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it doesn't really matter which rubber you use as long as it suites your style. rubber doesn't win games for the players.
CNT Closed Training 2014 - Video
- Thread starter Tony's Table Tennis
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Just add a note, saying someone chinese from china sometime is and insult >.>
Fyi, china has been listed out why european still far begin, except dima and timo. Few years back, timo is the only one who can consistently put up the same level at any time. But many European players unable to do it. However, 99% of CNT can consistently do this. This is the main gap
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Spot on
There are times the non Chinese can beat the Chinese, but that really requires them to play above par, and maybe the Chinese to play below par
But that isn't happening enough, as Chinese is just far more consistance and they also have a number to back that.
This years WTTTC, besides a weaker number 3 from Germany, the 1 and 2 is the strongest they have ever had. But there is still a gap as both sides play par or above par, the gap with the Chinese is just slightly higher and as we say, ZJK was out, but Ma long was there to hold the fort. XX at number 3, point is also a given.
If it is equipment, special rubber, special blade, etc, non Chinese are not stupid, they will then have Butterfly, Stiga or other companies to make even better products. But for high level players, table tennis is way beyond just equipment
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firstly-you obsessed with H3 and have something against tenergy's or vice versa
secondly-those rubbers are available to public,so if they are available to public,why not pro?
thirdly-stop your senseless arguing
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You get wrong here. Lemme explain some issue here before we continue. I just make a wild imagination here btw H3 n Tenegry.
Timo/Dima standard are almost on par with CNT more or less, right? And after watching countless games between them, I figure it out
than probably is the rubbers that make the slight advantages to CNT players. You can see those matches thru slow-mo. The SPIN from H3.
And you advice me not to crazy over the H3 and I can tell you, I am not. I more like to collect Hinoki blades.That's all.
But,majority forumers here are more obsess rubbers than me, if not there's won't be so many new thread about new rubbers etc. Tuned/Untuned etc
The reason - because we all CURIOUS, and really curious about the rubbers, quality, performances etc. Don't you agree with me? afterall, we all human being,
like to try new things out there ya. Simple as that in order to satisfy the lust and the needs. correct or not?
As you said, focus on training, culture etc instead of equipments. Perfectly fine, but when we reach a certain standard/level, i think the equipments does
help to improve your game as well. Correct or not? I'm open for correction. Like an example, you and your mate, the skills level are indentical, and one using
tier 1 rubbers and you tier 3, which one will prevail? Same like i made an assumption on Timo/Ma Long. I guess the rubbers does some tricks there. A bit.
ITTF does try to slow thing down? No? Banned speed glue, 40mm ball and now POLY. Why? I guess you have the same answer as well.
Due to technology advancements, maybe 2-3 years down to road, another prototype rubbers will counter the effect of Poly
ball.
What happens last year when Jun did not participate some Tour? Why? illegal and tuning rubbers as what i read from internet. And even he said too much SPIN.
And even now I've no idea which party he try to mentioned. My wild guess. China again? H3? All this while, I try to think and figure it out and even have some
chat with other TT players as well about the rubbers and even some agreed the Chinese rubbers does play some part. Not entirely 90%.
Now i will try to answer your questions.
1.I'm not the rubbers manufacturer and I honestly don't know the answer about H3/tenergy performances, consistency and even same goes to others as well.
Even i believe car tires as well. I guess it is not so easy to copy other products. Or rubbers will deteriorate over a certain period of time. I remember,
during speed glue era, every matches, players tend to change new rubbers. Reason? More spin and performances?
2. Top 20... hmmm. How many are using H3? 5 or 10? Different in skills. That's all. As i said, PROBABLY the rubber are not available to EURO and the
rest of the world. Please, I'm taking about NATIONAL version or so-called custom made for CNT and not those you and me can but thru online and commercial.
3. Majority are using H3 or Chinese rubbers on FH, no? You better share with us, since you've some contact with FZD buddy.
I'm sorry, I really make some misunderstanding here what you try to understand my wild imagination here btw H3 n tenergy. And again, I'm not too obsess about
rubbers at all. I just like to analyse games between all players and try to figure it out the issue since I believe all the pros trains super hard to reach that
level and what make the winning and losing a point,game etc, and my OWN conclusions, lie to that piece of rubbers. That's why I asked you. And thank for your
precious opinions and valuable infos. Thank for your time again. Again, I'm a very curious person. At least I like to understand more in depth due to my job.
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Tony,
Mind to share where you come from? But ours ancestors are from China. That's facts. I/We can't change that.
Honestly, I personally don't like China as well.
Mind I ask something? History bout TT.
I remember when China dominate the game during pimples era, suddenly comes Japan with pip-in rubbers.
Japan beat China. Reason - Spin. Not equipment factor here? Correct me if i'm wrong, ok.
Back to 2014, same issue now. Spin. ( from rubbers ). Main weapon as an equipment. Beside, mental strength,
tactics etc must put into consideration as well.
