was 16 after I finished my gcses at school
Dan: Nice, up till the age of 16, did you train regularly ? Wasn't you in a school with friends similar to your age and standard?
Liam: I was practicing 3 to 4 times per week when the centre in Sheffield opened before that probably 2 times.
Dan: Cool, did you always have motivation in the training hall to succeed? Did you always push yourself?
Liam: Yeah there were 3 of us that are very good friends. We all started together and I guess that did help me because I always had someone to try and be better than.
Dan: Yeah I understand that's great. Did you ever believe you could reach where you are today when you were training at school level?
Liam: Yeah I always wanted to be able to practice full time when I was at school so I always had the motivation to practice. I always hoped I could, I used to play tennis before I chose table tennis so it always came quite natural to me.
Dan: Ah awesome thanks Liam. How is your training now in comparison to your developing years as a player. What do you commonly focus on now?
Liam: In general it is pretty similar..obviously now I am practicing more and with top players. It depends whether we have matches coming up or a long period of practice time but mainly I am working a lot on the forehand areas of my game
Dan: Nice one, have you always had a lot of coaching feedback throughout your career?
Liam: Not really when I was young but when I came into the national team and into Ochsenhausen I have.
Dan: That's good stuff What are your views on the nature vs nurture discussion?
Do you feel it's a mixture? Opportunity, talent?
Liam: A lot of people said to me when I was young that I had talent and so on and I guess I started to believe that but when I came to Ochsenhausen I saw that I needed to step up and really work harder than everybody else to achieve what I wanted in tt and I guess this season has started to bring the rewards
Dan: Awesome Liam thanks for the amazing answers mate
Liam: No problem
Great post dan, I am glad Liam enjoyed the discussion....
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
Hey everyone, nice topic.
I've studied the nature vs nurture topic at university with Dan and I believe it does come down to mostly environment, practice and the resources that Liam has experienced. He started at a young age with close friends in the same school who practiced together and became a very high standard for their age group. Then the national centre in Sheffield opened within traveling distance. This provided Liam with high quality practice partners such as Paul Drinkhall and Darius Knight who were older and winning many medals at a cadet and junior level on the international circuit. This would have given Liam a great start in his career as a full time athlete. Then having improved further Liam moved to Germany where he is still receiving world class practice and coaching.
In terms of a genetic influence if you look at he top 50 table tennis players in the world they are all different heights, weights and builds. Just look at the difference between Samsonov and Kreanga. I think this is because table tennis is a skill based sport and not a fitness based sport. By skill based sport I mean you need to learn the skills of the game to be able to compete. A fitness based sport such as sprinting or weight lifting would require a greater genetic influence to be successful in. Fitness components such as reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need them. This was entertainingly explained by Mathew Syed in his book Bounce. He remembered when Desmond Douglas was given a test of reaction time. The test involved pushing a button in response to a light. Douglas was famed for having extremely fast reactions in table tennis with his playing style so close to the table. The test found that Douglas had the slowest reaction time of the entire England team. This shows that reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need it.
The best Chinese players in the world have had the benefits of growing up in a country where table tennis is culturally significant so they grow up wanting to be like the countries superstars. They go to a school where they can practice table tennis for hours everyday. If they practice deliberately and purposefully enough they will improve to the point where they may be selected for the national team where the training and practice is second to none in the world probably for any sport. As for the players that didn't make it, they are still extremely good table tennis players and much better than a lot of the majority of European players.
I'm enjoying reading this thread, keep the debate going
lgreggs
I've studied the nature vs nurture topic at university with Dan and I believe it does come down to mostly environment, practice and the resources that Liam has experienced. He started at a young age with close friends in the same school who practiced together and became a very high standard for their age group. Then the national centre in Sheffield opened within traveling distance. This provided Liam with high quality practice partners such as Paul Drinkhall and Darius Knight who were older and winning many medals at a cadet and junior level on the international circuit. This would have given Liam a great start in his career as a full time athlete. Then having improved further Liam moved to Germany where he is still receiving world class practice and coaching.
In terms of a genetic influence if you look at he top 50 table tennis players in the world they are all different heights, weights and builds. Just look at the difference between Samsonov and Kreanga. I think this is because table tennis is a skill based sport and not a fitness based sport. By skill based sport I mean you need to learn the skills of the game to be able to compete. A fitness based sport such as sprinting or weight lifting would require a greater genetic influence to be successful in. Fitness components such as reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need them. This was entertainingly explained by Mathew Syed in his book Bounce. He remembered when Desmond Douglas was given a test of reaction time. The test involved pushing a button in response to a light. Douglas was famed for having extremely fast reactions in table tennis with his playing style so close to the table. The test found that Douglas had the slowest reaction time of the entire England team. This shows that reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need it.
