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    1. Top | #21
      richrf is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
      Haha good one. It adds to the whole myth about it though. Like a magical sword cast out of metal from a meteorite or something.

      In my own little experiments I'm looking for eco-friendly durable woods to build blades. Come to think of it, I'd better copyright that stuff in case the big brands decide to go 'green' in the future
      I don't know if too many clubs where going around bragging that a 200 year old tree was cut up for a blade is going to get a round of applause. Apparently some cultures think it is a super idea otherwise the manufacturers wouldn't be bragging about it. But I appreciate the information. I'll know to avoid these manufacturers.

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    3. Top | #22
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      Do not take it so harsh... this is just smart advert ...
      This all comes 7 years in different forum .. this is just to makes Nexy blade more visible.
      But trust me if someone gives a such effort to get this type of old and perfect wood they will give you a Certificate about to support the price .
      http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum...esigners-diary.
      Anyway Nexy is making interesting a new types of blade compositions , that is true. Thumb up on them .

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    5. Top | #23
      langel is online now
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      Hinoki used in TT blades is at least 1 000 000 times less than the Hinoki used in buildings and other stuff.

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    7. Top | #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      Hinoki used in TT blades is at least 1 000 000 times less than the Hinoki used in buildings and other stuff.
      I guess that means we should all join in the fun of cutting up 200 year old trees.

    8. Top | #25
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      Most of the blades are probably cut from young trees.

    9. Top | #26
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      I'm pretty shure that in Japan there are institutions and specialists, which control the process of cutting trees.
      Keeping all of the oldest trees is may be not the best way to maintain a forest in a good shape. Controlled and sanitary cutting and planting of knew tree generation are vital for the forest health. And I think that this is very well organized in Japan.

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    11. Top | #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      I'm pretty shure that in Japan there are institutions and specialists, which control the process of cutting trees.
      Keeping all of the oldest trees is may be not the best way to maintain a forest in a good shape. Controlled and sanitary cutting and planting of knew tree generation are vital for the forest health. And I think that this is very well organized in Japan.
      As Loopdaloop stated, most of the wood is probably cut from younger trees. (I hope...)
      The OP talks about a tree of about 300-400 years old. I don't think that fits into a durable cycle (where trees are cut and planted and cut, over and over).

      But this is a much larger problem of which we don't have all the facts and which is happening all around the world.
      Currently working on lightweight, offensive blades with all-wood feeling.

    12. Top | #28
      langel is online now
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      Sometimes using a global problem as a model gives a very crooked image of other specific models.

    13. Top | #29
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      Xiom is bragging on their website that their new Feel Z blades are made from 250 year old Jiri Hinoki trees. I guess their marketing department felt that was the only way to compete with Butterfly.

    14. Top | #30
      Suga D is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
      I'm not sure if you're referring to my post or not, but here goes. I don't claim to have played with every hinoki blade out there, but I have played with a few with different types of usage of hinoki. These were not 30 year old 10mm thick one ply penhold blades. I allso don't know which part of the tree the wood came from etc.

      Did they play bad? No. Are all the stories about this magical fairy wood true? No.
      The OP goes into this aswell in his post, but the extraordinary legendary status of this wood still remains. Part of it is probably as with many TT-equipment, that people want to believe the hype (aka being overrated). Another part of it is probably because of the scarcity and age of trees being cut (which doesn't automatically make it a better product). Both these aspects are things I'm not very fond of for various reasons!

      On a final note: Calling someone on the internet you don't really know prejudiced, shows you're a bit prejudiced yourself btw. Everyone has his/her opinion based on his/her experiences. If you're a big fan of hinoki and can point out why this wood is completely not overrated, I'm glad to read your story.
      As you can see from my second comment my post was mostly directed towards Bob, but if the shoe fits then might as well wear it.

      Hinoki is a very polarizing material.
      It's a love it or hate it thing. My job is certainly not to convince you and make you love it.
      I guess if it benefits your game it will be very loved, if not it won't.
      I guess it's basically a spinners thang.

      But in fact your attitude towards 300 year old japanese cypress trees is very respectable and noble and at the same time a bit hypocritical and complacent, and carries a whole lot of that holier-than-thou attitude.

      Next you'll try to tell me you've witnessed every plank of wood that you've used for your blades being cut from the tree logs you've seen grow, and no squirrels and birds were harmed when they were cut down.

      C'mon dude, not only 300 year old trees are worth saving. Aren't the younger ones also worth it? How will it become 300 y.o. if it gets cut down after 10 or 20 years.
      Also worth noting that the japanese know very well what kind of treasure they have and protect these trees and only allow a very small number being cut down.

      Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
      Haha good one. It adds to the whole myth about it though. Like a magical sword cast out of metal from a meteorite or something.

      In my own little experiments I'm looking for eco-friendly durable woods to build blades. Come to think of it, I'd better copyright that stuff in case the big brands decide to go 'green' in the future
      If you're really serious with your attitude YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING WOOD AT ALL, INSTEAD WHY NOT USE THE FASTEST GROWING FIBRE: BAMBOO!!
      Don't say it's impossible, it's been done before.
      Even Kevin from Americanhinoki has experienced with bamboo... IMHO


      Besides you're not the first that came up with the idea of 'organically' grown blades.
      Ever heard of JOOLA Greenline??
      Last edited by Suga D; 11-29-2017 at 01:03 PM.

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    16. Top | #31
      MDP is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      As you can see from my second comment my post was mostly directed towards Bob, but if the shoe fits then might as well wear it.

      Hinoki is a very polarizing material.
      It's a love it or hate it thing. My job is certainly not to convince you and make you love it.
      I guess if it benefits your game it will be very loved, if not it won't.
      I guess it's basically a spinners thang.
      I can agree. Despite it being very subjective, I still feel that it's overrated compared to similar species of wood.

      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      But in fact your attitude towards 300 year old japanese cypress trees is very respectable and noble and at the same time a bit hypocritical and complacent, and carries a whole lot of that holier-than-thou attitude.

      Next you'll try to tell me you've witnessed every plank of wood that you've used for your blades being cut from the tree logs you've seen grow, and no squirrels and birds were harmed when they were cut down.


      C'mon dude, not only 300 year old trees are worth saving. Aren't the younger ones also worth it? How will it become 300 y.o. if it gets cut down after 10 or 20 years.
      Nobody is without flaws and nobody has all the information. I'm not claiming that I do. I'm just expressing what I know and what I believe. If I can learn something new, i'm glad to.

      The hipocrisy-claim, seems to become a standard go-to-argument in every discussion about durable living. Be it about public transport vs private transport, eating meat vs vegans, ... It really doesn't lead anywhere and just attacks the person instead of contributing something substantial to the argument. So I suggest we just leave that stuff behind.

      To focus on the specific case of lumber. There are 2 ends of the spectrum : one being cutting down trees in a non-durable way like what is happening in parts of the amazon / africa, the other being a durable cycle of planting and cutting.

      The first case is the easiests and financially most interesting. It's what's been going on for ages. The result : deforestation.
      A system where we cut down trees faster then it takes for them to grow, will always lead to a dead end.

      The second case is harder, but you can't disagree that this will be better in the long run. A tree that's 300 years old, doesn't fit well into the second model. It could, but due to the lifespan of the average human, it's quite hard to govern.

      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post

      Also worth noting that the japanese know very well what kind of treasure they have and protect these trees and only allow a very small number being cut down.
      Let's hope so...

      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      If you're really serious with your attitude YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING WOOD AT ALL, INSTEAD WHY NOT USE THE FASTEST GROWING FIBRE: BAMBOO!!
      Don't say it's impossible, it's been done before.
      Even Kevin from Americanhinoki has experienced with bamboo... IMHO
      Again, I don't claim to be holier then the pope (it's a saying here) and I'm not against using wood in general. Every material has its use. Wood can be grown and could be an infinite source of material (unless we use too much too fast).
      I'm well aware of the possibilities of bamboo, but mostly in the field of construction. (-200 prejudice points for me hooray)
      I've looked into it, but haven't been able to find veneers without paperbacks. So no actual TT-experiments with it yet.


      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      Besides you're not the first that came up with the idea of 'organically' grown blades.
      Ever heard of JOOLA Greenline??
      No, but I'll be sure to check it out.

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    18. Top | #32
      yoass is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by Loopadoop View Post
      Most of the blades are probably cut from young trees.
      Or from older single ply H1-9/H1-10 blades. Why, you might be able to get Hinoki top layers for >5 blades out of one.

    19. Top | #33
      langel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by MDP View Post
      The second case is harder, but you can't disagree that this will be better in the long run. A tree that's 300 years old, doesn't fit well into the second model. It could, but due to the lifespan of the average human, it's quite hard to govern.
      The forest have been existing for many thousands, hundred of thousands or millioons of years. It has 400 years old, 399, 398, 397, 396 .....10 years old... 1 year old trees. Every year some of the oldest trees will die, giving place to younger ones. It's a natural process and happens in wild nature without human activity.
      And again - in controlled forest regions the process of controlled and sanitary cutting and planned planting can be much more effective and forest keeping than in wild nature. And have in mind that the trees suffer from deseases too, so adequate human activity is more than helping.

