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  1. scoops is offline
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    #1

    wood or carbon?

    Tonight, same rubbers, but seem to play much better. DHS Goldarc3 on Xiom Offensive S instead of TBS. Does anyone else play better with wood blade rather than a carbon one. Rubber seemed all mushy on the TBS, I'm no expert but a noticeable difference. Your thoughts on this............

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    Oh my god, living the dream.....................who is!

  2. Dave_Pringuer is offline
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    #2
    I recently ordered rubbers just before a training camp for my Carbon blade but they did not come in time so i have some really old tenergy 05 on both sides. One of the people i went with had a spare bat in which he uses a Joola Sheik blade (wooden) i was lucky it had tenergy so i thought i would try it out on the second day - the first day i was complaining about the rubbers not gripping and my backhand sometimes dropping due to the dead rubbers but i also found that sometimes wooden blades can suit better for some different styles - just because it is wood doesn't mean it is slower than some carbon

  3. decoy is offline
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    #3
    despise carbon with a passion

  4. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #4
    This is my opinion. Advantages to Carbon: extra speed, reduces vibration and reduces the effect of the inconsistencies of wood on your shot.

    Downside of Carbon: extra speed, reduces ability to feel the ball, reduces dwell time.

    Substances like Arylate and Zylon when used with Carbon, are used to help give more dwell time, spin and control.

    Advantages to wood: More dwell time, more feeling, better touch, better control, better spin.

    I would take wood over carbon any day.

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    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-19-2013 at 12:25 PM.
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  5. Alborz is offline
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    #5
    Wood usually have more feel, control, dwell time and spin and carbon usually have more speed and it is more bouncy.
    Pros technique is very solid so they doesn't need more control and feel but they need extra speed and a more bouncy bat, so they usually use carbon blades.
    Wood is better for amateurs because they doesn't have a perfect technique and they need more feel and control than speed.
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  6. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Alborz
    Wood usually have more feel, control, dwell time and spin and carbon usually have more speed and it is more bouncy.
    Pros technique is very solid so they doesn't need more control and feel but they need extra speed and a more bouncy bat, so they usually use carbon blades.
    Wood is better for amateurs because they doesn't have a perfect technique and they need more feel and control than speed.
    To date, the only two pros who were using a Carbon blade when they won the world Championship are Zhang Jike and Werner Schlager. And Zhang Jike is using a blade with Carbon and Arylate. All other world champions were using wood when they won the title. I think that is worth knowing.

    On the current Chinese National Team Ma Lin uses all wood, Wang Hao uses all wood, Ma Long, I believe is using an all wood blade, Xu Xin uses an all wood blade.

    I have got to be honest, that is enough for me.

    But wood is definitely better for players who are not at the elite level.

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    Alborz, Cornerer and 1 other

    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-19-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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  7. Cornerer is offline
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    #7
    There might be another way of thinking about this ... maybe the pros' attacks are too powerful so they don't need very fast blades or ball will fly way off the table area? :P
    There are considerable number of young talented players in our place who use carbon blades(really fast ones).

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    #8
    agreed with cornerer...

  9. Der_Echte is offline
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by UpSideDownCarl
    This is my opinion. Advantages to Carbon: extra speed, reduces vibration and reduces the effect of the inconsistencies of wood on your shot.

    Downside of Carbon: extra speed, reduces ability to feel the ball, reduces dwell time.

    Substances like Arylate and Zylon when used with Carbon, are used to help give more dwell time, spin and control.

    Advantages to wood: More dwell time, more feeling, better touch, better control, better spin.

    I would take wood over carbon any day.
    Carl, maybe I'll feel like you one day, but the blades I have loved the best have been TBS, Calix II, Arirang, and Inca. These are all OFF class composite blades with great feel and balance of power and spin.

    Maybe one day I'll run across a wood blade I will love in the OFF range, but I haven't yet. An All wood Andro Core OFF so far has been the closest.

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  10. phillypong is offline
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    #10
    i have to agree with Carl on this one
    most top players use just plain wood blades, and there are enough of those that are very fast

    for amateur players , even very good ones , wood is the way to go , because less springy, more dwell, spin

    the arylate etc... has been added to the carbon blades to imitate a wood blade

    i am a fan of the Stiga wood blades, but there must be good wood ones in every big manufacturers range i suppose
    Last edited by phillypong; 02-12-2014 at 11:00 PM.

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    #11
    Without skills, training, and experience, it doesn't matter what blade you use. Just use what ever style blade compliments or helps your style of play. All the top players in the world are up there not because of their blades but because of their skills and talent. I switch from off+ wood to off+ carbon and I like it allot better, but this is just for me and I can't say the same for anybody else.

    I've seen people keep trying different blades and rubbers way too many times and blaming it on equipment and not looking at what they need to improve in terms of skills.

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    Last edited by redonix76; 09-19-2013 at 10:21 PM.

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    #12
    I've tried other players' composite blades at the local clubs and felt that nothing really beats the feeling of all-wood blades. Even if it provides "extra power and speed", I don't think there is much of a change except that it has no feeling on the ball. That's just my opinion though.

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  13. Der_Echte is offline
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    #13
    I can say this about the pundit coach recommendation for ALL+ wood blade and control rubbers. As much as that equipment is too slow for me and not enough spin, every time I long term test such a setup, especially the last 5 months I used Galaxy 896 with Aurus/XP 2008... Whenever I do that, then go to the TBS or now, the Arirang, my game suddenly got better. While I play that slower setup, my level and match performance is still good, but it seems to serve as a prep for match play with my preferred setups.
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  14. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Der_Echte
    I can say this about the pundit coach recommendation for ALL+ wood blade and control rubbers. As much as that equipment is too slow for me and not enough spin, every time I long term test such a setup, especially the last 5 months I used Galaxy 896 with Aurus/XP 2008... Whenever I do that, then go to the TBS or now, the Arirang, my game suddenly got better. While I play that slower setup, my level and match performance is still good, but it seems to serve as a prep for match play with my preferred setups.
    Sort of how baseball players swing the bat with the doughnut weight on it before batting so when they swing the bat while up, it feels lighter. Hahahah.