The best Chinese players in the world have had the benefits of growing up in a country where table tennis is culturally significant so they grow up wanting to be like the countries superstars. They go to a school where they can practice table tennis for hours everyday. If they practice deliberately and purposefully enough they will improve to the point where they may be selected for the national team where the training and practice is second to none in the world probably for any sport. As for the players that didn't make it, they are still extremely good table tennis players and much better than a lot of the majority of European players.
I'm enjoying reading this thread, keep the debate going
lgreggs
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
Well-Known Member
Administrator
Hey everyone, nice topic.
I've studied the nature vs nurture topic at university with Dan and I believe it does come down to mostly environment, practice and the resources that Liam has experienced. He started at a young age with close friends in the same school who practiced together and became a very high standard for their age group. Then the national centre in Sheffield opened within traveling distance. This provided Liam with high quality practice partners such as Paul Drinkhall and Darius Knight who were older and winning many medals at a cadet and junior level on the international circuit. This would have given Liam a great start in his career as a full time athlete. Then having improved further Liam moved to Germany where he is still receiving world class practice and coaching.
In terms of a genetic influence if you look at he top 50 table tennis players in the world they are all different heights, weights and builds. Just look at the difference between Samsonov and Kreanga. I think this is because table tennis is a skill based sport and not a fitness based sport. By skill based sport I mean you need to learn the skills of the game to be able to compete. A fitness based sport such as sprinting or weight lifting would require a greater genetic influence to be successful in. Fitness components such as reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need them. This was entertainingly explained by Mathew Syed in his book Bounce. He remembered when Desmond Douglas was given a test of reaction time. The test involved pushing a button in response to a light. Douglas was famed for having extremely fast reactions in table tennis with his playing style so close to the table. The test found that Douglas had the slowest reaction time of the entire England team. This shows that reaction time can be learnt for the context that you need it.
The best Chinese players in the world have had the benefits of growing up in a country where table tennis is culturally significant so they grow up wanting to be like the countries superstars. They go to a school where they can practice table tennis for hours everyday. If they practice deliberately and purposefully enough they will improve to the point where they may be selected for the national team where the training and practice is second to none in the world probably for any sport. As for the players that didn't make it, they are still extremely good table tennis players and much better than a lot of the majority of European players.
I'm enjoying reading this thread, keep the debate going
lgreggs
Wow very good post Lloyd! I totally understand your concepts here. I like the genetic part whereby all players in the top 50 vary in size such as height, weight and build. Table tennis is such a fine, skill based sport and takes ridiculously, sickening hours to get to the top.
Keep up the thread guys, very interesting seeing everyone's perspectives.
says
Waldner Masterclass out now! 🏓
says
Waldner Masterclass out now! 🏓
Well-Known Member
Administrator
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
Well-Known Member
Administrator
I was looking for a thread about Liam because I am so impressed at his skills.
I enjoy watching his German League games and have watched his surprisingly close match with XuXin last year. In this match there are a couple of points where Liam shows awesomely quick reactions to the ball hitting the net. This highlights the role of reactions, reflexes and subconscious actions in the sport of Table Tennis. I am not sure there is any other sport where so much of the game must be completely embedded into the subconcious in order to be successful. Once the rally has begun it is a game played almost completely by instinct and subconscious recognition of patterns of play etc. I think this makes purposeful practice probably more important in Table Tennis than in other sports. Most people have adequate physical characteristics to play well, but it takes a willingness to practice each individual skill element to the extent that it becomes instinctive. My hypothesis would therefore be that it is the drive and motivation to practice effectively that matter most. Whether this is something you are born with or can learn is much more open to question than with physical characteristics.
(I have always been surprised that footballers don't seem to practice individual skill elements to the same extent. Did you ever hear of a footballer doing the equivalent of multiball and just spending hours hitting the same pass, trap or step over again again and again until their feet are sore? I think I recall reading that David Beckham used to do this with his curled free kicks. I have always wondered why others have lacked the motivation to do the same - surely all footballers should be able to bend it like Beckham through purposeful practice.)
