Ghost Serve

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I was playing a player at my club, and he had complete control over the Mizutani serve i had been working on for ages, which worked well with most people, but he had trouble returning my topspin or backspin tomahawk serve, so I mostly used that. You should have a variety if serves, and if one works well, use it frequently with some backspin serves as well.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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I was playing a player at my club, and he had complete control over the Mizutani serve i had been working on for ages, which worked well with most people, but he had trouble returning my topspin or backspin tomahawk serve, so I mostly used that. You should have a variety if serves, and if one works well, use it frequently with some backspin serves as well.

You have accepted in your heart one of the basic foundations of successful serving... variety, change and suddenness. That is good. I can tell you firsthand, at the lower amature levels, simply learning how to serve effectively can bring you up a level or two.

In 2008, I was a 1400ish level play, maybe low end of average USA club player level. I had to go to Iraq for work in the Army for a year+. My first camp had a couple of crappy tables in a rec center on a rough concrete floor with not so good room, but it was better than nothing. A unit from the Romanian Army was there and several of them would play daily. They ranged from 800 level to 1600 level and showed up daily. For my first two months, I could at least play some and practice a little. Then I had to go to a remote camp for a year, almost no one there played.

So, all I could do was practice serves. There was a cheap table setup in a trailer with the internet phones soldiers used to call back home. I would bring my small bucket of practice balls, stand behind the endline and practice the Ghost serve or a low double bounce serve, sometimes my topspin serve that looks like cut. Since the sound of 3-5 balls bouncing on table and floor make a lot of noise, I would limit myself to 3-5 minutes of practice as a balance of respecting the ones calling and myself getting at least some practice.

That one year of practicing a few times per week for only a few minutes was enough for me to develop touch and timing and develop a few good serves from the same arm slot and serve motion. I did a couple tourneys after I got back and without any other practice, my level was low 1600s. That isn't a great level to brag about, but it was a level or two better than I was. This is an example of improving without a coach right next to you. I had only a forum friend show me a couple things in person one day and a few pointers on the TT forums. The improvement was 90% due to improved serving and follow up. The other ten percent was due to understanding spin and serves better.

I say this to anyone who wants to grow from lower amature levels, especially where there is not a coach or a club within a reasonable proximity. It can be done, but it would be better to be in a real full time club. A few years of those lessons and club/tourney play in Korea moved me up another two levels. Sometimes, a club or coach isn't near you, but usually internet access is, so these TT forums are great ways to connect, share, and grow.
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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haha Der_Echte, you making this thread too complicated now. Even though what you saying is true lol

I'm not making anything complicated. If it is complicated, I sort through he bull crap and bring out the good stuff. In fact, I am into simplifying things. I do that well, but when it comes time to "break it down and get technical" you have learned I can ramble on with the best of them. The technical aspects of the touch/timing/concept of that topspin serve where the contact is on the bottom is s foreign idea to most and I had to explain it.

But one thing I like you to challenge you is to try and FH flip-kill my ghost serves:)

You are right, I wouldn't FH flick kill a fly, that part of my game is not yet developed. I dare you to try that crap to my BH wing though, it just might get sent back to China with a stamp on it "Return to Sender" haha.

If your heavy serve is that heavy and low, it isn't the ghost serve that is so close to net and doesn't go out. You need a bounce a few cm over net to get it that short, that is why I say it is not a good serve vs a decent amature. Now it sounds like your version of the ghost serve is a very PROPER low, short heavy underspin serve that makes it difficult for an opponent to commit to an aggressive flip - risk reward might not be favorable for him in that moment. That is one good serve, it also controls opponent's receive options and opens up your 3rd ball attack. You will not get me to doubt the "goodness" of your ghost serve, I just think it is a good regular low/tight short serve.

I say it everywhere. It is important to early on establish that you have a VERY heavy underspin. Sometimes, like you mentioned, you get one put into the net, even from a good amature player. The better ones adjust soon. That is good for me, I want them to adjust, because it sets up the effectiveness of my best serve - the no-spin or light underspin serve if I kept it low and tight like you do Tony. I get so many chances to attack from doing just these two serves, just like I am sure you get.


I can get it to bounce really low and soft, best thign to do is just push it back.
That is a sign of a very high quality proper short serve.I agree that no single serve will ever win you point. It is all about strategy/plan and all the serves, 3rd ball, opponents condition all added together etc

Most time where I used the ghost serve succesful is when the player chop/push the ball directly into the net - they didn't pick up the heavy underspin, or they totally mis-intrepete it and the ball bounce more than 2 times on they side (normally younger unexperience player who see my "heavy" action and thought ball is going long)
That is another sign you do very well with the smoothness and timing/touch of your serve. A sign you have practiced a LOT and it profits you. Of course the better players will do better vs it and of course you use that nicer lower short underspin serve to paralyze them in terms of receive options that enhance your 3rd ball attacking options.

But never the less, I get my students to practice it, so they can understand more about spin and they can use it in any undrespin related touch/control.

I say it time and time again. (I agree with you) There is much profit in developing the ghost serve as it practices the same foundations of timing, touch, impact, first bounce, smooth stroke, the use of all the body, but especially the difficult part of wrist timing/acceleration. Even though the ghost serve as we see on the Ma Lin vid... it is a demo serve and it is a few cm high. Despite this, you do the same thing to make the ghost serve that you must do to make a proper tight low short underspin serve. It is absolutely worthwhile to practice it, that serve can help one develop other killer serves with the same principles of touch and timing.

Please see my text in bold in quote.
 
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Yeah sorry I'm not active in here since I got an exam coming next week. ;)
What I meant was actually the variation in spin: under under means underspin serve followed by underspin serve, under top means underspin serve followed by topspin serve.
By alternating your patterns a lot you can force a lot of concentration of the opponent. If you can also match him in the rest of your play this can give you the edge you need for winning. :D
 
says 2023 Certified Organ Donor
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Well, practice away, after you get the idea of your bat direction and angle at contact, the loose grip, and the way to accellerate the bat, it will work out. Might take a bit to get used to that, but once you get the hang of it, you will be good to go. I ws a hammerhead and it took me maybe 10 sessions just to get 1/2 my serves short, then another 10 tries to get this serve down. Brighter players will of course do it sooner.
 
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