    But the all wood thing, when you are learning strokes, helps your body learn something by feel that you will not feel the same way with carbon.
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  15. Der_Echte is offline
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    #15
    Gotta agree and disagree with Carl in same sentence.

    Well, unless it is some special blades like TBS, Arirang, etc... on most carbon blades, the ball simply leaves the bat too fast for that right kinda "fell" I am accustomed to. The Galaxy T-8 speed monster special is one example. Almost nothing tames that sucker.

    On TBS or Arirang or Inca, with Evolution, I can really play a control game, then flip the switch on power when I need it. All+ blades and control rubbers do not give me that possibility. They do, however, force me into making several shots to prepare a high pressure or finishing shot. That translates into extra control and execution when I transition to TBS/Arirang with Evo. It is almost a pre-school prep for a big boy bat, but I wont call it. Anyone who wants to coin that term feel to trademark it.

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  16. sebas-aguirre is offline
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    #16
    Quote Originally Posted by phillypong
    i have to agree with Carl on this one
    most top players use just plain wood blades, and there are enough of those that are very fast

    for amateur players , even very good ones , wood is the way to go , because less springy, more dwell, spin
    the arylate etc... has been added to the carbon blades to imitate a wood blade

    i am a fan of the Stiga wood blades, but theremust be good wood ones in every big manufacturers range i supose
    look at ittf ranking top 10 players shakehand:
    ma long -> composite
    zhang jike -> composite
    boll -> composite
    ovtcharov -> composite
    chuang -> composite
    yan an -> composite
    fan zhendong -> wood

    the ones who tend to use all wood are penholds (wang hao, ma lin, xu xin). I think penholds use all wood because their stroke is different, they are able to impart more power to the ball with their arms so don't need extra power from blade.

    the other ones who use all wood are women (ding ning, li xiaoxia, etc). in this case it's probably because their game is not so based on power but more on repetition and placement.
    but even some women have started to use blades like viscaria, etc (feng tianwei, guo yan)
    Last edited by sebas-aguirre; 09-20-2013 at 10:26 PM.

  17. Tinykin is offline
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    #17
    I get the feeling that pros using carbon blades in great numbers is a new thing since about 5 years ago. Maybe it was the Schlager effect or they upped the blade speed to compensate for the absence of speedglue.
    Before then, they tended to use allround or OFF- 5-ply blades.
    Again it's only an impression not backed up by anything objective.

  18. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykin
    I get the feeling that pros using carbon blades in great numbers is a new thing since about 5 years ago. Maybe it was the Schlager effect or they upped the blade speed to compensate for the absence of speedglue.
    Before then, they tended to use allround or OFF- 5-ply blades.
    Again it's only an impression not backed up by anything objective.
    I also think the technology that has come in with those blades that have substances like Arylate with the carbon which add a lot of dwell time and control but you still get the speed of Carbon have something to do with this as well. It is true, right now there are more players using Carbon than ever before. And I do think those substances help make the Carbon blades play a lot better. I would use a Timo Boll ALC (I like it more than the TBS but I would use TBS as well). But I prefer a blade where you can feel the ball a little better than with those blades.

    Right now I am using TB ZLF and I can feel the ball as well as if it was all wood.

    I think this has something to do with what Der_Echte is saying too about why he likes the new school Carbon blades that have something like Arylate with the Carbon. Those blades do have the control and the dwell time. I still don't like that it is harder to feel the ball with them. But they work. I know, for me, feelign is more important than anything else from a blade. But not everyone is in that boat. I know pros who play with a TB ALC who use my blade and then their blade and have trouble telling what the difference is. Whereas, when I use them, I can tell instantly.

    But, I think everyone can have their own preferences.

    And Der_Echte, I think, if playing with a blade that gets you to keep control and keep the ball on the table for longer because you have less power to put the points away, makes you play better when you go back to a faster blade where you have the extra pop, that sounds like a good training technique. It probably made your stroke more efficient so you could get more power from less effort as well, which would still translate into more power when you go back to the faster blade. But, when someone has technique that is good enough to use a Carbon blade, and they like them, I think that is fine. I just know I like the feel of wood.

    By the way Der_Echte, have you tried any of these blades: Stiga Clipper, Stiga Rosewood XO, Stiga Ebenholz V or VII, or Stiga Intensity?

    I think the Rosewood XO may be too light for you. I think one of the heavier Clippers or the Ebenholz VII may be really good for you. That blade is a beast. I know, you are using that new blade from Nexy which does sound pretty cool: Hinoki and Aramid/Carbon or something.

    Oh Yeah, one more thing: sebas-aguirre, are you sure ML is using a composite blade? I thought he was using all wood for some reason. I don't know why I thought that though.
    Last edited by UpSideDownCarl; 09-21-2013 at 02:54 AM.
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  19. UpSideDownCarl is offline
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    #19
    I guess another one more thing. Wang Liqin, as much power as he has, and he is shakehand, always used all wood: Stiga Clipper for the most part.
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  20. bachikho is offline
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    #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sebas-aguirre
    look at ittf ranking top 10 players shakehand:
    ma long -> composite
    zhang jike -> composite
    in these pictures i don't think ZJK or ML use composite (just pure wood with painjob, because alc layer cannot be too thick like that):





    Last edited by bachikho; 09-21-2013 at 04:15 AM.

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