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    1. Top | #81
      FlamingPancake is offline
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin View Post
      I sounds like it will be a game for fat old geezers.

      But seriously, my guess is that the game will require less thought/intelligence as spin will be far less of a factor. The longer rallies will emphasise endurance of mind and body.
      Let's all be happy and say a hearty welcome back to all those forgotten chiselers who nearly killed off the game back in the sixties.
      You are correct that the game will favor athleticism if the openings (serves and short game) have the same characteristics (regarding spin and speed) as they do now. However, it seems that a decrease in average ball spin would significantly change those opening tactics, such that we may not even see players get to the looping "stage" of each point as often as we see today.

      Then again, I have never played with the ball--I just think the various possibilities for tactical changes are intriguing.

    2. Top | #82
      Tinykin is offline
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      They'll get to the looping just as quickly but a single loop won't be as effective, I think. Thus leading to longer rallies overall. Similar to what happened from changing from 38 to 40mm, just more pronounced.

    3. Top | #83
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      Noooo!!! I love my heavy spin make it easy for flat hitters then and since theres less spin it wont kick making it very easy to lob and very hard to stay close to table

    4. Top | #84
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      The ITTF have announced an update everyone! July 3rd 2013

      Source: ETTA

      A year of from now our balls will change.

      1. Manufacturing

      1.1 There is now the possibility of having two types of plastic balls: a) seamless; and b) with seam.

      1.2 The seamless balls are being manufactured in a factory in Guangzhou, let’s call it “Co.X”, according to a new manufacturing process and a new technology with specially designed machines that can produce balls made of plastic composites and without seams. These balls have been tested extensively so far and they are of good quality, except that it is difficult to implement the “veer” test on these balls for lack of a point of reference (the seam). Instead, they will be tested for even distribution of the material all over the sphere of the ball. This is currently the weakness of these balls, the material is not sufficiently evenly distributed all around the sphere resulting in only 30% to 50% of the produced balls passing the ITTF ball tests.

      1.3 There is supposedly an agreement in place between Co.X and DHS and DF. The agreement would state that Co.X only manufacturers the balls, while DHS and DF market and sell the balls wholesale. It is also claimed that it is DHS and DF that funded the research for the production of the seamless ball, which is a considerable investment.

      1.4 There is now apparently a dispute between Co.X on one side and the other two companies, DHS and DF, on the other side. It would seem that all sides are claiming a breach of contract. This is not ITTF business and must be resolved between the companies. However, this dispute has changed the original plans.

      1.5 Now, because of the dispute, DHS and DF have proceeded to produce their own plastic balls, using a different plastic composite material and using the traditional production technology of balls with seams. This is the same as celluloid balls, but using non-celluloid materials.

      1.6 The result is that now we will have plastic balls submitted for approval by Co.X (seamless plastic balls) as well as from DHS and DF. Samples of the new “with seam” plastic balls were given out in Paris to players and others for testing and feedback.

      1.7 Please note that neither the ITTF nor the manufacturers have any obligation to provide samples to anyone. The plastic balls are legal and have always been legal according to the ITTF rules. As long as the plastic balls pass the ITTF ball tests they can be used, even now, without any change in rules. It is the same procedure as if a new racket covering comes on the market.

      1.8 The ITTF will use for ITTF events the plastic balls as of 1 July 2014. Other bodies (national associations, continental federations, leagues, clubs, etc.) can make their own decisions to use plastic or celluloid balls.

      1.9 The celluloid balls will remain legal, and in use for those that want to use them, until their supply is depleted and are no longer available from the manufacturers

      1.10 Initial sufficient supply of plastic balls will be available, according to the manufacturers, by the beginning of 2014, and full supply should be available by July 2014.

      1.11 The strategy by the manufacturers, suppliers and resellers to sell off their stocks of celluloid balls is their own strategy and does not involve the ITTF.

      2. Patent

      2.1 There are three approved patents that we are aware of (maybe many more) with regard to the plastic balls. These three patents of which we are aware are distinctly different and owned by three different entities and do not affect the production of the plastic balls in any way.

