Tricky reverse pendulum serve

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 16, 2013

I recently played against a very strong player whose game was mostly based on his serve and 3rd ball. He had a very heavy backspin reverse pendulum serve which would glide off the backhand side of the table (I'm right handed as was he). I couldn't do much other than push it straight back where he was waiting for a strong forehand winner either across or down the line and I couldn't attack since it was gliding too wide off the table and was loaded with backspin side spin. Is there a way of playing against this or is it one of those things like a lefty serving out wide to a right handed player?

Shiro · Aug 16, 2013

If you want to counter his play style just continue to read his serves and return them correctly and if he trys to do a third ball attack try your best ability to try to block it or if your fast enough counter loop with your backhand or forehand

MDanielCRO · Aug 16, 2013

Samuraisam 3467 said:
I recently played against a very strong player whose game was mostly based on his serve and 3rd ball. He had a very heavy backspin reverse pendulum serve which would glide off the backhand side of the table (I'm right handed as was he). I couldn't do much other than push it straight back where he was waiting for a strong forehand winner either across or down the line and I couldn't attack since it was gliding too wide off the table and was loaded with backspin side spin. Is there a way of playing against this or is it one of those things like a lefty serving out wide to a right handed player?

That serve is very dangerous, if you have good backhand flick you should brush the ball over the table with banana flick, or if it so heavy backspin that you can, you could try to leave it short with your fh side push

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 16, 2013

MDanielCRO said:
That serve is very dangerous, if you have good backhand flick you should brush the ball over the table with banana flick, or if it so heavy backspin that you can, you could try to leave it short with your fh side push

Yes the serve is very spinny and drifts long off the side making it hard to flick and the push has to be really dug into the ball making it go long enough for him to attack, otherwise it would drop into the net. I tried waiting for the ball to drift further off the side to attack with my backhand however at that point the ball is far too low to spin back up again.

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 16, 2013

And also he could disguise his serve to topspin very well

vvk1 · Aug 16, 2013

How would a reverse pendulum serve glide wide off the backhand side of the table (for a RH person)? I can understand how the spin on a normal pendulum serve would do that, but not a reverse pendulum serve.

UpSideDownCarl · Aug 16, 2013

Well, the first thing is, if it is going wide off the side of the table, can you hit it around the net? If it goes off the side and you can let it drop, you should be able to go around the net. If it even goes a foot wide you can get it around the net. If you do that well, and can touch the ball from low, below the level of the table, you can get the ball to roll and that is an un-returnable return.

When a lefty goes wide to the forehand side with a serve, that is one of the best returns for that. And if this is going wide to your backhand side and going off the side, you should be able to let it drop enough to take it around the net. If you do that once or twice he might start using a different serve.

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 16, 2013

vvk1 said:
How would a reverse pendulum serve glide wide off the backhand side of the table (for a RH person)? I can understand how the spin on a normal pendulum serve would do that, but not a reverse pendulum serve.

i think he stood slightly wider on the left side of the table and by long off the side I meant by only a bit

HLDang · Aug 16, 2013

Samuraisam 3467 said:
i think he stood slightly wider on the left side of the table and by long off the side I meant by only a bit

More like he contacts the ball on the inward stroke rather than the typical outward when it comes to reverse pendulum. Thus making the spin go outward towards the backhand.

Iczy · Aug 17, 2013

Perhaps you should adjust your position on receiving serve. If your left arm is parallel to the left white line of the table, then you leave the left side open because when the ball goes off the left side, you cannot reach it with strong counter attack. I saw players standing more to the left side, like the left corner points to their abdomen, then they can attack any ball that goes off the left line. But beware of the short parallel serve along your right side. You have to have a good footwork to cover it.

Dan · Aug 19, 2013

There have been great posts to the question. I was just going to add, you could try to touch his serves short, whereby you try to make your receive with a minimum of two bounces on his side so your forcing your opponent to push rather than attack. You can then make the first attack once he has pushed long.