    20. Top | #34
      MDP is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by langel View Post
      The forest have been existing for many thousands, hundred of thousands or millioons of years. It has 400 years old, 399, 398, 397, 396 .....10 years old... 1 year old trees. Every year some of the oldest trees will die, giving place to younger ones. It's a natural process and happens in wild nature without human activity.
      And again - in controlled forest regions the process of controlled and sanitary cutting and planned planting can be much more effective and forest keeping than in wild nature. And have in mind that the trees suffer from deseases too, so adequate human activity is more than helping.
      What you say is true and I agree that human activity can help sustain a forest. But that is not how commercial logging always works I'm afraid.

      https://s-i.huffpost.com/gen/1883116...N-facebook.jpg

      But maybe we're taking it too far for a tabletennisforum?

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    22. Top | #35
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      And now imagine Fukushima...... There will be some interesting wood after the carefull touch of man kind..... Sorry sarcastic, but it is the reality... I mean no harm only stupid joke with small point, and some beers involved.

    23. Top | #36
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      Hinoki deeper study

      Okay. I am going to ignore the “Save the Rainforest” discussion and note that I am glad it is progressing towards being civil.

      But I am going to say something about Hinoki and it’s playing characteristics.

      Everyone has different feeling in their hands. And everyone has different preferences for what they like.

      I can see how certain styles and ways of playing could cause some to miss what makes Hinoki special. I really can.

      Particularly for drive looping, you could be better off with any number of other kinds of wood. And Hinoki is not going to have that crisp kind of snap or that deeper crunch that some woods have.

      But if your play style and your hand feeling fit with what Hinoki does well, it can feel very special and kind of magical.

      So I get the guys who feel Hinoki is nothing special and where they are coming from.

      But if someone does feel those things a good Hinoki blade is really good for, you will just get it and it will feel MAGICAL.

      You may not feel it or like Hinoki. But that does not mean that someone else is not feeling what they actually ARE FEELING.

      Hinoki is not for everyone. But if you get it, it is kind of like you are an Illuminati.

      And I am not sure there is much to discuss on that. So, when Suga D said it was a “SPINNER’s THANG”, there was a nod and a wink to the other Illuminati. But....maybe.....not everyone can read those hieroglyphics.


      Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 11-29-2017 at 09:08 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    25. Top | #37
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Dispatch the GOON SQUAD, with false grid coordinates... it is beyond help even from Greg Letts and another vid in his series. Asbestos underwear is too late.

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    27. Top | #38
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      The production of Hinoki is limited.
      Ma Long,Li Xiao Xia,Guo Yue and Me was born in the same City,but my skills are not as good as they are.

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    29. Top | #39
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Okay. I am going to ignore the “Save the Rainforest” discussion and note that I am glad it is progressing towards being civil.

      But I am going to say something about Hinoki and it’s playing characteristics.

      Everyone has different feeling in their hands. And everyone has different preferences for what they like.

      I can see how certain styles and ways of playing could cause some to miss what makes Hinoki special. I really can.

      Particularly for drive looping, you could be better off with any number of other kinds of wood. And Hinoki is not going to have that crisp kind of snap or that deeper crunch that some woods have.

      But if your play style and your hand feeling fit with what Hinoki does well, it can feel very special and kind of magical.

      So I get the guys who feel Hinoki is nothing special and where they are coming from.

      But if someone does feel those things a good Hinoki blade is really good for, you will just get it and it will feel MAGICAL.

      You may not feel it or like Hinoki. But that does not mean that someone else is not feeling what they actually ARE FEELING.

      Hinoki is not for everyone. But if you get it, it is kind of like you are an Illuminati.

      And I am not sure there is much to discuss on that. So, when Suga D said it was a “SPINNER’s THANG”, there was a nod and a wink to the other Illuminati. But....maybe.....not everyone can read those hieroglyphics.


      Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
      I am using the Tibhar Inca (incidentally, a Nexy designed blade) and it has a hinoki-outer ply. To make things worse, it has a ball grabbing ALC ply for when you loop hard so the blade feels even more linear than most Hinoki blades. To make top it all off, I combined it with Evolution MX-S, one of the spinniest ball grabbing rubbers in the galaxy. Let's just say that my game feels magical again, even though the blocks of my opponent are probably not impressed. In fact, I need to find some 2300 player to take me out of wonderland. I will probably record some video this weekend but it is like I have ball bending ability. I have permanently joined the Illuminati .
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    31. Top | #40
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      Oh cut it out you babies. Cut a tree, make a blade, plant 5 more trees. Stop whining already. It's farming.

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