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    1. Top | #41
      Loopadoop is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lightzy View Post
      Oh cut it out you babies. Cut a tree, make a blade, plant 5 more trees. Stop whining already. It's farming.
      +1

      If you want to complain about trees being used for making blades, start a petition to be submitted to the ITTF to allow non wood blades like regular Tennis uses, ie aluminum, graphite, fiberglass, etc.

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    3. Top | #42
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by NextLevel View Post
      I am using the Tibhar Inca (incidentally, a Nexy designed blade) and it has a hinoki-outer ply. To make things worse, it has a ball grabbing ALC ply for when you loop hard so the blade feels even more linear than most Hinoki blades. To make top it all off, I combined it with Evolution MX-S, one of the spinniest ball grabbing rubbers in the galaxy. Let's just say that my game feels magical again, even though the blocks of my opponent are probably not impressed. In fact, I need to find some 2300 player to take me out of wonderland. I will probably record some video this weekend but it is like I have ball bending ability. I have permanently joined the Illuminati .
      Tibhar Inca with Hinoki Outer Ply and ALC + MXS + NextLevel = More Spin, More Spin More Spin = Illuminati



      Hahahahaha. That is an evil combination and it would probably take a 2300+ player for NL not to spin his opponent off the table.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-02-2017 at 04:01 PM.
      Spin Everything.

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    5. Top | #43
      NextLevel is online now
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      Nah. The 2000 level players will handle me fine it is all in my head.

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    7. Top | #44
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Tibhar Inca with Hinoki Outer Ply and ALC + MXS + NextLevel = More Spin, More Spin More Spin = Illuminati



      Hahahahaha. That is an evil combination and it would probably take a 2300+ player for NL not to spin his opponent off the table.
      I am happy NL discovered some happiness, damned difficult to do with bad joints. Right now my back is so jacked up it is silly, cannot plant and explode for anything. I play like USATT 1000 level in a rally right now. At least I know how it happened (too long 3 yrs sitting chair at work, TT only once a week for 3-4 months, and no additional walking or other cross-exercise - then one hard session - BAM - injury) so with a little time I can fix it. NL's issues are more than a little more complex and not helped at all by practices of several evil industries beyond his control.
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    9. Top | #45
      Der_Echte is offline
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      On a different note, the good ole $15 Yinhe 896 with a years old FH rubber and H3 or XP2008 can still spin it like crazy... but it is crazy that I seem to be the only one advocating this setup or seem to be the only one to find that setup usable or real spinny.

      That happens a lot, people see me spinning real well with whatever rubber I use, have a try with the bat, then get that rubber, use it a month, then realize they cannot get that level of spin. Ditto for whatever blade I use. Players use it and like it a lot, then with one month using it, they do not get the same results I do... and naturally get discouraged.

      This sets up a chance to make the statement concerning equipment selection I strongly believe in... There exists a flexible range of equipment suitable to do the most important shots for a player with control to make it easier to do what is important. Almost every company will make 2-12 blades and 2-5 rubbers suitable for this.

      Get something in that golden zone, keep it and use it for a year or so. You will adjust and grow if it is in the right zone.

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    11. Top | #46
      NextLevel is online now
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      Use Tenergy. The silly questions will end fast. I already have a high spin level. With certain balls my spin is ridiculous. When I loop the Nittaku I feel like it is speed glue era spin. I think the Evolution -S series is special.
      Last edited by NextLevel; 12-02-2017 at 08:35 PM.

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    13. Top | #47
      NextLevel is online now
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      Quote Originally Posted by richrf View Post
      I'm quite aware about that "magical feeling". It's no different than that magical feeling of cutting up an elephant for ivory. It's always about the feeling. I'm just suggesting that differenyt people get different feelings when Xiom and other manufacturers carve up beautiful and old trees so they can charge extra money for a blade. Give credit to some manufacturers for understanding that not everyone gets that magical feeling when imagining that magnificent tree being carved up.
      Curious - how many Hinoki blades have you played with? Does Hinoki quality have nothing to do with age? And if it is true that higher quality hinoki makes the blades feel better, why is the feeling being compared to that of people who kill elephants for ivory?
      Cobra Kai TT Exponent - No mercy in this dojo, no matter your rating or the score. All spin, no power or footwork.