Practicing a short receive with different players short serves or multi ball is a good way to gain good knowledge and feeling to touch the ball short trying to keep it low over the net.

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 19, 2013

Dan said:
There have been great posts to the question. I was just going to add, you could try to touch his serves short, whereby you try to make your receive with a minimum of two bounces on his side so your forcing your opponent to push rather than attack. You can then make the first attack once he has pushed long.

Practicing a short receive with different players short serves or multi ball is a good way to gain good knowledge and feeling to touch the ball short trying to keep it low over the net.

Normally I do touch it short with a bit of backspin however with his serve it seemed to kick off my rubber and end up being long anyways, otherwise it would go into the net if I simply put my bat there

Dan · Aug 20, 2013

Samuraisam 3467 said:
Normally I do touch it short with a bit of backspin however with his serve it seemed to kick off my rubber and end up being long anyways, otherwise it would go into the net if I simply put my bat there

Ah yes I know this. Okay the best thing to do if your struggling to touch short, is to simply dig the ball long however varying your placement every time. If you vary your recevie your opponent will not be able to make a great third ball attack, allowing you to get into the rally.

chuklebolt · Aug 20, 2013

Samuraisam 3467 said:
i think he stood slightly wider on the left side of the table and by long off the side I meant by only a bit

I still find it weird. If it's a pendulum serve by a right-hander it would curve "away" from the table and with reverse pendulum it will curve "into" to stay on the table. It would still be difficult to deal with if the second bounce is near the edge because people will be more likely to misjudge the timing to play the shot. Anyway, I think Dan's, Iczy's, and Carl's advice are probably what you should try out starting with Dan's first because it seems to be easiest and can be very effective. If u can master pushing deep into both corners with good spin, keeping the ball low, and disguise ur racket face, the server will have a hard time using his crushing 3rd ball and thus it should be much easier for u to block or even attack the 4th ball.

Well... when I think about it, this particular reverse pendulum might just be lacking the side spin to make it curls back into the table and just simply drift out wide.

Or maybe it's just too speedy to change direction on the bounce.

HLDang · Aug 21, 2013

chuklebolt said:
I still find it weird. If it's a pendulum serve by a right-hander it would curve "away" from the table and with reverse pendulum it will curve "into" to stay on the table. It would still be difficult to deal with if the second bounce is near the edge because people will be more likely to misjudge the timing to play the shot. Anyway, I think Dan's, Iczy's, and Carl's advice are probably what you should try out starting with Dan's first because it seems to be easiest and can be very effective. If u can master pushing deep into both corners with good spin, keeping the ball low, and disguise ur racket face, the server will have a hard time using his crushing 3rd ball and thus it should be much easier for u to block or even attack the 4th ball.

Well... when I think about it, this particular reverse pendulum might just be lacking the side spin to make it curls back into the table and just simply drift out wide. Or maybe it's just too speedy to change direction on the bounce.

I'll refer back to my prior comment. It's all about the point of contact for a reverse pendulum to make the ball drift off the backhand side like a regular pendulum.

Look at Zhang Jike's stroke for his serve at 0:48 for example:

At this part of the video you can see him do the typical "away from forehand" then after awhile he switches the contact on the inward stroke to make it go "away from backhand".

Samuraisam 3467 · Aug 21, 2013

HLDang said:
I'll refer back to my prior comment. It's all about the point of contact for a reverse pendulum to make the ball drift off the backhand side like a regular pendulum.

Look at Zhang Jike's stroke for his serve at 0:48 for example:

At this part of the video you can see him do the typical "away from forehand" then after awhile he switches the contact on the inward stroke to make it go "away from backhand".

i think it was the amount of speed and direction which got it to bounce towards the side and the backspin made it glide just long of the white line off the side.

chuklebolt · Aug 21, 2013

hmmm if it's the one at .46 i think that's just pendulum, and on .50 it's reverse curving "away from forehand"

dtsang · Aug 21, 2013

Sounds tough !

Tricky reverse pendulum serve

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