I'm not saying it, but I'm thinking it.

fais · Aug 4, 2014

IMHO FZD may have used steroids. Comparing his built to Dima's, his waist, legs and jawline seem unnatural developed for a TT player (a 15 yr old at that...and not to mention that power). I'm not to saying it's impossible for him to be completely natural (kinda like a Lebron James), but it appears more likely to me that he may be juicing/have juiced at some point (again, kinda like Lebron James).

Extreme example and more info on the physical effects of steroids: http://fitnessblackbook.com/anabolic-steroids/skull-growth-and-other-nasty-side-effects-of-steroids/

Butt Stallion · Aug 4, 2014

LMAO!!! That little kid? Never, hes just fat and because of sooooooo much sport it looks like muscles. But its not, hes chubby and this has nothing to do with steorids...

Amayzde · Aug 4, 2014

Some people just naturally have thicker legs, I have thick legs aswell and my legs are naturally stronger than other peoples legs.

TTFrenzy · Aug 4, 2014

Steroids are useless in table tennis, end of story

Even in an imaginary world where TT demanded extreme physical abilities, the money from sponsors/events/teams are not worth risking. In pro TT level the differences in technique speed and strength are too small to be decided by steroids and in the end, the most calm composed and better tactician wins the game. If the game wasnt mostly mental then we wouldnt have players like Ruy/Waldner/Kreanga/ZJK/ML/WH. If we compare those players at their prime with players like JMS/Primorac/Korbel/Ma Wenge we will see that judging them from a technique/speed point of view, no one can say that Waldner was much faster or had the Best FH in the world. But he was the best when it mattered the most, same thing for Wang Hao ZJK etc etc. The players in the 2nd list had their chances and failed to achieve something big.Maybe they were unlucky, maybe they succumb under pressure, who knows. Truth is that they didnt won the titles compared to the players in the 1st list just because other players used better training methods or taking steroids

p.s. If he takes steroids then how do you explain that Vladi (38 years old) made FZD look like a fool in the first 3 sets in the German open? In the following sets FZD adjusted changed his tactics and won easily which provides more proof that the game is mostly mental, besides some players are selected to pass tests for steroids in every tournament and only Ovtcharov was found by accident to be using them but in the end he was proved not guilty. (He ate chinese meat and they day after some chemical substances were found in high percentage in his body but not enough to prove that he was taking steroids)

Rory · Aug 4, 2014

FZD has a nickname that is used by the rest of the CNT and it translates to mean chubby one, or chubby something or other.

Der_Echte · Aug 4, 2014

So is Wang Hao, no secret.

However, many TT athletes have HUGE upper legs from all their training and that is no joke.

fais · Aug 4, 2014

TTFrenzy said:
Steroids are useless in table tennis, end of story Even in an imaginary world where TT demanded extreme physical abilities, the money from sponsors/events/teams are not worth risking. In pro TT level the differences in technique speed and strength are too small to be decided by steroids and in the end, the most calm composed and better tactician wins the game. If the game wasnt mostly mental then we wouldnt have players like Ruy/Waldner/Kreanga/ZJK/ML/WH. If we compare those players at their prime with players like JMS/Primorac/Korbel/Ma Wenge we will see that judging them from a technique/speed point of view, no one can say that Waldner was much faster or had the Best FH in the world. But he was the best when it mattered the most, same thing for Wang Hao ZJK etc etc. The players in the 2nd list had their chances and failed to achieve something big.Maybe they were unlucky, maybe they succumb under pressure, who knows. Truth is that they didnt won the titles compared to the players in the 1st list just because other players used better training methods or taking steroids

p.s. If he takes steroids then how do you explain that Vladi (38 years old) made FZD look like a fool in the first 3 sets in the German open? In the following sets FZD adjusted changed his tactics and won easily which provides more proof that the game is mostly mental, besides some players are selected to pass tests for steroids in every tournament and only Ovtcharov was found by accident to be using them but in the end he was proved not guilty. (He ate chinese meat and they day after some chemical substances were found in high percentage in his body but not enough to prove that he was taking steroids)

Hey TTFrenzy allow me to explain why I think TT players like FZD absolutely stand to benefit from steroids. Let me first preface my explanation with this - taking steroids does not grant athletes super powers/skills, i.e. steroids wont make FZD unbeatable. The purpose of anabolic steroids (as abused by athletes in many sports) is simple: up your recovery time between workouts. Meaning, a substantial increase in both frequency and intensity of one's workout. Steroids didn't make babe ruth an amazing player, but it certainly gave him the edge when it came to generating split-second power.