I enjoy watching his German League games and have watched his surprisingly close match with XuXin last year. In this match there are a couple of points where Liam shows awesomely quick reactions to the ball hitting the net. This highlights the role of reactions, reflexes and subconscious actions in the sport of Table Tennis. I am not sure there is any other sport where so much of the game must be completely embedded into the subconcious in order to be successful. Once the rally has begun it is a game played almost completely by instinct and subconscious recognition of patterns of play etc. I think this makes purposeful practice probably more important in Table Tennis than in other sports. Most people have adequate physical characteristics to play well, but it takes a willingness to practice each individual skill element to the extent that it becomes instinctive. My hypothesis would therefore be that it is the drive and motivation to practice effectively that matter most. Whether this is something you are born with or can learn is much more open to question than with physical characteristics.
(I have always been surprised that footballers don't seem to practice individual skill elements to the same extent. Did you ever hear of a footballer doing the equivalent of multiball and just spending hours hitting the same pass, trap or step over again again and again until their feet are sore? I think I recall reading that David Beckham used to do this with his curled free kicks. I have always wondered why others have lacked the motivation to do the same - surely all footballers should be able to bend it like Beckham through purposeful practice.)
I think it's all matter of how many new elements one can discovers in himself. For me in table tennis it's not only about the more you train and practice the better player you'll become but is also about knowing stuff like how to put even more power into the shot and more precise by adding more power from your legs. The coach always can tell you how to move and etc. but only you can really find it in yourself. It's like an enlightenment that just pops up to you out of nowhere whether that is when you play or watch someone when you suddenly realize it's much more effective if I move my feet this way and not this way. Because naturally our bodies make our arms respond to the incoming ball first and that's why when you see newcomers try to play table tennis they do so many weird movements because their bodies are not adapted to it. Our goal straight from the beginning of learning is to scrap the bad habits our bodies do and try to utilize our legs more and how to move our feet in order to hit the ball better. So maybe Liam Pitchford has "found" himself much sooner than others
Last edited:
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
Well-Known Member
Administrator
Good points here, I think with TT the skill is so fine and takes so much practice to master. Whereas in football it's a lot more of a larger motor skill on the contact. Both sports would require true amounts of practice, I just think the two sports vary and different skills need to be worked on.
For example in football, if you train on becoming super fit and strong this will help your play, so footballers will work on this. In TT, players are more worried about a ball which comes in various amounts of spins/speed so a lot of table practice is required.
I have read about Beckham that when he was a kid he spent hours after training doing free kids into a rope swing which had a tyre on the bottom. Likewise Johnny Wilkinson did the same, he spend 2 hours after training kicking rugby balls through the posts.
So perhaps, the elite performers in football are training ridiculous amounts to. Just in table tennis there is so much variation to learn. It's an individual sport also which makes things slightly different to a team sport.
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Member
I think you need to be born with the talent it's in your nature and to nurture that talent you need need the right environment to nurture your talent. i.e China has a great table tennis infrastructure to nurture the talent. Coaching grassroots etc.
Whether its nature or nurture its bloody marvellous
Liam in the last 8 of ze German Open - Hurrah, Hurrah
Liam in the last 8 of ze German Open - Hurrah, Hurrah
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
Well-Known Member
Administrator
Whether its nature or nurture its bloody marvellous
Liam in the last 8 of ze German Open - Hurrah, Hurrah
Maybe it's not nature or nurture haha! It really is incredible! Could Liam be the next European Champion is my question now
This user has no status.
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
This user has no status.
Well-Known Member
I think its neither nature nor nurture . At that rarefied level of sporting excellence , I believe it boils down to the love of the sport , the passion, the attitude and zeal to succeed. This could be instilled by nature or circumstances. Also, one important thing that I have noticed among all sporting geniuses from what little they expose during the interviews, most of them are the best critics of their own performance. Meaning they develop the mental maturity to correctly and unbiasedly analyze where they stand at a given point in time or their latest performance. I believe its very necessary at that level because there are 100s and 1000s of people screaming at you with advice, kudos and criticism, unless you know what is best for you in all that noise its very difficult to achieve let alone sustain at that level.
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
says
editing a big TTD Team episode... stay tuned 👀
Well-Known Member
Administrator
That is one awesome post ttmonster! That is a very true point! Thinking back to his interviews etc your totally right. Maybe elite players are better at self reflection and can teach themselves a lot of the time. Excellent point, this is one ill remember
Similar threads
