Players You Dislike

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as a spectator I find ma long a bit annoying.
between each point you have to wait till he dries his hand on the table like 5 times :D
I like zhang jike and xu xin from the chinese team, samsonov, schlager, kreanga...
I don't like so much ovtcharov and saive.
li ching is very funny, I once saw him in a tournament, he was angry and kicking the advertisement signs next to the playing area.
you don't see that part in the ittf videos.... :D
 
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Lol you all have funny responses as to why you dislike someone. I doubt any of you have ever played professionally and surely none of you have ever had some big prize money on the line otherwise all of your reasons would be moot. As for the arrogance and loud cho's I don't see any problem with it. Most of them are arrogant on the court because it's a good thing. You want to be confident in your shots and you want to make sure you can get inside your opponents head so that you can win the match. It's all very logical. As for showing too much emotion I doubt you'd say any of these things in any of the other sports you watch. When someone wins a title or shoots a winning goal/point you guys have no problem with them running around the court or screaming then why should this be any different?

As for RSM, that was luck of the draw in 2004. Wang Hao had a great game against his fellow Chinese because frankly he knows how to beat them. And RSM beat Timo for the first time in months because of his Timo's back injury. WLQ or Ma Lin would have beaten RSM in the finals because they're way more aggressive than WH was at that time. It took the Chinese a while before they learned how to beat RSM. By the 2008 Olympics he was pretty easy to beat because they made people like WJJ play like him and they learned how to defeat his style. He's not lazy at all, he simply has an outdated style. Everyone knows how to beat him now because everyone has seen his style from the Olympics and past tournaments. Not to mention that his status as number one in Korea had dropped down significantly since the Olympics it's no wonder he loses to a lot of people.

As far as edge balls and what not, I doubt you'd know the common courtesy in tournaments. Typically you don't argue with the ref unless it would be your point. The opponent basically isn't supposed to argue with the ref for two reasons. They may not have seen whether the ball went up or down, or they simply would be biased regardless of the actual result. Either way you look at it the person who has been granted the point should rarely argue with the ref because no matter what you do you'd look to be at fault. If you give the point away the match becomes psychological and your sponsors/coaches are angry at you; if you argue that your opponent is correct the ref will just yellow card both of you. So either way you lose both financially and psychologically.

As for my personal least favorite player, I'd say Waldner. Only in his playing style. I don't like people who are all about the point. Waldner rarely every out aggressed his opponent as you can see from his signature drop shot. I liked WLQ and MLong for refusing to drop shot and just smash your way to victory. I also hate that people consider him the best player ever. They compare him to everyone of today, but what they don't realize is that a lot of players are better at the sport because of him. So to compare him to them is a bit unfair because he played a completely different game. 21 point system, hidden service, 38 mm ball, speed glue era, same colored rubber on both sides. It's like comparing Babe Ruth to today's players when our technology is so completely different from 80 years ago. TT would be the same. To compare carbon blades with Tenergy or the rubbers of today to the rubbers and blades of yesterday is like comparing a car from 1990 to now in 2011 it's just not the same.
 
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says Do you guys have streaks where you are just not playing...
says Do you guys have streaks where you are just not playing...
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At least these players may be arrogant, but good enough to be.... (they are pro's after all) before we start 'disliking' them, lets look at the 'basement players' in some of our clubs who refuse to have a knock with anyone they feel is 'inferior' (how can that be, when they are rubbish themselves lol)..... perfect example is the club I played in before, JAGS, and Fusion TT... makes me suppress a laugh every time I see it))) these frustrated 'wannabe' players know who they are ;)))

I am sure we all have players like that in our clubs - so please get off the Pro's backs and take a closer look at the arrogant pple you have closer to home? ;)))
 
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The 'overreaction' and 'arrogance' comes with playing style. Waldner's style was never based on power, but on tactics and brilliant placement. When he wins a point he would already be thinking about how to go on. Yes he has a pokerface, but that doesn't necessarily make him arrogant.
As for excessive 'cho-ing', that is just a normal response when you win a point after putting in a lot of effort and power. I agree it is annoying, but for me it isn't really a reason to hate a player.
Bad behaviour is never good, but as Richard said it is understandable considering what's at stake. For example Maze and Chen Weixing show bad behaviour often, but both have very high entertainment value in their game. Also Chen would be the first to clap his hands when the opponent makes a brilliant shot.
It is good that no player is the same in emotion/style/behaviour and maybe even equipment. It makes our sport colorful.
 