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    15. Top | #48
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Hinoki deeper study

      Yeah. I think the continual reverting to the issue of the destruction of trees, old trees and rainforests seems to be a bit out of place.

      If that person wanted to start a thread about the logging industry and the way different kinds of woods used in table tennis blades are farmed and harvested, by all means, have fun with that. But if this thread is technically about playing characteristics of a Hinoki blade or top ply, and someone keeps reverting to the subject of the age of the trees without even being able to list the specifics of the Hinoki industry....well, that is actually called Internet Trolling.

      Feel free to make a thread on logging practices that contains specifics on how the manufacture of table tennis blades effect the eco system. Which woods are more eco friendly. Which are not. Do your research and present your findings.

      But, if the conversation keeps going around in a circle like this:

      1- Hinoki feels great when you spin.

      2- they are using 250 year old trees as a marketing scheme shame on them for killing the rain forest.

      3- Hinoki feels great/ No I don’t like Hinoki.

      4- save the trees.

      5- Hinoki feels great/ Not to me.

      6- The people who like Hinoki are just like the people who kill elephants for ivory.

      Etc,

      Then I may decide to use my delete button.

      So, please stop the trolling. And everyone else: please resist the urge to feed the trolls. No more in this thread about deforestation in the Amazon.


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      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 12-03-2017 at 06:20 PM.

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    17. Top | #49
      suds79 is offline
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      How'd this thread get this much traction?

      Oh well. Continue.


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    19. Top | #50
      Der_Echte is offline
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      Suds, it is the fault of illuminati GOON squad making you feel the urge to jump off the Brooklyn bridge for joy.

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    21. Top | #51
      bobpuls is offline
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      And with this bombshell we can finish this discussion...

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    23. Top | #52
      Astorix is offline
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      I am curious about the Nittaku Miyabi, a single ply Hinoki 9mm thick, availabe with Shakehand grip FL.
      some Hinoki experts here are having knowledge about that Blade?
      does it matter that much if the blade is 9 or 10 mm thick? The thinner the more flex and the better for spinning right?
      and should one be conserned it could be too fragile?

    24. Top | #53
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Okay. I deleted a bunch of posts. The posts I deleted, most of them are quoted in the new thread I created called "Save the Rainforest".

      If someone else had wanted to create the thread, like the guy who kept posting, I guess he would have.

      But any comments on farming of Hinoki trees or killing old trees, that appear in this thread will be deleted. That subject now has its own thread.

      Thanks.

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    26. Top | #54
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by bobpuls View Post
      And with this bombshell we can finish this discussion...
      bobpuls, this is priceless.

      Interesting how this is not being viewed as good from the perspective of reducing population in a country that has long suffered from overpopulation.


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    27. Top | #55
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      bobpuls, this is priceless.

      Interesting how this is not being viewed as good from the perspective of reducing population in a country that has long suffered from overpopulation.


      Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
      Yes this is a different (and interesting) point of view ......

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    29. Top | #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      bobpuls, this is priceless.

      Interesting how this is not being viewed as good from the perspective of reducing population in a country that has long suffered from overpopulation.

      Sent from The Subterranean Workshop by Telepathy
      So you may start a thread "Hiroshima&Nagasaki" ?

    30. Top | #57
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      Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl View Post
      Okay. I am going to ignore the “Save the Rainforest” discussion and note that I am glad it is progressing towards being civil.

      But I am going to say something about Hinoki and it’s playing characteristics.

      Everyone has different feeling in their hands. And everyone has different preferences for what they like.

      I can see how certain styles and ways of playing could cause some to miss what makes Hinoki special. I really can.

      Particularly for drive looping, you could be better off with any number of other kinds of wood. And Hinoki is not going to have that crisp kind of snap or that deeper crunch that some woods have.

      But if your play style and your hand feeling fit with what Hinoki does well, it can feel very special and kind of magical.

      So I get the guys who feel Hinoki is nothing special and where they are coming from.

      But if someone does feel those things a good Hinoki blade is really good for, you will just get it and it will feel MAGICAL.