1) FZD is a backhand heavy player. Backhand strokes are generally considered weaker than forehand. By developing a stronger (than natural) lower core, legs and arms, FZD can undoubtedly increase his speed and power to compensate for these shortcomings.

2)FZD doesn't need to be currently taking steroids in order to benefit either. Is it not probable that during the early stages of his training, he took them to help develop abnormally strong core/legs/arms while maintaining an intense/rigid training routine? Look at the change in his physique from this: http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/3bc674a4jw1e3tp424u77j20a60dmmy6.jpg (he has a sleek/streamlined physique)
to this: http://tabletennisonline.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=455;image (bigger arms, heavier core, massive legs, swolen jawline)

3) TT is absolutely a physically intensive sport. How does a A 16/17 year old player like FZD with drastically less time invested in physical development compared to 20+ yr old players like ma long/xu xin/ZJK manage to not only keep up with them but even outperform them in terms of sheer brute strength and quickness? Im not saying its not possible, i just think that amount of gains in such a short time is not normal, and his overall physical development doesn't match his capacity.

fais · Aug 4, 2014

agreed Der_Echte, but both Wang Hao and FZD look 30 in terms of physically maturity... the difference being wang hao is actually 30.

TTFrenzy · Aug 5, 2014

fais said:
Hey TTFrenzy allow me to explain why I think TT players like FZD absolutely stand to benefit from steroids. Let me first preface my explanation with this - taking steroids does not grant athletes super powers/skills, i.e. steroids wont make FZD unbeatable. The purpose of anabolic steroids (as abused by athletes in many sports) is simple: up your recovery time between workouts. Meaning, a substantial increase in both frequency and intensity of one's workout. Steroids didn't make babe ruth an amazing player, but it certainly gave him the edge when it came to generating split-second power.

1) FZD is a backhand heavy player. Backhand strokes are generally considered weaker than forehand. By developing a stronger (than natural) lower core, legs and arms, FZD can undoubtedly increase his speed and power to compensate for these shortcomings.

2)FZD doesn't need to be currently taking steroids in order to benefit either. Is it not probable that during the early stages of his training, he took them to help develop abnormally strong core/legs/arms while maintaining an intense/rigid training routine? Look at the change in his physique from this: http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/3bc674a4jw1e3tp424u77j20a60dmmy6.jpg (he has a sleek/streamlined physique)
to this: http://tabletennisonline.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=206.0;attach=455;image (bigger arms, heavier core, massive legs, swolen jawline)

3) TT is absolutely a physically intensive sport. How does a A 16/17 year old player like FZD with drastically less time invested in physical development compared to 20+ yr old players like ma long/xu xin/ZJK manage to not only keep up with them but even outperform them in terms of sheer brute strength and quickness? Im not saying its not possible, i just think that amount of gains in such a short time is not normal, and his overall physical development doesn't match his capacity.

1. I know those facts about steroids, but this method that you mention is used by weightlifters,strongmen and bodybuilders. TT is an aerobic sport that requires energy,explosive strength and agility. Do you know any steroid that provide agility+strength together?

2.Im not a doctor to know if a teenager can use steroids, those photos that you post dont seem to have much of a difference, besides the in the 1st one the camera is 2x the distance compared to the 1st one so no one can tell if his muscle groups grew much faster than normal. Growing muscles fast while a teenager is a normal thing combined with weight training, testosterone and hormone levels are sky high when a man is a teenager

3.I dont think FZD is faster than ML or ZJK, one thing is for sure that he has extremely talented footwork and regains his balance fast after a stroke which is extremely important in TT. ZJK and ML were just as fast as FZD was at his age, its just that we didnt knew them because it was the era of Wang Hao Ma Lin and WLQ. ZJK and ML had several wins against them in the CSTTL/chinese trial when they were at they age of FZD, just like FZD does right now. People have a hard time understanding it and this fact has its explanation. The chinese national team didnt trust youngsters so much in the past, but since 2007 and after 2008 olympics they started giving them chances in pro tours.

Im not saying he doesnt take steroids, im saying he does not need to. We will never(? ) learn the truth, unless we learn the chinese training programs and their evolution after the 2004 olympics, which was a turning point in their training routines

Cheers

dio_hgw · Aug 5, 2014

Think of it, say it, but it is just an assumption, based on...nothing. Not every man is the same. There are people 1.60m tall and people 2.10m tall, there are skinny people and 150kg kids, also muscular density can vary etc. Making an assumption myself, I believe that people in the CNT would be the first to know if FZD is using steroids or something illegal, or something outside their programm and they would have banned FZD. They have so many top players that they wouldn't risk their reputation and everyone's respect and admiration.

elrigo99 · Aug 5, 2014

I think that in all the tournaments he did at least once he had to pass the urine tests. Now I don't know whether steroids are detectable or not but personally I doubt he has used any type of drugs.

mahomedy13 · Aug 5, 2014

then with this assumption,ma long beat timo boll when he was 16 because of steroids?