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says Check out my Podcast Talkin' Smash!
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I don't agree. Just because there is money on the line doesn't mean we should see some of the performances we get from these players. Do you think John MacEnroe was a good ambassador for the sport of tennis? His tantrums were appalling. Professional athletes are not just paid by sponsors to win, they are paid to uphold an image and reputation for their sponsors. Poor behaviour in table tennis is no excuse for any prize money.

And whether or not people dislike players because they are arrogant or not is based on individuals opinions really. Whether cho-ing be good for players or irrelevant, if someone finds cho-ing annoying they are probably going to dislike a player who does it excessively and also if people think a player is arrogant that may be a reason to dislike them too.

Everyone has different reasons for disliking players, you can't justify whether anyone is right or wrong in this thread with any real weighting.

But I guess that's what this thread was designed for, to get a little heated debate going on :p
 
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Well Matt I hav to agree with u but then u have to admit that in general the behaviour in tt isn't that bad at all. There's just a few times that it occurs in the pro's circuit, so I find that tolerable. This goes for making noise as well. You can just turn the volume down :p Anyway if you let yourself get annoyed by those things you'll probably miss some exciting table tennis moments. So that's why I think one should be open to any match at all time, regardless the players. Of course you have favourites who you enjoy to watch more, but badasses can play some pretty nice rallies too ;)
 
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Mr Richard ,
No offense intended ... but you are going against the primary reason table tennis tops other sports. Its the variety of styles that table tennis allows for makes it so special.
The very fact that a very skillful 65 year old with enough tact can beat the hell out of very fit and capable man in 20s makes table tennis the sport it is .
So for the simple reason waldner hit drop shots and WLQ does not makes neither one a lesser player.
I agree with you on the point that its very unfair to compare players across eras. Sports is what it is because nobody can be the "greatest ever" , which is very difficult to digest but that is the hard truth. Its more apparent in sports that pitches one guy against the other, thats why nobody can say if Rod Laver or Federer is greatest in tennis or whether Ali or Foreman or Tyson was the greatest in boxing . Its all about great match ups and there it ends.
Coming back to your original point, the greatness of table tennis as a sport depends solely on the point that it allows for such variety and instead of despising it we should embrace it.


Lol you all have funny responses as to why you dislike someone. I doubt any of you have ever played professionally and surely none of you have ever had some big prize money on the line otherwise all of your reasons would be moot. As for the arrogance and loud cho's I don't see any problem with it. Most of them are arrogant on the court because it's a good thing. You want to be confident in your shots and you want to make sure you can get inside your opponents head so that you can win the match. It's all very logical. As for showing too much emotion I doubt you'd say any of these things in any of the other sports you watch. When someone wins a title or shoots a winning goal/point you guys have no problem with them running around the court or screaming then why should this be any different?

As for RSM, that was luck of the draw in 2004. Wang Hao had a great game against his fellow Chinese because frankly he knows how to beat them. And RSM beat Timo for the first time in months because of his Timo's back injury. WLQ or Ma Lin would have beaten RSM in the finals because they're way more aggressive than WH was at that time. It took the Chinese a while before they learned how to beat RSM. By the 2008 Olympics he was pretty easy to beat because they made people like WJJ play like him and they learned how to defeat his style. He's not lazy at all, he simply has an outdated style. Everyone knows how to beat him now because everyone has seen his style from the Olympics and past tournaments. Not to mention that his status as number one in Korea had dropped down significantly since the Olympics it's no wonder he loses to a lot of people.