      2.2 Co.X owns a patent for the production of the seamless plastic balls using a specific technology and using specific non-celluloid materials. DHS and DF own a different patent for the production of non-celluloid balls with seams and the materials used are different than those used for the seamless balls. Therefore, there is no patent issue between Co. X and DHS and DF.

      2.3 There is also a patent owned by two persons, of which one is related to Dr. Kuhn. I can confirm that the materials described in this patent are DIFFERENT than the materials used for the seamless ball (Co.X) and the materials used for the plastic balls with seams (DHS and DF). This is confirmed by all companies currently involved in the production of plastic balls. Therefore THERE IS NO PATENT ISSUE.

      2.4 I urge all concerned, especially the distributors, NOT to create an issue where it does NOT exist. Do NOT meet with Dr. Kuhn. It is not necessary. And do NOT pay anything to Dr. Kuhn or his relatives or friends with regard to the patent. This is NOT necessary. The supply of balls from China is not affected by this patent.

      2.5 In the unlikely scenario that the patent held by Dr. Kuhn’s connections becomes relevant, then the ITTF will immediately step in to solve the problem. Until then, there is NO ISSUE.

      I hope that this message is clear and that now we can all concentrate on developing our sport and anticipate top quality plastic balls not only from China but from all over the world.

    5. Top | #85
      Mikael Berglund is offline
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      I have written about it in another post, but the plastic balls are not in any way ready for competitive play right now. They weigh to much and are not evenly round. Let's see later what happens with the manufacturing process.

    6. Top | #86
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      our celluloid ball is fine ;_; dammit ITTF

    7. Top | #87
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      Played with the Palio plastic seamless balls yesterday. Only some FH-FH rallies.
      The two biggest differences were the sound (they indeed really sound as if they're broken) and the higher bounce. Playing counter topspins the ball was caught by the upper edge of my bat a lot because I was really surprised by it everytime, but I think you just need some time to get used to it.
      I haven't really tried out competitive play or influence on effect yet but I think I will play some more with them tomorrow.

    8. Top | #88
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      Morning to all. The indications given on the ETTU page indicates that the problem is more a political-economical as a technical problem. in a second phase the technical problem will be faced because, at the end, some balls has to be selled / used to play. At the moment I cannot imagine a ball that weights the 2,7g, is always 40mm in diameter and spring and rotate like the actual one. so, at the end, some adaptions will occur (named improvement?) like bigger diameter and/or higher weight. And this will change again our Table Tennis! I'm sure, we folk, have no power to push in one or in an other way, we can only scream our rage of the "in a too short time forced" changes. Someone said once: this kind of management is called: management by bananas: the product mature by the customer! in the meantime someone makes business with our skin...

    9. Top | #89
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      Quote Originally Posted by FlamingPancake View Post
      You are correct that the game will favor athleticism if the openings (serves and short game) have the same characteristics (regarding spin and speed) as they do now. However, it seems that a decrease in average ball spin would significantly change those opening tactics, such that we may not even see players get to the looping "stage" of each point as often as we see today.
      if service has less spin and bounces higher, does this not mean that you can always flip the return? so it seems to me we will open immediately.

    10. Top | #90
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      Meh i liked table tennis better when it was speed glue + 38 mm ball . The game was so much more dynamic back then , now it seems it will slow down as hell , spin will be more irrelevant , making the game more and more casual . I didn't mind the speed glue ban , because changing glue every few hours was ridiculous , but this seems to much . And i can't help to feel that ITTF has done this to lower the skill level of the sport so that other nations can compete with China . Well guess what it may work at first , but better training and hard work will always prevail in the end .

    11. Top | #91
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      When the ball is slower, you will have more time to adjust the angle and to put more spin on the ball, right?

      I guess it's somehow like thin and thick sponges. One player can create more spin with the thinner sponge, because he has more control. Another player uses short movements and needs a thicker and more elastic sponge to create more spin...

    12. Top | #92
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      2.3 There is also a patent owned by two persons, of which one is related to Dr. Kuhn. I can confirm that the materials described in this patent are DIFFERENT than the materials used for the seamless ball (Co.X) and the materials used for the plastic balls with seams (DHS and DF). This is confirmed by all companies currently involved in the production of plastic balls. Therefore THERE IS NO PATENT ISSUE.
      Strange part...

