haha Der_Echte, you making this thread too complicated now. Even though what you saying is true lol
I'm not making anything complicated. If it is complicated, I sort through he bull crap and bring out the good stuff. In fact, I am into simplifying things. I do that well, but when it comes time to "break it down and get technical" you have learned I can ramble on with the best of them. The technical aspects of the touch/timing/concept of that topspin serve where the contact is on the bottom is s foreign idea to most and I had to explain it.
But one thing I like you to challenge you is to try and FH flip-kill my ghost serves
You are right, I wouldn't FH flick kill a fly, that part of my game is not yet developed. I dare you to try that crap to my BH wing though, it just might get sent back to China with a stamp on it "Return to Sender" haha.
If your heavy serve is that heavy and low, it isn't the ghost serve that is so close to net and doesn't go out. You need a bounce a few cm over net to get it that short, that is why I say it is not a good serve vs a decent amature. Now it sounds like your version of the ghost serve is a very PROPER low, short heavy underspin serve that makes it difficult for an opponent to commit to an aggressive flip - risk reward might not be favorable for him in that moment. That is one good serve, it also controls opponent's receive options and opens up your 3rd ball attack. You will not get me to doubt the "goodness" of your ghost serve, I just think it is a good regular low/tight short serve.
I say it everywhere. It is important to early on establish that you have a VERY heavy underspin. Sometimes, like you mentioned, you get one put into the net, even from a good amature player. The better ones adjust soon. That is good for me, I want them to adjust, because it sets up the effectiveness of my best serve - the no-spin or light underspin serve if I kept it low and tight like you do Tony. I get so many chances to attack from doing just these two serves, just like I am sure you get.
I can get it to bounce really low and soft, best thign to do is just push it back.
That is a sign of a very high quality proper short serve.I agree that no single serve will ever win you point. It is all about strategy/plan and all the serves, 3rd ball, opponents condition all added together etc
Most time where I used the ghost serve succesful is when the player chop/push the ball directly into the net - they didn't pick up the heavy underspin, or they totally mis-intrepete it and the ball bounce more than 2 times on they side (normally younger unexperience player who see my "heavy" action and thought ball is going long)
That is another sign you do very well with the smoothness and timing/touch of your serve. A sign you have practiced a LOT and it profits you. Of course the better players will do better vs it and of course you use that nicer lower short underspin serve to paralyze them in terms of receive options that enhance your 3rd ball attacking options.
But never the less, I get my students to practice it, so they can understand more about spin and they can use it in any undrespin related touch/control.
I say it time and time again. (I agree with you) There is much profit in developing the ghost serve as it practices the same foundations of timing, touch, impact, first bounce, smooth stroke, the use of all the body, but especially the difficult part of wrist timing/acceleration. Even though the ghost serve as we see on the Ma Lin vid... it is a demo serve and it is a few cm high. Despite this, you do the same thing to make the ghost serve that you must do to make a proper tight low short underspin serve. It is absolutely worthwhile to practice it, that serve can help one develop other killer serves with the same principles of touch and timing.