As far as edge balls and what not, I doubt you'd know the common courtesy in tournaments. Typically you don't argue with the ref unless it would be your point. The opponent basically isn't supposed to argue with the ref for two reasons. They may not have seen whether the ball went up or down, or they simply would be biased regardless of the actual result. Either way you look at it the person who has been granted the point should rarely argue with the ref because no matter what you do you'd look to be at fault. If you give the point away the match becomes psychological and your sponsors/coaches are angry at you; if you argue that your opponent is correct the ref will just yellow card both of you. So either way you lose both financially and psychologically.

As for my personal least favorite player, I'd say Waldner. Only in his playing style. I don't like people who are all about the point. Waldner rarely every out aggressed his opponent as you can see from his signature drop shot. I liked WLQ and MLong for refusing to drop shot and just smash your way to victory. I also hate that people consider him the best player ever. They compare him to everyone of today, but what they don't realize is that a lot of players are better at the sport because of him. So to compare him to them is a bit unfair because he played a completely different game. 21 point system, hidden service, 38 mm ball, speed glue era, same colored rubber on both sides. It's like comparing Babe Ruth to today's players when our technology is so completely different from 80 years ago. TT would be the same. To compare carbon blades with Tenergy or the rubbers of today to the rubbers and blades of yesterday is like comparing a car from 1990 to now in 2011 it's just not the same.
 
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@ PingPongPom Sponsors don't pay TT Pros at all. They are given stipends to pay for travel, equipment, and some training programs. The prize money won at tournaments is what pays the bills for Professionals. Outside of coaching or endorsement deals tournament prize money is the primary source of income for the elite professionals. Leagues and other such events also help to pay them as well. For a professional to "break even" they have to reach the quarters or round of 16. If they don't then they actually lose money for the tournament and the more they lose the less the sponsors are likely to renew their contracts. So to say that it money shouldn't drive their emotions is just wishful thinking. And please don't misunderstand me here. I never said that it was okay for them to act that way just that it's understandable and shouldn't be a reason to dislike them as a player/person. I also don't think John McEnroe is a good example to compare because he was paid so much more than what most of the top elite TT players make in a year. Plus he was the bad boy image of TT and that helped them grow the sport. It wasn't pleasant to see, but we all have to agree that the "bad boy" image helps grow more viewers to any sport. There is probably nothing more entertaining than seeing someone destroy something and when players like Michael Maze kick in the barriers or rip off the advertising tape it's hilarious to watch.

@ttMonster - I don't think you're disagreeing with me at all and no offense taken. I think I just miscommunicated. I never meant that a person shouldn't be able to play the way they do. I absolutely agree that there is no sport close to the diversity of this one in playing styles. I just personally enjoy aggressive styles and dislike "cheap"/defensive styles. Do I think Waldner was a genius and evolved the sport of Table Tennis, absolutely, would I rather watch Waldner or WLQ in a smash rally definitely the latter. I mean I drop shot in tournaments as well, but I'd prefer to win with an aggressive shot if I can. I'm just not at the level I want to be at yet to smash/loop everything that comes my way.
 
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@Richard
That last part of ur post seems to imply that u find drop shots easier than smashes. That is only the case when the opponents lob is too close to the net and with not much spin. Waldner's dropshots were often against normal spinless balls, not necessarily lobs or short after the net. The fact that he made them bounce twice on the opponents half shows a huge amount of feeling and control. But there's nothing wrong with that u prefer smashing of course. But in a lot of situations smashing is easier than dropshotting, so I wouldn't call dropshotting 'cheap'.
 
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Um I would smash a dead ball drop shotting is actually quite easy when you know what the spin is. What I find cheap about the tactic is that you force your opponent in making an error based in athleticism not in skill. Having to run up and make another defensive shot is less fun to watch and causes more errors in timing rather than technique. I'd much rather over power my opponent and at least give him the benefit of the doubt in hitting an edge or having me make a mistake than forcing an error that has less to do about my aggressiveness and more to do about him being completely out of position.

And when you lob you typically put side or topspin on the ball not dead. If the ball is dead or you try to make it dead you are more likely to send it long. And I find dropshotting cheap because it is only gives the aggressor the advantage when someone who is lobbing is already at a disadvantage. But to each his own as again I say I don't mean to say you shouldn't have the right to do it just that I dislike when it is done rather than my personal preference.
 
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