    13. Top | #93
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      2 of the most interesting things about TT is spin and speed(maybe low bounce as well). Stop trying to neutralize them ITTF!!
      I suspect ITTF are set up by a bunch of people who secretly love tennis and want us to become tennis players as well. No more short games and just keep hitting hard. I can see the end of table tennis history.
      T_T

    14. Top | #94
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      I don't think changing the ball will effect the players so much. players just need some time to get to used to it. The tactics may change but not so much. It is not like all plays will just chop or just attack every ball.
      ITTF is not doing this to end the domination of China, because chinese players are the best because of training more than others and ITTF knows it. They are doing this because manufacturers can get LOTS of money buy selling new equipment to the people.
      After all, the worst part is not the changes of the game because it will not change so much, it is buying new expensive equipment.
      Zhang Jike : Man Of Steel
      Never give up without a fight
      Nothing is more risky than playing table tennis without risk

    15. Top | #95
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      I think this new ball production will lead to new rubbers and blades production which are ostensible using the new technology that suit the play for new ball.
      And, of course because of the gaining profit in marketing.

    16. Top | #96
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      This will mean changes in the game. Less spin, higher bounce, easier to attack, harder to put heavy spin on a loop.
      vu
      In my opinion, if you watch rallies from the 90s and compare to today, the rallies are more dynamic, they are longer, there are more spectacular shots, a defensive player was better able to compete with the top offensive players, someone who had been backed up and forced to lob could counter loop and get back to offense against a top player. In a match there were generally more long rallies than in todays matches where serve and receive is so dominant.

      The one change that did help rallies a bit is the rule on hiding the serve. If that rule had been in place in the 90s there would have been a disproportionate amount more great rallies in a match from the 90s to make it so it was obvious how the ball size has affected match play. But it is still the case. Even though the level of talent is so high in todays game, the number of great rallies per match is noticeably lower than it was in the 90s and if hiding the ball on the serve had been illegal it would have been much, much more of a disparity.

      If they are going to go to plastic and it is indeed necessary to go to plastic because of it being harder to produce celluloid because of how many countries ban the production of the substance, then THEY SHOULD GO BACK TO A 38mm BALL.

      A 40mm ball will make smacking the serve much more a part of the game tactics as a result of less spin and higher bounce. The only way to keep Zhang Jike from attacking the serve is for it to be crazy spinny and super low. If all serves are going to be higher bounce with less spin the top players will learn how to just smack the hell out of the serves. In my opinion, this really could harm the sport.
      Spin Everything.

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    18. Top | #97
      UpSideDownCarl is online now
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      All that being said, if they could go back to a 38 mm celluloid ball, that really would be the best thing.

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    20. Top | #98
      Tinykin is offline
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      I agree with you but no way will the 38mm make a comeback. They have probably destroyed the molds.
      The coming of the plastic ball is a done deal.
      The money generated by every serious player experimenting with new bats and rubbers is too much and has overcome any resistance from any influential source.
      This will be the greatest ever money maker to every manufacturer and seller since TT began.
      Think about it, Tenergy has ruled since it first came out. But now even Butterfly will have to come out with a new version which means that all the manufacturers will go back to level pegging. Stiga et al just love this.
      All above is 'I think'....
      But then again, celluloid balls will be around for many years to come. I can see many leagues not changing and some sort of split into celluloid vs plastic ball tournaments.
      I am not a serious badminton player, but doesn't that sport have different types of shuttlecocks?

    21. Top | #99
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      I am not agree with Carl. It's not like all top players will attack the serve. Remember when 38mm ball changed to 40mm ball many people think all the top players will attack the serve but it didn't happened. Only ZJK can attack every serve.
      If the ball changes then still so many top players can not attack the serves. And if they can then there is not any bad thing. A rally actually starts when a player attacks a long ball with looping. If everyone attack the serve the rally is just stared sooner.

    22. Top | #100
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      The Chinese players are training 24/7 therefore they are the best (i.e. more practice = more wins). Making the game simpler will lower the gap between the Chinese and other players. At professional level the game will become more interesting (if the Chinese players start loosing). However, at amateur level the game will become more boring.

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