      You may not feel it or like Hinoki. But that does not mean that someone else is not feeling what they actually ARE FEELING.

      Hinoki is not for everyone. But if you get it, it is kind of like you are an Illuminati.

      And I am not sure there is much to discuss on that. So, when Suga D said it was a “SPINNER’s THANG”, there was a nod and a wink to the other Illuminati. But....maybe.....not everyone can read those hieroglyphics.


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      Hi, please forgive me for digging up an old thread. I have no intention of feeding trolls but do have a genuine interest in blade construction, especially regarding how a blade feels.

      I've been reading about hinoki/cypress over the past feel days and every post that mentions 1-ply hinokis descend into: special, unique, magical, good feeling. But, there is almost no objective description of "what" the "feel" is. You started the thread with adjectives such as "crisp kind of snap or that deeper crunch that some woods have", these descriptions tell a lot about the "what". But even you followed that up with unique and magical.

      Can you please describe the physical and playing characteristics of single ply hinokis in more detail? Ie stiffness, hardness, density, low impact/high impact speed (linear/springy, bouncy "early access" and dampened high-impact, or slow low impact but "reinforced" high-impact), low impact feel (soft/hard, sharp/dull, crisp/mushy?), high impact feel (dense/hollow, captive/repulsive), sound (tick/tock, crack/click, I know this is rubber dependent, but in general), off-center impact feedback etc. I have assumptions, but better to hear from someone who can compare to another blade directly.

      I would just buy one to find out, but I seem to buy more blades than I actually play TT, have a big shipment incoming and quota is already up. Super-thick 1 ply is a gap in my understanding.

      Thanks,

    31. Top | #58
      Suga D is offline
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      To me it feels soft and hard at the same time and it somehow feels as if the ball sticks to the blade for a moment. Maybe that is what people call 'magical'.

      But how do you describe feelings? Hard to find the right words.
      I guess there is a reason why people say you have to try it and feel it for yourself.

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    33. Top | #59
      UpSideDownCarl is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Suga D View Post
      To me it feels soft and hard at the same time and it somehow feels as if the ball sticks to the blade for a moment. Maybe that is what people call 'magical'.

      But how do you describe feelings? Hard to find the right words.
      I guess there is a reason why people say you have to try it and feel it for yourself.
      Yeah, also, Hinoki is a wood where a blade with all Hinoki will not have one speed. It will have a range of speeds. It will be slow on certain shots and much faster on other shots.

      And, lasta, the thing about Hinoki is that, if you make direct contact (drive contact) it does not feel special. If you make tangential contact (brush or loop contact) it grabs the ball harder than anything else.

      What it feels like when it does that is very hard to define and you really do simply have to feel it.

      But you should know, those one ply Hinoki blades, especially the good ones, are pretty expensive and VERY EASY TO BREAK. They are easy to break because they are ONE PLY. They split down the grain of the wood.

      Quote Originally Posted by lasta View Post
      Can you please describe the physical and playing characteristics of single ply hinokis in more detail?


      Sorry. But these blades, only some can feel what they do. And you have to try them to see. Some people feel a boring dish rag when they try Hinoki. Others feel something that there really aren't words to describe it.

      Borrow a blade that is Hinoki from someone at a club who has a Hinoki blade and try it. If it feels like Plain Jane, Hinoki is not for you. If you go, "Oh my, this feels amazing," then you will get how that grab and hold and how the ball propels out of the blade with a ton of spin and speed, you will get what that feels like. But I don't have words for it.

      And the words crisp and crunch were not about Hinoki. They were about other woods that are easier to put words to how they feel.
      Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 03-21-2019 at 12:39 PM.

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    35. Top | #60
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      Thanks Carl,

      I'm actually on the fence about 1 plies. Tried the Septear (7-ply hinoki) and I like the high-impact density, but feels like the speed aspect is hard to "engage" on certain shots (ie inflection point is pushed back), too slow on the over-the-table play.

      Would a much thicker 1 ply amplify this aspect (ie too soft/slow on low impact)? or would the excessive thickness bring the overall speed to a whole new level?

      I'm a short-pips player if that makes a difference, usually prefer hard and dense blades, but always curious.

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