And one more thing, it is not easy to COPY other company products ie the chemicals
compounds added to made a rubbers. If it so easy, you won't here talking to me. If that the case,
since you said so, you're a KING of COKE or KFC. Right. No more secret.
Yes, everyone try to spy one each others but the trade secret remains unknown.
Mind to share where you come from? But ours ancestors are from China. That's facts. I/We can't change that.
Honestly, I personally don't like China as well.
Mind I ask something? History bout TT.
I remember when China dominate the game during pimples era, suddenly comes Japan with pip-in rubbers.
Japan beat China. Reason - Spin. Not equipment factor here? Correct me if i'm wrong, ok.
Back to 2014, same issue now. Spin. ( from rubbers ). Main weapon as an equipment. Beside, mental strength,
tactics etc must put into consideration as well.
And one more thing, it is not easy to COPY other company products ie the chemicals
compounds added to made a rubbers. If it so easy, you won't here talking to me. If that the case,
since you said so, you're a KING of COKE or KFC. Right. No more secret.
Yes, everyone try to spy one each others but the trade secret remains unknown.
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Non Chinese are behind, due to one major issue - MONEY. and that leads to developments, exposure. China has that. I read thru Waldner interview.
And TT aint no 1 sport for them. Same to my country, dici. Here, focus on badminton, football and squash? Any investment for TT?
And for South Africa, all I know and aware of, Rugby. Europen - Football. That's the reason less talents now and even Euro has no idea how to
solved the issue right now. Right. This all news I read thru internet/interviews etc. I prefer a close match instead. One country domination kills
the sport as ITTF try to stop that again & again.
My own opinion again. Bty, Stiga n etc products - quality wise, not as good as before. Honestly. Now too commercial. Talk bout MONEY.
You can see the quality of the blades now compare to 10-20 yrs ago esp woods quality. And lastly, too many fake stuff as well. Thank to China.
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In the days of the first sponge rubbers - yes equipment was an advantage
In the days of the first speed glue player - yes equipment was an advantage
The advantage was there and caused a huge domination.
In those days, TT was a hard bat.
Equipment did play a big role, and it isn't easy to change equipment and still to master the sport - ask WLQ and Ma Lin who became "weaker" players after speed glue ban. LGL simply just couldn't play with other SP since the rule changes during his time - hence he retired very young. Now these are 3 world champion that cannot change due to change of equipment.
But today, only 80% of CNT uses H3 or TG3 national on forehand. Some players uses Tibhar GripS and other tacky rubber.
Yes these are specially prepared - in terms of sponge hardness, size and version. The quality control is better than commerical - but it is not a secret - the more generic one is available to the public through many sources. Same with Butterfly, as Butterfly sponsored players do not use normal commericial version. They get ones that doesn't come in the normal retail packaging and the quality is also greater too! Timo also get the heaviest T05 that Butterfly can make!
Between National H3 - a general public can get (not talking about player's version) - if he/she is willing to pay for it. The special Timo Boll T05 - I don't think general public can get....
The truth is today's equpment is all so advance. Every body is copying from every body. In fact sponge is majority from ESN. In fact H3 even used Tenergy sponge before, but that didn't work out for very long. (Note any top sheet can go with any sponge)
But it doesn't mean equipment is the dominating factor today, compared to the days of speed glue vs non speed glue, or sponge vs non sponge. The comparison is totally different.
Today, you have CNT, HKG, SIN and many European/American based players using national or provincial version H3, and they still can't beat your top Tenergy players. But then you can get a soso sponge player and he can beat the best "hard bat" player. This is just an example on how out your equipment with yester years is with today.
Today Dima and Timo are on par with Top Chinese, and are better than over 15 to 20 of CNT A team players is because they are talented and training more than other non Chinese players. The culture, structure etc made it all happen - even with less money compared to CNT structure. This proves that it isn't impossible to make another Waldner, or Timo, it is difficult but not impossible. So the question isn't about equpment but rather how they got Waldner, Timo in the first place, and how can you times that solution by 10 and make a bigger force to challenge CNT and other Asian countries.
There are many CNT players who use your super rubber, and could not make it, it is because they are not better in terms of table tennis skills, and no matter what super rubber they use, they won't make the cut and to challenge Dima and Timo.
Yes, equipment is important, but it is how you use the equipment that counts more.
It is not sponge vs hard bat days any more.....
In the days of the first speed glue player - yes equipment was an advantage
The advantage was there and caused a huge domination.
In those days, TT was a hard bat.
Equipment did play a big role, and it isn't easy to change equipment and still to master the sport - ask WLQ and Ma Lin who became "weaker" players after speed glue ban. LGL simply just couldn't play with other SP since the rule changes during his time - hence he retired very young. Now these are 3 world champion that cannot change due to change of equipment.
But today, only 80% of CNT uses H3 or TG3 national on forehand. Some players uses Tibhar GripS and other tacky rubber.
Yes these are specially prepared - in terms of sponge hardness, size and version. The quality control is better than commerical - but it is not a secret - the more generic one is available to the public through many sources. Same with Butterfly, as Butterfly sponsored players do not use normal commericial version. They get ones that doesn't come in the normal retail packaging and the quality is also greater too! Timo also get the heaviest T05 that Butterfly can make!