Tony's Table Tennis · Aug 5, 2014

FZD, Wang Hao, Wang Zhen (Canada) all have the same built
I can name more, but i'm sure you guys get the point.

Now take that built and add in 40 hours of physical training a week for 10 years and you get FZD built at age 15/16.

Also laugh with and agreeing with TTfrenzy, steriods doesnt work in table tennis.

Then on the note how a 15/16 years old can beat players age 20+?
Then based on this assumption alone, can we say the same for 13 year old Mima Ito of Japan who won U18 titles....in fact she was still 12 when she first won them. A 14/15 year old Khanak Jha of the USA also on steriod?
TT is a sport where age is not the key factor.

The only doubt in FZD is just the age issue.
Regarding steriods, China has they own banned drugged/sustance program, as well as the ITTF and ATTU.

fais · Aug 5, 2014

i should have probably clarified, by steroids i mean illegal performance ehancing drugs.

fais · Aug 5, 2014

mahomedy13 said:
then with this assumption,ma long beat timo boll when he was 16 because of steroids?

you've missing the point. Perf. enhancing drugs don't guarantee you victory. Watching ma long play at 16 and I saw a 16 yr ol playing with speed and athleticism. Watching FZD play ma long I saw a kid with thick trunk, massive legs, seemingly unnatural itensity to stamina ratio keeping up with that same 16 yr old plus an extra 10 yrs of same physical training as FZD.

mahomedy13 · Aug 5, 2014

what about xx?where did he get the energy and ability to execute so much power in shots at such a young age.and the footwork!he also taking perf. Enhancing drugs?...

fais · Aug 5, 2014

dio_hgw said:
Think of it, say it, but it is just an assumption, based on...nothing. Not every man is the same. There are people 1.60m tall and people 2.10m tall, there are skinny people and 150kg kids, also muscular density can vary etc. Making an assumption myself, I believe that people in the CNT would be the first to know if FZD is using steroids or something illegal, or something outside their programm and they would have banned FZD. They have so many top players that they wouldn't risk their reputation and everyone's respect and admiration.

Muscle growth takes A LOT of time...especially for his legs to go from the size in the before pic to the after pic. This assumption is based on the fact that his physical growth reflects the effects of anab. steroids. i.e swolen jaw, thick neck, thick and waist, abnormally large hips and legs, swollen head. He looks like a rock and floats like a feather. If you didn't get get the chance too, do Look at the article I postd earlier.

fais · Aug 5, 2014

mahomedy13 said:
what about xx?where did he get the energy and ability to execute so much power in shots at such a young age.and the footwork!he also taking perf. Enhancing drugs?...

His footwork matches his physique. The guy is 6ft with a massive wing span, and he weighs a mere 150 pounds. His style is (was?) forehand centric, and we all know that the chinese/hungarian style of straight arm loop is notorius for generating power. Even his fingers are much longer than avg, giving him the added advantage in generating power. His physique is streamlined to match his style... yet the ONLY advantage xx has over FZD is experience, and that too doesn't seem enough.

Tony's Table Tennis · Aug 5, 2014

fais said:
i should have probably clarified, by steroids i mean illegal performance ehancing drugs.

So you are believing there is illegal performance enhancing drugs because FZD has waist, legs and jawline that seem unnatural developed for a TT player.
I think steriods will make your claim more likely, but performace drugs which leads to his body builds....hm...okay, good luck with your debate

Tinykin · Aug 5, 2014

FZD is small compared to a 16yo Maradona

I can't vouch for FZD but some people are naturally very big in body proportion from waist down. I am like that.
It was made worse by me being a wicket-keeper and cyclist as a youngster. I didn't have the size of FZD up top (never used the gym) but I was certainly bigger below the waist at his age.
Of course, this was 45 years ago.
Also, have a look at videos or photos of Maradona as a 15-16 yo. Again, FZD can't compare in trunk size. I remember watching live on TV one of Maradona's first internationals (he was 16) and one commentator said that he was going to have movement trouble in his 20's because of his large trunk. Time proved that commentator very wrong.

I'm not saying it, but I'm thinking it.

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