Between National H3 - a general public can get (not talking about player's version) - if he/she is willing to pay for it. The special Timo Boll T05 - I don't think general public can get....
The truth is today's equpment is all so advance. Every body is copying from every body. In fact sponge is majority from ESN. In fact H3 even used Tenergy sponge before, but that didn't work out for very long. (Note any top sheet can go with any sponge)
But it doesn't mean equipment is the dominating factor today, compared to the days of speed glue vs non speed glue, or sponge vs non sponge. The comparison is totally different.
Today, you have CNT, HKG, SIN and many European/American based players using national or provincial version H3, and they still can't beat your top Tenergy players. But then you can get a soso sponge player and he can beat the best "hard bat" player. This is just an example on how out your equipment with yester years is with today.
Today Dima and Timo are on par with Top Chinese, and are better than over 15 to 20 of CNT A team players is because they are talented and training more than other non Chinese players. The culture, structure etc made it all happen - even with less money compared to CNT structure. This proves that it isn't impossible to make another Waldner, or Timo, it is difficult but not impossible. So the question isn't about equpment but rather how they got Waldner, Timo in the first place, and how can you times that solution by 10 and make a bigger force to challenge CNT and other Asian countries.
There are many CNT players who use your super rubber, and could not make it, it is because they are not better in terms of table tennis skills, and no matter what super rubber they use, they won't make the cut and to challenge Dima and Timo.
Yes, equipment is important, but it is how you use the equipment that counts more.
It is not sponge vs hard bat days any more.....
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Just to say here. Pro versions on Tenergy in available from some sources. They cost nearly 120 USD. But i'm not sure they are the heaviest.
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I know what you are talking about. I don't trust those ones though.
You get Pro Tenergy for sponsored players, then you can special Tenergy with players names on.
I am asuming the USD120 for sale is either normal retail or sponsored players one
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I'm totally understand what you trying to tell me,honestly. Just player like Ma Long or ZJK, can beat Timo/Dima with with lil bit help
from the rubbers as what I suggest (not outside top 10). Period.
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I'm actually wondering, how does Para players train, I haven't been following Para, only abled body
I heard something about 1 to 2 or 3 practice partner per Para player in China
Other than that, do you know how top Para players train?
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I would love to hear more about how Para train in China. Their methods are successful - esp. since they got the Olympics & Paralympics in 2008. Look at their Class Singles results in the last 3 Paralympic Games (players are classified so that one plays against similarly abled players):
I'm actually wondering, how does Para players train, I haven't been following Para, only abled body
I heard something about 1 to 2 or 3 practice partner per Para player in China
Other than that, do you know how top Para players train?
ATHENS 2004 M: 1 Gold (M4) 1 Silver (M9) 1 Bronze (M10)
ATHENS 2004 W: 3 Gold (F5, F6-8, F9) 2 Silver (F5, F9) 1 Bronze (F10)
BEIJING 2008 M: 3 Gold (M3, M8, M9-10) 2 Silver (M7, M9-10)
BEIJING 2008 W: 5 Gold (F1-2, F3, F4, F5, F9) 3 Silver (F5, F9, F10) 2 Bronze (F9, F10)
LONDON 2012 M: 3 Gold (M3, M8, M9) 3 Silver (M4, M5, M10)
LONDON 2012 F: 5 Gold (F1-2, F4, F5, F8, F9) 2 Silver (F5, F10) 2 Bronze (F9, F10)
Tony I wil send you a PM in this regard.
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To master table tennis is pretty simple.
Its which stroke to use, when to use it, and how to use it.
Accuracy, Consistancy comes first, then follow by speed and spin.
China just has a TT structure where the Para and Able body players can train full time. The structure will employ coaches and training staff, so these players are expose to TT full time - a full working day and can get reward financially. I am not sure how reward Para is, so i'm keeping it as training for now.
I spent 3 months in a training centre in Taichuang once, that is also the base for the Chinese Taipei, wheel chair players.
From what I witness, training 7 days a week - all in the evening, as those people work during the day.
Nearby sports school (university players - all have the level to be SA champion) are the practice partners. The ratio is 1 to 1, one wheelchair player to 1 practice partner. I recall the training partners had shifts, so I didn't see the same one every day.
As I was training seperatly, I couldn't see what they were doing. I recall it was around 2 hours every night.
The centre had over 30 tables
This was around 14 years ago.
In countries other than your Asians, we need to follow the USA way (check your PM).
USA privately gotten 70 full time centres, with no help from any body. Few people wanted TT to become they lives, and they made it happen.
Result today is top 10 Cadets, Juniors in the world, include Ariel in Super League and Lily causing the most upsets in Tokyo
Sport should always be private - look at how Kevin Andersen did in Tennis, if he waited for Tennis SA, he would not be world top 20 player.
USA sport is private, and look at the end result - NBA, MBL, Tennis, Swimming etc
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